I doubt you will believe that, since we're so sure she's terrible ::eyeroll::. Me however, ALWAYS knows that VINCE is the real go to guy. He runs the place, he gives the thumbs up to what goes on TV, he signs the checks, he can't keep his libido in check, etc, etc...
I, like I said, don't really have a problem with Steph too much. She has done administrative things before she was asked to join creative (from what I read). Anyway, you decide on that topic, while I continue to twiddle my thumbs, waiting for that damn AJW tape....
The blame has always been aimed at Vince. It might not always have been direct, but its been pointed at decisions he's made: XFL, giving his daughter the crayon to book with, screwing up WCW, screwing up everything else along the way. Vince is a 60 year old man (whose face looks older than Blassie's) who is starting to show his age. Unfortunately, now we are stuck with split personality Vince: On one show, he's trying to take us back to 1985 when he was successful to show us what a success he was and how it all revolved around him. On the other show, he is taking us back to the mid 90's when the company was a disaster area and trying to demonstrate that the people who the fans didn't care about when they were younger and healthier can succeed now because Vince is focused on them rather than recovering from his federal trial. The best thing for the company right now is to put Vince on a 6 month cruise with no means to contact the home office.
I consider the switch from Pathetic to Loser to be a promotion.
Eh, I still blame Steph for Jamie Knoble's banishment to jobber-land. Nidia's "too fat" (back when Steph was twice the size she is now) so Knoble gets jobbed out.
Originally posted by redsoxnationThe blame has always been aimed at Vince. It might not always have been direct, but its been pointed at decisions he's made.......giving his daughter the crayon to book with.
So you read an article that suggests that Stephanie does little more than organise meetings for creative staff, and then you post that Stephanie has the book. M'kay...
Originally posted by Spaceman SpiffI still blame Steph for Jamie Knoble's banishment to jobber-land. Nidia's "too fat" (back when Steph was twice the size she is now) so Knoble gets jobbed out.
Ignoring the fact that theres arguably much better 'cruiserweights' out there (tajiri, Rey, Matt, Kendrick) the story could just have easily been reported as Nidia being told that she needed to work on her conditioning because her performances weren't up to scratch.
Regardless, Steph's weight is irrelevant given that she's, you know, not a wrestler. You think that if say, Donovan McNabb turned up for preseason 50 pounds overweight that Andy Reid would be out of line for benching him?
For what its worth I'd go along with the idea that Steph takes way to much flak. Some of the 'all that is good is/was Heyman, all that is bad is Steph' shit is ridiculous, and personally I quite enjoy her current TV role.
(edited by dMr on 21.5.03 1920) "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
Ignoring the fact that theres arguably much better 'cruiserweights' out there (tajiri, Rey, Matt, Kendrick)
I stand by my belief that Knoble is one of the better all-around guys on either roster. He's a great bumper, a great seller, he can keep it on the mat, he can fly if needed. He can work the mic. He didn't get the "mini-Benoit" rep for nothing.
He's a better worker than Tajiri & Mattitude. Haven't seen too much of Kendrick, but I'd put Knoble above him, too.
the story could just have easily been reported as Nidia being told that she needed to work on her conditioning because her performances weren't up to scratch.
Seeing as she spends the majority of the time at ring-side, I don't see how conditioning would be an issue. And when she does "wrestle", she's held her own.
Regardless, Steph's weight is irrelevant given that she's, you know, not a wrestler. You think that if say, Donovan McNabb turned up for preseason 50 pounds overweight that Andy Reid would be out of line for benching him?
But Steph is pushing for a bigger on-screen role (according to the rumors), so her weight is relevant (although she has lost some weight lately). And 50 pounds overweight is one thing. Nidia is far from "fat". IMO, it had more to do w/ Nidia not matching up to the typical "WWE diva" mold.
It's not like Stephanie is telling the writers what to all the time (some of the time, maybe). That's not how it works.
How it works is this: Stephanie has all of the power and is an on-screen character. If her writers write her to look like shit, their jobs are in jeapordy. If the writers write HHH to look like shit, their jobs are in jeapordy. Stephanie doesn't even need to say a word, even though she has been reported to do so at times.
I do believe that some of the bad ideas are almost certainly Stephanie (how many damned Weddings have we seen in the last year again?), but she is a major influence, whether she overtly barks orders or not. That's how politics works, it's all about who has the power.
(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 21.5.03 1152) "If you're asking if I would ever date a wrestler, certainly I would. However it wouldn't be good business for me to get romantically involved with anyone in any aspect of our business." -Stephanie McMahon (Off the Record, June 3rd, 1999)
originally posted by dMrFor what its worth I'd go along with the idea that Steph takes way to much flak. Some of the 'all that is good is/was Heyman, all that is bad is Steph' shit is ridiculous, and personally I quite enjoy her current TV role.
