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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE RAW #1118 10/27/14 (Page 2)
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Blind_Guardian
Summer sausage








Since: 30.12.13

Since last post: 2228 days
Last activity: 2021 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.37
Pretty much everything Dr Unlikely said. I'll never understand why the WWE is consistently breaking its own back in order to push a guy who gets maybe a 40% pop on his best nights and whose 'CENA SUCKS' chants frequently overshadow the 'Let's go Cena?' ones. Listen to the crowd when Orton RKO'd Rollins, THAT was someone who's actually over. The more WWE tries to ram Cena down our throats, the bigger the percentage of the crowd who wants to bite him in half and spit him back out.

I'm also highly annoyed that it looks like the only person Lesnar will ever wrestle as champion is fucking Cena. He squashed Cena like a bug for the title, then Cena got booked like a beast (which made Lesnar look like a chump, but Anything For Cena) who lost anyway, and now we've got Cena/Lesnar III ... sometime. We're not sure when. Rumble, probably. Hopefully Brock'll crush Cena again so he'll at least lose the title to Reigns.

On the one hand, the champ being gone for most of his reign does kinda give his rare appearances a feeling of mystique that an overhyped, overplayed chump like Cena never could have. On the other hand, WWE must think we have the memories of fruit flies when just six months ago they were doing a bit where Bryan lost the title since he didn't defend it every 30 days. They should at least have an in-show explanation for it, like Heyman pulled some contract shenanigans so Lesnar only has to defend the title when he feels like it.

AWArulz
Scrapple








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 25 days
Last activity: 23 min.
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52
We (and more or less the entire IWC spend a lot of time hating on Cena (or the Cena character, or perhaps both).

so why is it that the WWE and the writers do not?

It's because he moves merchandise for one. We always talk about his "40% pop" but he sells a higher percentage of all the Merch than that. As Meltzer said back in May "At the arenas, Cena is so far above everyone else ... that it's not even close. " And in internet sales he's tops too, although at the writing of the article I read, Warrior was first.

It's because he is the number 1 "Make a wish" granter in history and the WWE needs that good press.

It's because, according to almost all reports, Vince wants Cena a strong, powerful face, probably because of the above and because of his long, loyal work for the company and his ability to "put butts in the seats"

He may get a tweener pop but he sells a crapload of shirts and does a crapload of charity work and as long as that keeps happening, we probably will still see him more or less as is.





We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.

That the universe was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms, I will no more believe than that the accidental jumbling of the alphabet would fall into a most ingenious treatise of philosophy - Swift

Blind_Guardian
Summer sausage








Since: 30.12.13

Since last post: 2228 days
Last activity: 2021 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.37
Honestly I question whether or not anyone who's gotten as much push as Cena has would be able to sell the same amount of merchandise or better. Imagine if Ambrose was getting as much play as Cena is, or even Reigns. WWE Merchandise also has a tendency to be behind the curve; look at how little Daniel Bryan had even at the height of his popularity. Maybe one or two 'YES!' shirts are all I can recall. Even then his stuff was probably outselling Cena's, until a neck injury put him on the bench. I'm willing to bet if anyone was pushed and sold as much as Cena currently is, they'd be able to rake in just as much cash.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 389 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
Cena sells a lot of shirts makes sense ... But if Cena vanished would they stop selling shirts? Would that Cena void be filled by everyone else selling shirts instead? Would they collectively sell more shirts because they all suddenly matter more than they did before?

If Cena really sells that much more stuff than everyone else maybe that's bad business and the whole model needs to be looked at again. If you think about it, Cena is the only safe shirt. Anyone else you plop down $25 on could suddenly fall to storyline enhancement talent or worse yet win a secondary title and lose for weeks.

And a side note to Dr Unlikely's point. Austin 3:16 is thought of as this unstoppable force, but I don't even know if that force could break through the Cena web if he were coming up today without having to play the role of willing buddy, getting mocked for being Ringmaster only to go on and suffer some 50/50 booking where even the wins feel like losses until Cena moves on and ole Stone Cold looks like a defanged rattlesnake.

Cena isn't the only problem, but he's clogging up the pipes.




(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 28.10.14 1957)
CruelAngel777
Sujuk








Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 2252 days
Last activity: 2235 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.34
So if Orton is out of The Authoritah, wouldn't that leave a void for someone new waiting on the side. If Rollins was brought in to fill Batista's spot, only to become their new protected golden boy and instead push out Randy, they could use a new power guy to fill The Viper's void and become the new Animal.

