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The W - Hockey - Why im happy Toronto lost (Page 2)
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The Masked Hungarian
Pickled pork

Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

Since last post: 6239 days
Last activity: 6239 days
#21 Posted on
Are you actually yelling at your computer while typing? Stop trying to cut a promo and save the dramatics. All we're doing is discussing hockey, not the Middle East.

So Wayne Gretzky and Pat Quinn were not being thrashed by the Canadian media after their first loss? Were you only reading your local newspaper? Do you get ESPN or TSN?

For the record I played baseball and football from 8 to college. So yes I HAVE played in tense playoff games. It wasn't like Quinn convinced the team to play a trapping style. What exactly did he convince Joe Sakic to do? Goi out there and use your talents??? Michael Peca WAS asked about Quinn in the New York papers and refused to even comment on the man. Apparently his opinion of him isn't as high as yours.

Wasn't Toronto in the conference finals in 93? It's not like Quinn took over the Islanders after 8 horrible seasons and rebuilt the franchise. When was the last time the Leafs missed the playoffs? And notice I didn't comment AT ALL on his GM work. Why? Because he made some great moves. No i was arguing that the man CAN'T COACH! Two very different jobs.

HOW can you compare Dallas in the West to Toronto in the East??? I believe Dallas was in a MUCH more competitive conference, as opposed to the Eastern Conference where no one wanted to be that 8th seed until Montreal got in at the end.

All this series did was show the casual NHL viewer that skill and sportsmanship does not apply in the playoffs. The NHL wants to succeed right? They want to make money and draw ratings? There is no other sport that allows one team to take out key members of the other team. If that's the case Jason Collins should just stomp on Shaq's big toe. After all, if you can't beat a team straight up, just take them out. Hell, Steve Webb should have just taken out Cujo's knee and it would have been fine cause this is the playoffs and its a war!

You can call it bitching and whining all you want but facts are facts. Darcy Tucker SAID he was going to take out Peca and he did. Gary Roberts skated 90 feet and slammed Kenny Jonnson's head into the boards with his elbows giving him another concussion. Shayne Corson KICKED Eric Cairns. If the NHL had suspended all 3 of them and THEN the Leafs beat the Islanders in 7 I would have nothing to say. Unfortunately the league looked the other way on the first two until they HAD to do something to Corson. The title of this thread is WHY IM HAPPY TORONTO LOST. For all these reasons, IM HAPPY!

Since: 13.2.02
From: Back in the Heart of Hali

Since last post: 1384 days
Last activity: 33 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.46

    So Wayne Gretzky and Pat Quinn were not being thrashed by the Canadian media after their first loss? Were you only reading your local newspaper? Do you get ESPN or TSN?

The media I saw went after the players for lack of effort, not Quinn. Herb Brooks was the one who called Canada's strategy ``stupid.'' What medal did the US win again? Quinn's strategy was remarkably similar to the classic ``dump and chase'' style that nobody thought could work in the modern international game. Quinn knew it could; but he had to convince talented puck-handlers like Sakic, Yzerman, Lemieux and others to dump the puck and then punish the defenders (something they generally don't do with their NHL clubs). Quinn was vindicated by winning the gold.

So your original statement should have read, ``Any team with Cujo and Sundin should get in (as long as they're in the Eastern Conference).'' Interesting revision. So four future hall-of-famers who've won cups in the West <= two future hall of famers who haven't won cups in the East. Yes, the West is a tighter conference. But if you can build a conference-winning team around two players and a Coach in the East, the Rangers would have blown everyone away. So would the Flyers.

Pierre Laviolette is a coach. Coaches do not ``rebuild franchises,'' especially not in their first few seasons. That's the GMs job. Laviolette has taken over a team that's been built masterfully by Mike Milbury. Laviolette's the one that's got to take what Milbury's done and turn it into playoff results. This year he was unable to do it. You can blame the Leafs, or the league, if you like. I'm sure Milbury and the Islanders brass are instead going to review their team and make adjustments. I don't see them leaving things as they are and just whining about how they were screwed.

