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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE's love-hate relationship with the Mainstream
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Spiraling_Shape
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 3 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
Hey no one posts here anymore outside of PPV predictions and this whole story is frustrating/dumb so let's have a conversation!

So if you haven't heard, WWE is telling its wrestlers that it wants a piece of their Twitch stream revenue... even though they're "independent contractors" and it's all being done on their own in their personal lives. You aren't watching "Cesaro" play Call of Duty, you're watching Claudio Castagnoli. (caveat - I don't 100% understand how you make money off Twitch.) Apparently Zelina Vega put her foot down about this and got released over it (then tweeted immediately that she believes in unions). So, of course, WWE wants to be a part of this new way their wrestlers are getting their name out into the world (because there's money to be made).

Except - the VERY same day, one of the faces of the company made her acting debut in arguably the buzziest TV show of the moment in the largest pop culture franchise of all time. And...crickets from WWE? They don't want to promote Sasha Banks in The Mandalorian? Is it because she's credited under her real name and not "WWE Superstar Sasha Banks?" Because it isn't a WWE Film? They totally whiffed on promoting Batista in GOTG too. Cluelessness on Vince's part of the larger entertainment world?

Thoughts? Other than hoping Andrew Yang gets a position in the Biden Administration and makes good on his promise to go after Vince and the "independent contractor" label?
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Kevintripod
Banger








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 7 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.30
Yeah, when I saw Sasha Banks appear on 'The Mandalorian' it blew my mind.

I immediately thought to myself "Why the hell didn't the WWE ever mention this???". I couldn't believe it.
Tenken347
Knackwurst








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 4 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.40
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    Yeah, when I saw Sasha Banks appear on 'The Mandalorian' it blew my mind.

    I immediately thought to myself "Why the hell didn't the WWE ever mention this???". I couldn't believe it.


I wonder if she negotiated it herself, outside of her WWE contract. Especially if she managed to retain sole rights on it. That wouldn't give WWE any stake in it themselves, so they wouldn't really get anything out of promoting Mercedes Justine Kaestner-Varnado.

Personally, I think this was really, really fucking stupid of WWE to do. The "independent contractor" bit has always been laughably paper-thin, and this pushes the issue as to how much of the talent's time and pursuits they control. Now, they've got SAG breathing down their necks, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the wrestlers wind up in that union (at least the ones in WWE and AEW, and maybe IMPACT as well) within a few years. I know profits are lean right now, but this short-term, small-picture thinking is going to bite the company.


(edited by Tenken347 on 17.11.20 1147)
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.61
Isn't it primarily a matter of the timing of the thing?

Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org) tells me that filming of season 2 of The Mandalorian was between October 2019 to March 2020. The edict about Twitch/Cameo/etc was quite recent. No reason Vince should push The Mandalorian if he didn't get paid to. But the proverbial horse was out of the barn as far as her being in the show.

The fun factoid regarding Sasha specifically is that timeframe overlaps the interval when she was "gone". Wikipedia elsewhere (en.wikipedia.org) reminds me there was that whole weird thing where she was off TV entirely for 4 months -- whatever all that weirdness was all about. So ... no telling what actually happened behind the scenes.

As to the whole Twitch/Cameo/etc prohibition in general ... Yeah, that's total bullshit. However, it's pretty much consistent with other long-standing policies. For example, IIRC, if Con organizers (eg a "Comic Con" type organization) want to book a current WWE talent, the Con has to go through WWE & pay their exorbitant fees. Hence why that rarely happens.

Anybody know when Caesaro's contract expires? :-)
Spiraling_Shape
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 3 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
    Originally posted by emma
    Isn't it primarily a matter of the timing of the thing?

    Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org) tells me that filming of season 2 of The Mandalorian was between October 2019 to March 2020. The edict about Twitch/Cameo/etc was quite recent. No reason Vince should push The Mandalorian if he didn't get paid to. But the proverbial horse was out of the barn as far as her being in the show.

    The fun factoid regarding Sasha specifically is that timeframe overlaps the interval when she was "gone". Wikipedia elsewhere (en.wikipedia.org) reminds me there was that whole weird thing where she was off TV entirely for 4 months -- whatever all that weirdness was all about. So ... no telling what actually happened behind the scenes.

