Flair/Rock would probably be as big a money match as HBK/Angle.
I don't know why everyone says Cena has to win the title at WM 21. In my eyes they have done nothing to make him worthy of carrying the belt.
Now if they had started JBL off in the US Title hunt and him going on and on about how Cena represents everything that is wrong with America then with WM 21 in Hollywood would that be a great match.
Cena is hardly worthy of the US Title right now, but sadly they will probably build a Cena/JBL match out of thin air because it's not like Smackdown has anything else to offer in a main event.
Judging by how Rock's involvement in the Wrestlemania buildup has dropped over the past few years, I don't think he'll be involved at *all* this year.
What did he do last year? Run in and bail out Foley the week before Mania?
None of the proposed scenarios sound like anything I'd shell out $50 for, even if I'm splitting it with a few friends. I'm really just not that interested in any of the new faces they're pushing and most of the guys I like are gone or reduced to chorus roles in the big producation.
But OSH, I love your idea about bringing back Goldust to tag with Book.
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Originally posted by TL_HopperDidn't they blow Flair-Rock as a Raw main event a couple years ago?
Yes, and it was nothing special, lemme tell ya.
Originally posted by JustinShapiroAt the same time, as much as I and everyone else have cooled on Cena this year, at least he stayed mega-over as a face, unlike Randy, and the idea that he should be taking a backseat to Orton is silly in every aspect other than Orton is better in-ring and Orton is Triple H's opponent.
Orton is absolutely not better than Cena at anything. Unless you're talking about one of the previous two incarnations of eras gone by. Orton, unlike Cena, is super-protected by always being put with awesome workers. He cannot even do his own finishing move properly, and hardly ever uses that backbreaker/neckbreaker deal that is literally the only thing he does properly. His dropkick is all right, too, but not particularly better than Maven's. Really, the only thing Orton is great at is that fucking awesome pose he does, but it's all downhill once he attempts to wrestle or speak.
Cena, while certainly not Curt Hennig, has padded his shortcomings wisely with a number of crowd-pleasing, gimmicky spots like the five-knuckle shuffle, the throwback, that leaping hiptoss, and a finish that while nothing spectacular, he can execute well and is impressive when he does it to bigger guys. He is ten times better than Orton, with half the push.
That being said, I don't want him to win the WWE title yet. Especially if it's going to be some lame quick thing like they did with Orton. I mean, what did that do for Randy? He would better off never having held it, clearly they were just desperate to erase Brock from the mantle youngest Champ. One small blip of a reign makes him look silly Cena doesn't need politically damaging motivations behind his major career accomplishments, just let it flow. Orton may survive because he's not one of those people who had a groundswell of support lift him into the air, he is accepted because we've been ordered to accept him for two years now. Cena, on the other hand, was the one who actually got over by himself, he was the surprise candidate the fans decided to get behind so it is imperative he not be undermined by getting buried on a card that doesn't need his win in order to be draw.
Originally posted by Phantom LordI don't know why everyone says Cena has to win the title at WM 21. In my eyes they have done nothing to make him worthy of carrying the belt.
And Bradshaw has? I don't want him to win it there either, but in an era where Bradshaw can be the Champion it sure ain't because Cena isn't worthy. It would be nice to have the belt on someone over for a change, don't you think?
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"Orton is absolutely not better than Cena at anything."
That's what I meant, entirely, especially comparing them both as babyfaces since Cena is genuinely over at a level befitting the top face instead of being shoved down your throat in the role. Cena is absolutely better than Cena at everything .... with the definite exception of in-ring.
That's not supposed to be read as an endorsement of Randy's work; there's no question that Orton's great matches have been entirely Foley/Benoit creations, and he and Triple H kind of stunk up the place (which I think exposed HHH as a Benoit/Michaels creation more than it did Orton, but again, that's not an endorsement of Randy). But head-to-head, he's still a better worker than John Cena is. At the same time, if Cena got to work with Benoit, Michaels, and Jericho practically every week for a year instead of the Rene Duprees of the world, it would probably be a different story.
I would like to see Y2J as champ. I don't think Vince would allow that again, he seems glued to the IC title picture. The Rock will be at WM21, probably as a heel though, they are in Hollywood.
Originally posted by JustinShapiroYou'd think. I hope he does. On the one hand, there's probably a feeling that they don't want to do the same "superstar of the future wins world title" story that they'll be doing with Randy Orton.
This brings to mind one disturbing thought- Randy Orton has already been World Heavyweight Freakin' Champion. Dammit! That isnt some freakin made-up "Mexican Championship" its the big gold- you cant just put it on anyone! I mean, on Smackdown the WWE Championship has already been dragged down several notches to a point where it is below the U.S. championship (Cena is more over than JBL, and has been since before JBL was champ).
Orton is on his way NOW, thanks to an ongoing push; but he shouldnt have got it back then.