Dude Big E and Cesaro are right there!!! I'm tweeting this shit to anyone in WWE that could make this happen..



Cole: "Yeah, thanks to Kane. You should buy Kane a Rolex watch for what he did for you."
Rollins: "Oh don't be silly, Kane doesn't wear watches."
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01

Since last post: 1226 days
Last activity: 878 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.04
The sad thing about Cena's Cenatrifugal force tedium is that it's just about to ramp up anew with Roman Reigns, as when Cena gradually took the oxygen-sucking torch from Triple H. Imagine the same annoying tropes, except with less charisma and worse matches. It's already started with that whole "don't worry, I'm gonna avenge my boy Dean Ambrose" thing.

    Originally posted by AWArulz
    I wonder if they have plans for Joey Mercury or Jamie Noble in this?


PLEASE. The MNem-ployees being teased as part of the actual Authority team was the most exciting part of the show to me along with THE BIG GUY. They'd make quite the Lawler's Knights.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 2837 days
Last activity: 2837 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    The sad thing about Cena's Cenatrifugal force tedium is that it's just about to ramp up anew with Roman Reigns, as when Cena gradually took the oxygen-sucking torch from Triple H. Imagine the same annoying tropes, except with less charisma and worse matches. It's already started with that whole "don't worry, I'm gonna avenge my boy Dean Ambrose" thing.


The only thing that's kept Cena afloat and the crowd from having a full mutiny about him years ago is his ring work and charisma. If they try and be as dogged with Reigns as the top guy as they have with Cena, they're going to destroy their business. I don't even think that's hyperbole - if they insist on spending eighteen months to two years pushing an incredibly green Reigns the way they've pushed Cena, at the expense of the people the crowd actually care about on an organic level, their bottom line will noticeably suffer.
Stefonics
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02
From: New Jerusalem

Since last post: 1857 days
Last activity: 848 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.19
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      The sad thing about Cena's Cenatrifugal force tedium is that it's just about to ramp up anew with Roman Reigns, as when Cena gradually took the oxygen-sucking torch from Triple H. Imagine the same annoying tropes, except with less charisma and worse matches. It's already started with that whole "don't worry, I'm gonna avenge my boy Dean Ambrose" thing.


    The only thing that's kept Cena afloat and the crowd from having a full mutiny about him years ago is his ring work and charisma. If they try and be as dogged with Reigns as the top guy as they have with Cena, they're going to destroy their business. I don't even think that's hyperbole - if they insist on spending eighteen months to two years pushing an incredibly green Reigns the way they've pushed Cena, at the expense of the people the crowd actually care about on an organic level, their bottom line will noticeably suffer.

I agree. I don't have much more to add, other than to wonder if this is the "real" Randy Orton, because that sure did seem like genuine emotion. Has Randy improved that much, or have the writers eased off and/or found his sweet spot? It told a better story in five minutes than anything that happened in the following two hours and fifty-five minutes, because it wasn't forced. That's a guy that the crowd wants to get behind and will get behind. But, The Juggernaut. Organic is a beautifully entertaining thing to watch and its a shame they don't go organic all the time. "I'll calm down when he's dead!" Phenomenal.

(edited by Stefonics on 29.10.14 0607)
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 389 days
Last activity: 388 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
Maybe Roman Reigns will swerve us all and join The Authority. He's got all the annoying face traits that Batista had, so maybe he will also morph into the interesting dickhead heel Batista was always best at portraying.
Dr Unlikely
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1633 days
Last activity: 1240 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.59
A non-Shield heel run for Reigns is probably the best idea for him and the company, since most of their best post-Backlund faces seemed to find the formula that let them show their charisma while working as a heel. And I think Reigns still does have It, but he's just not there yet as a singles guy yet. Let him come back as a jealous/greedy heel (HHH can give him the same "you need insurance" pitch he gave Cena, with the added bonus that Roman is coming back from an injury) and put him in a few programs with Ambrose or workhorse brawlers like Sheamus and Cesaro and, ideally, build to the Authority sending Reigns to get rid of Cena once and for all. Ideally, because people will want to see him beat Cena, so the transition from Cool Heel back to Megaface will be organic.

Re: Cena, I came into this thread to be all down on him because I really can't stand his act anymore, but I will say this: I subscribe to the Great Man Theory of Wrestling History. I don't agree with the people who think someone else but Hogan could have made the Rock 'n Wrestling boom happen. I watched it then, I appreciate Orndorff, but neither he nor even Savage could have been what Hogan was, because Hogan was a big part of the formula.