Exactly what does Stephanie do on TV that's "good?" She's a bad actress, she's not a wrestler, and she's not attractive enough to warrant a major role on TV. If she could at least perform 1 of those 3 functions to moderate satisfaction, I could kinda understand her purpose in the WWE-verse. As it stands, her apparent "talent" that gets her to TV Land is having Vince's DNA.
As far a "Blame Vince!", I agree to an extent. The buck stops with him. He makes all the decisions and he could put an end to the nonsense if he wanted to. However, that doesn't alleviate certain others from what they are doing, suggesting, and demand from Vinny. Stephanie could go to Vince tomorrow and DEMAND a better cruiserweight division or Triple H could DEMAND to put Booker T over at Badd Blood and Vince would most likely cave in to their demands. Of course, the opposite of that is true too, which why you have Nash vs. Triple H part 2 in 4 weeks. It's not just the King that's fucking up the kingdom, it's all his horses and men too.
I 100% agree with the idea that it is stupid to assume "Steph is responsible for the crap and Heyman is responsible for the gold".
The same sort of thing happened years ago when Russo left for WCW. At first everyone assumed he was the guy who came up with the good stuff. Over time people's opinions changed and it became "Russo was responsible for the crap and McMahon was responsible for the gold".
Smarks NEED a scapegoat and by smarks I mean the more Keith-influenced members of the crowd. The "work rate uber alles" contingent. They would shit a brick if "reliable" word came out that Heyman orchastrated a plan to keep Benoit down.
But what's "reliable" on the internet? For the most part the information we get is THIRD hand. A worker or other employee tells Scherer, Meltzer or the Torch something they supposedly heard. S/M/T then rewrite it and give it to us. The worker or other employee could have an agenda of their own and if years of monitoring backstage reports have taught us anything it's that everyone has an agenda.
And hey, once the smarks have it in their head that Steph is the heel and Heyman the baby, there's hits and subscriptions to be had in playing into that. It's like a de facto angle. Smarks need to read into things.
I once ran down some back stage shenanigans for a non-fan. Once I was done they asked me "How is that any different from what's on TV?" Because I think it's real.
Originally posted by Spaceman SpiffEh, I still blame Steph for Jamie Knoble's banishment to jobber-land. Nidia's "too fat" (back when Steph was twice the size she is now) so Knoble gets jobbed out.
Boo-hoo, poor Stephy. Screw her.
(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 21.5.03 1323)
This is one of the stupidest sounding rumors that I have ever heard, and I will never believe it. "Nidia's fat so let's punish Knoble." See, makes no sense. It would be like firing Kurt Angle because Paul Heyman is not getting the job done. (Logical things: Nidia is fat, so we are going to send her to OVW; Nidia is fat, so we are going to keep her off TV until she loses the weight; etc.) I know that some of the crap printed on the dirt sites is true, but I still think you can stick to the theory of not believing everything you read. And when something is this illogical, I just find it hard to believe.
Originally Posted by Notorious F.A.B.I 100% agree with the idea that it is stupid to assume "Steph is responsible for the crap and Heyman is responsible for the gold".
Huh? Who said that? I've never heard that until this thread. I never said it and I hate Stephanie. I think you're inserting "Stephanie" for "Brian Gerwitz."
Originally posted by Notorious F.A.B.The same sort of thing happened years ago when Russo left for WCW. At first everyone assumed he was the guy who came up with the good stuff. Over time people's opinions changed and it became "Russo was responsible for the crap and McMahon was responsible for the gold".
Smarks NEED a scapegoat and by smarks I mean the more Keith-influenced members of the crowd. The "work rate uber alles" contingent. They would shit a brick if "reliable" word came out that Heyman orchastrated a plan to keep Benoit down.
See, here's where you get exposed as not knowing what you're talking about when 1) Scott wrote a little article on his website talking about how Russo WOULD FAIL at Bischoff's job before he even booked his first PPV in 1999 and 2) most of the internet was up in arms about how much Russo sucked after KOTR 99, a few months before he took off for WCW land.
Also, exactly what is wrong with prefering good workers and wrestlers to bad ones like Albert and Big Show? Why am I a brainwashed Keith zombie if I want to see GUYS WRESTLING on a WRESTLING SHOW?
My point; please stop trying to group everyone you disagree with under one big shady umbrella of stupidity, because this board has demonstrated, quite a few times, that we all have our own ideals and motivations. I understand it makes the world a lot easier to make us all out to be the unsatisfied uber-geeks and thus you don't need to justify your comments with actual fact, but really, give it a rest.