Is Rock gonna be at mania? Yes. Im sure he'll show up- you can tell the Rock likes making appearances and he wouldnt miss Wrestlemania.
As for whos better- whos the future- Randy or Cena? I say...
Shelton Benjamin! ...ahem... but thats just me.
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Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor?This brings to mind one disturbing thought- Randy Orton has already been World Heavyweight Freakin' Champion. Dammit! That isnt some freakin made-up "Mexican Championship" its the big gold- you cant just put it on anyone!
Actually, didn't Bischoff just show up with the Big Gold Belt one day and declare that there would be a Raw Champion? It's not like it goes back to the NWA and Lou Thesz or anything.
EDIT: I looked it up. 20 OCT 02, Eric Bischoff announces HHH is the RAW World Champion after WWE Champion Brock Lesnar joins SmackDown. (source)
Your point is well-taken, though.
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My ideal situation is that Orton wins the belt soon and then face Rock at Wrestlemania 21, but that will not happen as long as HHH is in the picture. I think we all know Orton will be champ at Mania, so it kills an real enthausim for it much like WM 19 when you know Brock was going to beat Kurt. Kurt/Brock was a hell of a match until the crash and burn ending, but it just felt forced. Orton/Rock would be nice, but I do think the fans will cheer Rock 110%.
The problem is that Kurt/Taker seem to be hogging Wrestlemania 21 which sucks since have headlined it before and honestly unless Taker retires there is no real drama in the match. So, I don't expect Cena to win the belt at Wrestlemania since the main event is past of point of being clogged with Taker, Eddie, JBL, Booker, Kurt and Big Show. It also kills the fact that if JBL goes to Mania with the belt, it will take a lot more than Cena winning it to lend any creditablity back to that belt. If its Kurt/Cena it would be cool, but Smackdown needs a trade fast to keep them going. It worked for Raw to put Benoit, Edge and Shelton on, so Smackdown needs something like that. I do think Wrestlemania 21 will be saved by the undercard if they can get their shit together.
"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
Originally posted by A FanMy ideal situation is that Orton wins the belt soon and then face Rock at Wrestlemania 21, but that will not happen as long as HHH is in the picture. I think we all know Orton will be champ at Mania, so it kills an real enthausim for it much like WM 19 when you know Brock was going to beat Kurt. Kurt/Brock was a hell of a match until the crash and burn ending, but it just felt forced. Orton/Rock would be nice, but I do think the fans will cheer Rock 110%.
Which brings back something that I haven't thought of in a long while. Does anyone else here think the instead of the "Orton wins Title at Summerslam, turns face, loses title to HHH" arc, that they should have went with Orton retaining the IC Title at Vengeance against Edge and then having Rock vs Orton at Summerslam, since Orton's push was clearly paralleling the one that the Rock had about 7 years before. Plus Orton kept claiming that he was the longest reigning IC Champion in 7 years, the longest reigning since....The Rock. Anyway, I, at least thought that would have been cool. But at least we'll get our Orton vs HHH match we've all been salivating over
And without fantasy booking TOO much, I'd like to see Edge win the World Title in a tournament that culminates at the next PPV, then have Edge vs HBK at Mania for the Title. We can have HHH vs Orton (vs Batista?) in a kind of co-main event position. And then you top it off with Foley vs Flair with Angle vs Cena on the other side plus Eddie vs Benoit in an interbrand match. Notice that this scenario will be better than having HHH vs Orton for the World Title. Good thing I'm not on the creative team.
The problem with that is they probably never will. They might wait until the week before w21 . I personnaly want Kane and Taker to make up and go against any team unlucky enough to get in thier way
Originally posted by Big BadI was thinking about WrestleMania the other day, and considered the Smackdown side.
* It's looking more and more like JBL will (shudder) hold onto the belt until WM21, where he'll defend against John Cena
Since Los Angeles was the start of Undertaker's WrestleMania unbeaten streak, why not schedule him against the Rock...the new 'king' of Hollywood? This would certainly be a high-profile type of main event that can pull in some buyrates
My mate and I have been talking about this in recent days and after watching SD today and hopefully Armageddon tomorrow.. we think it makes sense for Undertaker to win at Armageddon and continue through to a week before WM21 losing the title to Angle , and setting up a return against Angle at WM21 winning it again before dropping it soon after to Cena
My reasoning is that the cheers UT gets are still enormous and if UT puts the effort in for a solid 5 month run ,ratings and buyrates will go through the roof,IMO
The only catch I can see is people KNOW UT never loses at WM so it may work in the WWEs favor to try and fool the fans into thinking it may happen. Dont get me wrong I feel JBL has carried the belt better than I Imagined but I am (and a lot of others) are bored. Is he really''unbeatable''? If he had been beaten and lost the belt even for a week it may have been better.