Let's look at Quinn's record:
- One of only three men to receive the Jack Adams award as coach of the year with at least two different teams.
- Led the 1999-2000 Leafs to their first division title since '62-63.
- Selected as head coach of the Gold Medal Winning 2002 Canadian Olympic Men's Hockey Team.
- Selected as coach of the North American all-stars in the 50th annual all-star game.
- Has led two teams to the Stanley Cup finals ('79-80 Flyers and '93-94 Canucks).
- Coached the Canucks to franchise records for season wins and points after 11 losing seasons.
- Coached this year's Leafs to the second-best record in the East, one point behind Boston.

You keep obstinately saying ``Quinn can't coach.'' I hope someday that I can be as bad at my job as you believe Quinn to be at his. And just so you don't have to mention it again, yes, Quinn left Gary Roberts off the lineup sheet in a playoff game. I look at the above list, and I look at that mistake and I think the list speaks for itself.

As for other leagues, I've seen NBA players trying to take eachother out this year; it certainly looked like Kobe Bryant was trying to send a message with his elbows to Mike Bibby in game 6 of that series. Meanwhile, Bibby took the foul. Welcome to the playoffs; it ain't pretty.

And Facts? The only facts I am aware of are these:
- no suspensions were handed out by the league to either team other than to Corson for his kick.
- Toronto beat New York.

It's one thing to be happy that Toronto lost (hell, I was happy that Toronto lost, because it meant Carolina won). Plenty of people were disappointed about their team losing. But you're the first person to come in here and whine and whine and whine about ``they CHEATED, and their coach sucks, and they CHEATED and they're a weak team anyway, and they CHEATED.'' If you can't accept what happened, stop watching; the NHL doesn't need fans who are convinced that conspiracies abound against their team.

The New York Islanders are a strong young team with a smart young coach who are only going to get better in the next couple years. I assure you, those guys aren't sitting at home looking back and thinking they got ripped off -- they're looking ahead to next year when they can show everyone they're a better team than Toronto. I, for one, am going to enjoy watching them strive to prove that.

I'm a disturbed and bitter herb, like salt water and parsley... -- Prince Paul
The Masked Hungarian
Pickled pork

Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

Since last post: 6239 days
Last activity: 6239 days
#23 Posted on
My last reply

What revision are we talking about? My original statement was:

"How can you say that no other coach would have gotten Toronto into the playoffs?? Any team with Cujo and Sundin should get in!"

Last time I checked, Toronto isn't moving back to the West. Toronto has Cujo and Sundin. The East is a weak conference. Therefore Toronto SHOULD make the playoffs. I never said anything about winning the conference. Dallas does not have four hall of famers. Modano and Hatcher yes. Belfour maybe. Jason Arnott???

I never insinuated that Laviolette built the Islanders. What I was referring to was Pat Quinn did not "save" Toronto. While the situation was not golden, it was not as bleak as say the Islanders were. Pat Quinn GM, great job. I have never argued his ability to see talent.

CMON! Kobe Bryant was not trying to take out Bibby. Bryant was trying to get to the inbound pass. Of course he threw a vicious elbow, but it was not with the intent to take out Bibby. To suggest that goes against your statements of the countless unseen cheap shots that take place in the playoffs. You cannot name another instance because none have taken place. Only in the NHL can playoff games be decided by injuring the other team.

I'm the only person on the board to say this because....I'm the only Islanders fan on this board! If this happened to the Rangers I'm sure plenty of people would speak up because there are more Rangers fans. Plain and simple.

So yes, the Islanders won't sit back in the offseason.(thank God for Kumar and Wang) Milbury will add probably an enforcer or two. Hopefully next year none of this will happen and an elimination (if/when) will be much easier to swallow.
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