    As to the whole Twitch/Cameo/etc prohibition in general ... Yeah, that's total bullshit. However, it's pretty much consistent with other long-standing policies. For example, IIRC, if Con organizers (eg a "Comic Con" type organization) want to book a current WWE talent, the Con has to go through WWE & pay their exorbitant fees. Hence why that rarely happens.

    Anybody know when Caesaro's contract expires? :-)



Oh I'm just noting this all happened the same day and in many circles, Twitch *is* the mainstream.

Even if WWE isn't getting a cut from Disney Plus, it's still one of the faces of the company and its champions that could be getting them good publicity for getting such a high-profile acting role. Vince always craves that mainstream acceptance from ESPN, Good Morning America, etc...except when he doesn't want it handed it to him on a silver platter here.

And the difference between comic con autograph signings is that they're actually there working as a WWE Talent. But their Twitch streams are under their own names and on their own time. Like I sorta said earlier, you're paying for an autograph from WWE Superstar Cesaro but watching Claudio Castignoli playing video games on Twitch.
dMp
Knackwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 1 day
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.85
This just shows you what type of weird world wrestling is and how everyone involved is used to this abusive "independent contractor" relationship.

But to be honest, I get the WWE's point of view.
I doubt Allen, Claudio or Thea would get more than a handful of viewers if there wasn't a built-in audience for them.

But AJ, Cesaro or Zelina gets thousands of people watching them (paying them?) and worshipping them on a huge platform. Indirectly the talents are profiting from their fame and indirectly they are representing WWE even though they don't act like it.

But ofcourse it's insane that WWE won't allow (even fires) someone because they do sideprojects.
But we knew that, considering the copyrights they put on people's names and such.
You'd think if they do write a few simple "guidelines" it shouldn't be a problem. It'll build up your fan base even more if you let them play and do their thing.

The other subject, Sasha on the Mandalorian.
I'm sure WWE reasons there's no point in promoting it because it doesn't give them more viewers or doesn't put money in their pocket. But it gives them so much more Cool points. So much credibility. "Our superstars are awesome enough to be in this kick ass tv show" (not to mention Batista in the MCU)
Hell, they should pay Disney to have Sasha wear Mando based attire just so they can bring it up again and again. It boosts the prestige of the crazy carny business by a lot even though Vince doesn't see it.






Toast Jr
Kolbasz








Since: 30.1.03
From: Stafford Springs, CT

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.08
Apparently it was Sasha's appearance on Hot Ones that got her on The Madalorian, (io9.gizmodo.com)not her WWE work. If she didn't land the role from something WWE related/owned, I can see them not wanting to promote it.




It's the most important meal of the day.
http://toomuchbreakfast.tumblr.com/
Kevintripod
Banger








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 7 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.30
So I guess WWE gets a cut of that Xavier Woods UpUpDownDown money?
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.61
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    So I guess WWE gets a cut of that Xavier Woods UpUpDownDown money?
Well ... Given that all of Click Here (uuddshop.com) has "Terms & Conditions" & "Copyright" links that point to WWE & WWE Shop, I'd say yeah. At least Xavier is getting to do something he loves to do.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 6 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.93
It wasn't long ago that WWE promoted its wrestlers every time they appeared in mainstream media, be it Playboy appearances, Tonight Show, or the cover of ESPN or Men's Magazine. I don't get it.



"Caring about the lives of other people really limits one's strategic options."
--Belkar Bitterleaf, The Order of the Stick

Certified RFMC Member-- Ask To See My Credentials!

Co-Winner of Time's Person of the Year Award, 2006

Dionysus
Bockwurst








Since: 10.7.11
From: San Francisco, CA

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 9 min.
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.57
I imagine WWE's argument would be that Twitch (an Amazon subsidiary) is going to have a lot more bargaining power in negotiating a revenue share against an independent WWE wrestler. If WWE and Amazon (or one of Amazon's competitors) come to terms on a deal, the revenue share going to WWE would be significantly higher, which in theory could result in the wrestlers overall getting a higher amount.
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