And to that extent, I don't think just anybody from this generation could have been what Cena is as far as merchandise sales or a genuine Make-A-Wish phenom. There's too much Cena in what makes Cena Cena, and Randy Orton* would have punched a kid in the face by now if you put him into Cena's trajectory. Batista would have scandalized the program by hitting on a grief-stricken but hot mom. Ken Kennedy would have torn his own arm off trying to throw his KEN-DO ATTITUDE! shirt into the crowd.

The problem, of course, is that the way they keep Cena at this acceptable-but-not great level is by bulldozing everyone below him, so you get the self-fulfilling prophecy that kids are taught not to care about the other guys or want to buy their gear, so of course they can't sell as many t-shirts, so of course you have to push Cena instead. Their biggest mistake in all of this was not realizing that Punk, the only guy who apparently got to Cena merch levels, appealed to a compeletly different demo and could have happily existed as the main event guy for adults and the crossover guy for that other demo they'll never, ever get with Cena. You didn't have to bulldoze him for Cena, they just did anyway.

*I would, however, totally endorse an angle where Orton decides that he could have been Cena and starts showing up dressed like him and pretending to love the children of the world, but still yelling "STUPID! STUPID!" at them for dropping his shirt when he throws it to them.
JimBob Skeeter
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 1099 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely

    *I would, however, totally endorse an angle where Orton decides that he could have been Cena and starts showing up dressed like him and pretending to love the children of the world, but still yelling "STUPID! STUPID!" at them for dropping his shirt when he throws it to them.


This brought a wonderful, glorious tear to my eye.
Blind_Guardian
Summer sausage








Since: 30.12.13

Since last post: 2228 days
Last activity: 2021 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.37
All this talk of Cena makes me wonder one thing; how much of the burying of everyone else on the roster is Cena's idea, and how much of it is HHH/Vince's plan? I know it's hard for those who aren't insiders to know just who's pulling the strings backstage, but I never really see Cena accused of being the one responsible. Certainly not to the extent that I saw HHH and Hogan blamed for their own unstoppable reigns at the top. Just because a guy spends a lot of time hanging out with sick kids doesn't necessarily mean he'll be nice to everyone, especially his coworkers.

Has anyone heard of Cena being a dick backstage and holding his coworkers down, or did the WWE get so used to their top guy being an egomaniac who crushes all potential rivals that they started doing it even without said top guy's input? At the very least he doesn't seem to be doing much to try and stop it, unless the writers are so bad at their jobs that every time he tries to work a program with up-and-coming talent, they book him to look like Super Cena and the other guy comes off as Cena Lite at best.

I have to admit, it would be a lot harder to hate Cena if he was holding everyone down against his will and genuinely wanted to help other people get over. I somehow doubt that's the case, though ... someone with as much pull as Cena seems to have could surely get them to ease off on the 'bury everyone except the top guy' mentality.
Tenken347
Knackwurst








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.14
    Originally posted by Blind_Guardian
    All this talk of Cena makes me wonder one thing; how much of the burying of everyone else on the roster is Cena's idea, and how much of it is HHH/Vince's plan? I know it's hard for those who aren't insiders to know just who's pulling the strings backstage, but I never really see Cena accused of being the one responsible. Certainly not to the extent that I saw HHH and Hogan blamed for their own unstoppable reigns at the top. Just because a guy spends a lot of time hanging out with sick kids doesn't necessarily mean he'll be nice to everyone, especially his coworkers.

    Has anyone heard of Cena being a dick backstage and holding his coworkers down, or did the WWE get so used to their top guy being an egomaniac who crushes all potential rivals that they started doing it even without said top guy's input? At the very least he doesn't seem to be doing much to try and stop it, unless the writers are so bad at their jobs that every time he tries to work a program with up-and-coming talent, they book him to look like Super Cena and the other guy comes off as Cena Lite at best.

    I have to admit, it would be a lot harder to hate Cena if he was holding everyone down against his will and genuinely wanted to help other people get over. I somehow doubt that's the case, though ... someone with as much pull as Cena seems to have could surely get them to ease off on the 'bury everyone except the top guy' mentality.