Originally posted by Spaceman SpiffEh, I still blame Steph for Jamie Knoble's banishment to jobber-land. Nidia's "too fat" (back when Steph was twice the size she is now) so Knoble gets jobbed out.
Boo-hoo, poor Stephy. Screw her.
(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 21.5.03 1323)
Except Knoble was on his way to jobberdom before that. I think it's more likely he was depushed due to concerns that he was getting a bit too much in character with Nidia, putting his marriage in danger.
But hey, feel free to continue blaming things on Steph. She's rich and screwing Captain Scapegoat. I bet her implants poked that hole in the ozone layer.
Kansas-born and deeply ashamed The last living La Parka Marka
"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Paul Heyman may be a scummy human being but look at the Smackdown shows pre and post Heyman. If you can honestly tell me that Smackdown post-Heyman has been BETTER or even EQUAL to Heyman's run well you must have some kind of Hogan and Vince fetish.
So while it may have been "stupid" to assume that Heyman was responsible for most of the good THEN, it certainly isn't hard to say that now, looking at the Smackdown shows now that he's not writing.
Look at Brock Lesnar for example. Heyman crafted this monster and got him over. Now without Heyman writing, Brock's been turned into friggin Bob Backlund.
Stephanie may not be to blame for the actual content now that Vince is back putting himself all over TV again but the creative has spiraled downward ever since she was put in charge. If she can't do her job effectively because her boss is her father and that's a problem, she shouldn't be doing the job at all.
Originally posted by Spaceman SpiffEh, I still blame Steph for Jamie Knoble's banishment to jobber-land. Nidia's "too fat" (back when Steph was twice the size she is now) so Knoble gets jobbed out.
Boo-hoo, poor Stephy. Screw her.
(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 21.5.03 1323)
Except Knoble was on his way to jobberdom before that. I think it's more likely he was depushed due to concerns that he was getting a bit too much in character with Nidia, putting his marriage in danger.
Is there any actual evidence that Noble was fooling around with Nidia? One would guess that she probably met Eric Angle in OVW, which would skew the whole trying to break up Noble's marriage thing. Not that it's not impossible, just not likely.
Detroit Pistons: 8 wins away. SMELL THE CHAMPIONSHIP!
I watch the Nwa-TNA ppv last week and Jeff Jerret (which I don't like) said something that made sense. Ever sense the WCW was bought out WWE has drop , because they have no one to compete with at all. Also think they got the worng guys in the wrong spots. I use to like HHH, but he is juts getting sad to watch. Goldberg should be gone, he's going to hurt instead of help. I think Vince needs to be behind the sence instead of front. I think Shane needs to be in a spot where he is writing or something. And lets get Jim Ross away from the sports itself send his ass off. I think he is the reason that none of the small guys get push.
Listen, I've watched WWF/E early 2001 version and I've watched ECW and Heyman's version of Smackdown, and if anyone here suggests that Steph is even in the shadows of Heyman they are truly buffoons. But, Steph is in the same position that she's been in since early 2001, the seat once occupied with Heyman belongs to Bruce Pritchard and one of Heyman's apprentice from ECW whose name I can't recall.
If there ever was a time when WWF needs Heyman, it is now. If there is one thing that Heyman does better than anyone else, it's building a character around his strengths, exploting those stregnths to the extent that it overshadows all weakness. As was the case with Public Enemy. He worked everyone with those guys, including what was the IWC and smart fans of 1994 (They came in 2nd place in Wrestling Observer's Tag Team of the Year award) and both Vince and Eric Bischoff who had a bidding war for there services in late 95. Need I mention Raven, Dreamer, Taz, Sandman, even Steve Austin for his short run in that organization.
Now you can say that they were in a 2nd rate fed, which is true. Sandman and Dreamer just aren't WWF material, but there is little doubt in my mind that Raven could have been successful in an upper-midcard level in WWF, instead he shows up and they have no idea what to do a character that complex. Taz was mad over in when he showed up in the WWF, but they got paranoid over his size, stuck him in a stupid angle with Lawyer, then stuck him in front of a microphone where he sits and rots.
In WWF/E someone already mentioned Brock, what about Benoit? Benoit was getting a great reaction when he was doing that whole boy with a dream gimmick last winter. Again, working alongside Benoit's strengths as a character he lacks charisma, but everyone identified with that workman's gimmick. Remember that reaction after RR? Now he is working midcard matches with the FBI, while Hogan and Piper have taken his part at the top! Edge, Noble, Matt Hardy, Brock, Eddie/Chavo, Cena they were totally getting over reactions under and as a result of Heyman's watch. With the exceptions of Cena, they are all worse for wear now Heyman's gone.