Since I'm the guy who said otherwise, I should now completely retract that, because in the later Observer, Rock told Dave or perhaps Alex Marvez or perhaps someone else that he is planning on wrestling at Wrestlemania and hopes they come up with something good for him. If Foley/Flair was not a work to set up Wrestlemania, I see Rock really wanting to work with Flair playing off of what they did last year's match. Considering you get one Rock match per year, ideally you'd find more of a way for him to give a rub to the young guys, but at the same time a repeat of Mick Foley where he only comes in to lose over and over is not very fun even if it's getting the best possible use out of his stature.
Rock/Cena would be the idle situation reverse Hogan/Rock at Wrestlemania X-8. Cena should drop the U.S. title at the Rumble since its in Cali, Rock interfers or something, because Cena made a comment about being the Chosen One or something. If you had Cena/Rock, Flair/Foley, JBL/Big Show, Taker/Kane vs. Hiedenrich/Snitsky, HHH/Orton, HBK/Kurt and Shelton/Edge, it might not be as bad as you think. I just think with Rumble around the corner it would be nice if the undercard started the ball rolling on Wrestlemania since Orton/HHH is a lock unless they throw Batista in there which I can almost now see.
"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
Well im not going to say that Rock and Cena wouldn't be good (the promos alone would be great) but I still think that they can get more out of Rock and Flair. I personally don't remember Rock and Flair at Raw a few years back, but I think if it were to have the right build for Wrestlemania, it could be huge money...man I want to hear them promo each other.
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Originally posted by A FanRock/Cena would be the idle situation reverse Hogan/Rock at Wrestlemania X-8. Cena should drop the U.S. title at the Rumble since its in Cali, Rock interfers or something, because Cena made a comment about being the Chosen One or something. If you had Cena/Rock, Flair/Foley, JBL/Big Show, Taker/Kane vs. Hiedenrich/Snitsky, HHH/Orton, HBK/Kurt and Shelton/Edge, it might not be as bad as you think. I just think with Rumble around the corner it would be nice if the undercard started the ball rolling on Wrestlemania since Orton/HHH is a lock unless they throw Batista in there which I can almost now see.
You're missing Benoit, Eddy, and Jericho. Those three, along with Batista, Rock, Edge, and some others, would be the reason I'd want to purchase the show in the first place - not for Orton/HHH or JBL/Big Show.
And especially not Taker/Kane vs. the big guys.
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Rock v Cena Rock v Flair Rock v Taker Rock v any other returning legend
What would be the logic behind putting Rock in any of those situations - he'll get booed out of the building in any of those programs. Why would anyone want Rock to be a heel at this point?
Who hates the People, and would, by association, hate the People's Champion? Edge.
Yes, you do have Benoit, Jericho and Edge, but realistically what can you do with them. Edge vs. either Benoit or Jericho has been done already. Edge vs. Batista would be good, but what does Benoit, Eddy and Y2J do if they are not going for the titles. To me, there is a ton of talent being waisted while JBL, Orton and HHH as of now clog the main event. I just think the undercard unless something major happens is going to be in shambles like at Wrestlemania X-9 and X-8 where there were some well built matches, but those involved sans Booker and Brock already established stars.
Rock has confirmed he will have a match WM21, but with who is still on the table. I think Edge is a great choice and if he does beat Rock, it will probably get him some momentum to face Orton for the belt at Backlash. I'm for anything that puts the belt on Edge at this point in time.
"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
It sounds to me like Orton has actually been getting some pretty good pops from the crowd, and I don't hear it for Cena as much anymore Although I think it's more of the way he's been pushed, if you give Cena his push and vice versa I'm sure people are going nuts for Cena instead. But I don't agree with Cena having a better finisher. Sure Orton's Diamond Cutter sucks, but every once in a while he hits it right. Cena on the other hand, can do his finisher correctly 6 billion times in a row, and it will never be interesting. And if you want your babyface to go over at Wrestlemania I think he needs a big finisher to cap it off. I'd probably go with Cena over Orton, but I'm not that impressed with either. I definitely think Shelton is better at this point, and Haas could be if they pushed him, I'd take Batista at this point too.
Speaking of Batista, I think he's been doing really well the past couple of months and can put on some pretty decent big man matches and he should be getting a big WM match this year.. Flair and Triple H might be busy with Foley and Orton at WM21, so why not put Batista up against the Rock. I'd be more interested in that than Triple H/Orton or Flair/Foley.
As for Benoit, Jericho, Edge and those guys. I'd build the Edge vs. HBK match up to WM. And if I was going to do a cross promotional match I'd go with Angle vs. Jericho. They've wrestled before but it's been a while it seems. As for Benoit? You got me there. Christian? Matt Hardy? Heel Eugene?
Perhaps I blinked and missed it, but where was Morrison? How do you pin the champ (for the 2nd time) and get left off the next week. Not to mention left off the PPV.