Actually, every interview I've ever seen says that Cena is a super nice guy and genuine hard worker. Even Paul London, who buried absolutely everyone on his way out, had nothing bad to say about Cena. He's also been credited with advocating pushes for Evan Bourne and Zack Ryder, although the way both of those worked out, I suspect he didn't push that hard. So, it really seems like Cena is a guy that just goes with the flow.
byort
Haggis








Since: 20.5.02
From: Normal, IL

Since last post: 2899 days
Last activity: 2898 days
#34 Posted on
    Originally posted by dwaters
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker

      (And, again, they have ruined Big Show with the WMD. If you can KO someone with one punch, just go for the punch when the bell rings. If you can headbutt, you can punch. If you can chop in the corner, you can punch. Just punch.)




    Kinda like how Cena has ruined wrestling boots for me. Why lace up a big ol' pair of boots to hit the ring when the multi-time champion just throws on a pair of jogging shoes he picked up at Foot Locker?


This is my biggest pet peeve in the indy wrestling world. I go to a promotion that puts on some GREAT shows, but the whole "wrestling boot cover" that some wrestlers have taken to wear over their sneakers is the WORST! Just buy the boots or wear the sneakers, people. You're not fooling us.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 2837 days
Last activity: 2837 days
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by Blind_Guardian
    All this talk of Cena makes me wonder one thing; how much of the burying of everyone else on the roster is Cena's idea, and how much of it is HHH/Vince's plan? I know it's hard for those who aren't insiders to know just who's pulling the strings backstage, but I never really see Cena accused of being the one responsible. Certainly not to the extent that I saw HHH and Hogan blamed for their own unstoppable reigns at the top. Just because a guy spends a lot of time hanging out with sick kids doesn't necessarily mean he'll be nice to everyone, especially his coworkers.


There's the story told by Edge and Jericho about how they tried to convince him to do the job in the big Nexus SummerSlam main event, but he was adamant that he wanted to kick out of the DDT on the floor and eliminate the last two guys singlehandedly. That's about it.

Oh, and apparently he tried to kill Michael Tarver.
JimBob Skeeter
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 1140 days
Last activity: 1099 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      Originally posted by Blind_Guardian
      All this talk of Cena makes me wonder one thing; how much of the burying of everyone else on the roster is Cena's idea, and how much of it is HHH/Vince's plan? I know it's hard for those who aren't insiders to know just who's pulling the strings backstage, but I never really see Cena accused of being the one responsible. Certainly not to the extent that I saw HHH and Hogan blamed for their own unstoppable reigns at the top. Just because a guy spends a lot of time hanging out with sick kids doesn't necessarily mean he'll be nice to everyone, especially his coworkers.


    There's the story told by Edge and Jericho about how they tried to convince him to do the job in the big Nexus SummerSlam main event, but he was adamant that he wanted to kick out of the DDT on the floor and eliminate the last two guys singlehandedly. That's about it.

    Oh, and apparently he tried to kill Michael Tarver.


And then, afterwards, he admitted that they were right, he should have done the job, but, to little, to late.


What's this about Tarver?
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 2837 days
Last activity: 2837 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
Tarver went on a crazy Twitter rant after being released and accused Cena of deliberately breaking his arm and getting him fired.
Greymarch
Boudin rouge








Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 1606 days
Last activity: 794 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.76
Though from those tweets it was hard to tell how lucid Tarver was at the time...
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01

Since last post: 1226 days
Last activity: 878 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.04
Jericho's new book (great MacGruber stories!) does clarify that Vince was the one insistent that Cena go over Nexus, Cena just had a bad idea for a spot. Vince, FWIW, is also the guy who insisted Cena come back stronger than ever from the SummerSlam loss to Lesnar "so his fans would know he was still in the fight." And the guy who said any Cena match was a Mania co-main event because this man feeds us. And the guy who wouldn't let Cena dress differently when he was Nexus' slave because it would confuse the audience. And the guy who thought he could get John a 50-50 crowd split with the Rock in Miami. And...
KJames199
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

Since last post: 62 days
Last activity: 6 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.94
hijacking the thread a bit here
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Jericho's new book (great MacGruber stories!)
Is this book full of "LOL I got drunk and acted like a piece of shit, what a hilarious and wacky guy I am" stories too? Because I'd really like to enjoy the guy - he wrestles good and talks good and light-up jacket! - but he came across so poorly in his second book that I really grew to dislike him. Not in a "boo the bad guy" way, but more a "get the fuck over yourself, you idiot manchild" thing.

(edited by KJames199 on 30.10.14 0932)


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It's been done many times, actually....I think the first incident was in Phoenix in 2000.
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