No booker or writer is perfect, and to use that to use that argument to justify Steph's power make little sense in my mind. But in a time when they need to rebuild, when they need to create new superstars Heyman is the answer. Because the answer surely isn't 55 year old guys who are in worse shape then the people who watch them, the answer isn't wedding storyline angles, nor is the answer lesbians. That mentality is really making it hard for me to watch the Smackdown product!
And Steph in my mind is a horrible on air personality. I'm sure World War 2 veterens get flashbacks when they hear her voice, 'cause it reminds me of a stuka divebomber.
Originally posted by fuelinjectedPaul Heyman may be a scummy human being but look at the Smackdown shows pre and post Heyman. If you can honestly tell me that Smackdown post-Heyman has been BETTER or even EQUAL to Heyman's run well you must have some kind of Hogan and Vince fetish.
So while it may have been "stupid" to assume that Heyman was responsible for most of the good THEN, it certainly isn't hard to say that now, looking at the Smackdown shows now that he's not writing.
Look at Brock Lesnar for example. Heyman crafted this monster and got him over. Now without Heyman writing, Brock's been turned into friggin Bob Backlund.
Stephanie may not be to blame for the actual content now that Vince is back putting himself all over TV again but the creative has spiraled downward ever since she was put in charge. If she can't do her job effectively because her boss is her father and that's a problem, she shouldn't be doing the job at all.
Two words: Al. Wilson.
"...like the whole idea of a 'war on terrorism'. You can wage war against another country, or on a national group within your own country, but you can't wage war on an abstract noun. How do you know when you've won? When you've got it removed from the Oxford English Dictionary?" ~ Terry Jones
Unabashed HHH mark: because even megalomaniacs need love.
Originally posted by Nagwhat about Benoit? -snip- Remember that reaction after RR? Now he is working midcard matches with the FBI, while Hogan and Piper have taken his part at the top!
Hogan and Piper are feuding with each other. How is that taking anything away from Benoit? Benoit has been feuding with Big Show and John Cena, the last two contenders for the WWE title. Sure, he's not in every single main event, but guess what, there's only one main event on each show and it would be a bit difficult to put every single main event calibur competitor in that match each week.
I was one who was skeptical about the whole everything good on SD = Heyman and everything bad = Steph. I still don't necessary believe all of that. But seeing how the show has been going the last few months, even though SD has been hit with the injury bug of sorts now (which Raw had the misfortune of having in the first part of the split) there is still a lot of talent not being used to the best of their worth as they were a few months back.
As for Stephanie I lost a lot of respect for her when she got involved with HHH personally. It just shows total immaturity on her part. yeah yeah I know "true love and all" but the conflict of interest for a woman in power to allow herself in that situation shows such immaturity. Which she knows and stated at an OTR interview 3 years ago (which someone here has her quote as their signature)
As for her onscreen, I think she was great with HHH. She made him from solid heel to uber-heel of the year 2000. She had the ability to get so much heat on herself and him, I haven't seen him able to come close since he went on his own (well he's never on his 'own' He's got Flair now)... He had this cool, strong heel that might split the crowd, but if the crowd was thinking of cheering him, Steph was their to just annoy and make the audience have hate towards them making them great heel reaction. HHH would never have the character he had if he wasn't sided with Stephanie
cause there's limits to our liberties. 'Least I hope and pray that there are, cause those liberal freaks go too far.
I'll crush all opposition to me And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay
Originally posted by Nagwhat about Benoit? -snip- Remember that reaction after RR? Now he is working midcard matches with the FBI, while Hogan and Piper have taken his part at the top!
Hogan and Piper are feuding with each other. How is that taking anything away from Benoit? Benoit has been feuding with Big Show and John Cena, the last two contenders for the WWE title. Sure, he's not in every single main event, but guess what, there's only one main event on each show and it would be a bit difficult to put every single main event calibur competitor in that match each week.
Yeah, true he has been in a few "main events". As has O'Hare, but just because you wrestle a main event on a TV don't make you a main event on the grand scale. What is the focus of that show, yes the whole Piper/Hogan/McMahon saga (which gives a bad name to saga's.) Cena/Benoit/Brock etc in my mind take a back seat, maybe even a back-seat to the playboy lesbian garbage, I mean that's at least my subjective perception.
Maybe it's going to be a part matches/part shoot interview DVD? I cant imagine they have enough original footage of him to justify a whole DVD either, maybe they got their hands on some pre-WWE footage?
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