AniMatrix killed the franchise. Once you see there is absolutely no way they can win the rest of the story becomes mute. They wrote themselves into a corner. I also don't think there is enough fan trust to warrant a sequel. In both sequels, nothing really mattered. They went after the building with the white room and blow it up hoping it will stop the machines, it didn't. Trinity died and then came back just to die again in Revolutions. They went through this huge fight only to have Neo sacrifice himself to destroy the only interesting character in the films. Then, it just ends with a truce that is hinted won't last and the entire process will just start over again.
You can make sequels and I am sure they will be successful. I just want there to be a final end to it. Either the humans beat the machines back or all of humanity dies, pick one and go with it. The Matrix Trilogy was the perfect example why certain movies should not have sequels let alone be a trilogy.
The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions were good movies the public pretty much rejected. I'd say there were a few factors that caused this.
The Matrix was a phenomenon in 1999. I was in film school when it came out and it's all everyone talked about. DVD was a new fangled invention then and we stayed up all night more than once going through the Matrix DVD. Many philosophical conversations took place over the influences, deeper meanings, potential of the Matrix and its universe. And not just with film geeks - The Matrix spawned books on philosophy, there were essays and theses and papers written about The Matrix, etc. When the inevitable sequels and trilogy were announced, plenty of opinions and desires existed about What Would Come Next and Where The Story Should ("should" being the operative word here) Go.
And nearly all of that was in direct conflict with what The Wachowski Brothers (or Brother and Sister, as they now are) were actually up to with Reloaded and Revolutions. This is one of those cases where the filmmakers just did not jive with the audience. I mean, I liked Reloaded, I liked it more than Revolutions, ultimately. I did like the trilogy as a whole. There were certainly a ton of problems, but I thought overall, the story the Wachowskis told worked.
But I can pinpoint exactly where the Fork in the Road happened between the audience and the Wachowskis:
At the end of The Matrix, Neo makes a call from a payphone threatening the mainframe. He's Superman now. He's at full power as The One. He tells The Matrix he's coming for them and flies into the air.
Less than fifteen minutes into Reloaded, after Trinity opens the movie blowing up the office building and poses with her vinyl-clad ass to the screen, Neo wakes up and says, "I wish I knew what I was supposed to do."
What? Did Neo not see the end of the previous movie? He knew exactly what he was supposed to do. He was going to kick some Matrix ass. But apparently in the three years between movies, he plum forgot! Then we find out he doesn't want to be a Messiah, then we get to Zion and everyone rejected the rave and the idea of all of the minorities (gasp!) being the last humans at the center of the Earth, and then we found out the boring ass ruling council of Zion thinks Morpheus is crazy and doesn't take him seriously. Then Jada Pinkett-Smith shows up but does nothing at all and blah and blah and blah and blah. The list goes on and on of what the audience rejected.
And that's even before the Train Man shows up in Revolutions and we get no answers about the nature of the Merovingian, etc.
In general, the audience just didn't buy this story. It wasn't what we were promised at the end of The Matrix.
Now, I think people will certainly show up for more Matrix movies if they make them, if they look cool, but if those movies materialize, it'll be ten years since Reloaded and Revolutions. Expectations are low for more Matrix. That might actually work for the Wachowskis if these sequels do happen.
(edited by John Orquiola on 24.1.11 0818) @BackoftheHead
Maybe they can have a thirty minute moronic rave scene in this one rather then the fifteen minute long one that was in the last movie.
I hadn't seen Matrix in a while but it was on television the other day and I got through about fifteen minutes of it before I wondered what in the world I saw in this movie back when it first was released - it was awful.
Originally posted by wannaberockstarMaybe they can have a thirty minute moronic rave scene in this one rather then the fifteen minute long one that was in the last movie.
I didn't care for the first one initially, but it grew on me eventually. But I loved "Reloaded" mostly because the action is so much fun to watch. The whole "Matrix" storyline is just background fodder to me.
I thought the third one was just dreadful. That's where I agree that the Wachowski brothers painted themselves into a corner.
I generally enjoy the Wachowski brothers' work. I still watch "V for Vendetta" once in awhile and I was one of the few who really loved "Speed Racer". If they think they can use the Matrix franchise to show off a bunch of new geeky technology, who am I to argue. They can't really further ruin something everybody's already written off.
Originally posted by lotjxAniMatrix killed the franchise. Once you see there is absolutely no way they can win the rest of the story becomes mute. They wrote themselves into a corner.
I never saw AniMatrix and I still felt the sequels sucked major ass, especially the 3rd which was a pure pile of steaming shit.
Originally posted by John OrquiolaThe Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions were good movies the public pretty much rejected. I'd say there were a few factors that caused this.
The Matrix was a phenomenon in 1999. I was in film school when it came out and it's all everyone talked about. DVD was a new fangled invention then and we stayed up all night more than once going through the Matrix DVD. Many philosophical conversations took place over the influences, deeper meanings, potential of the Matrix and its universe. And not just with film geeks - The Matrix spawned books on philosophy, there were essays and theses and papers written about The Matrix, etc. When the inevitable sequels and trilogy were announced, plenty of opinions and desires existed about What Would Come Next and Where The Story Should ("should" being the operative word here) Go.
I both agree and disagree with you. The first movie was an amazing mix of action, special effects and mystical philosophies.
And yeah, nobody could have predicted that all of that mystical stuff would be explained away in a TERRIBLE scene with a boring guy in white telling us "Haha. Tricked you. We programmed this to happen."
I started enjoying part 3 again the moment the Oracle says something like "It's up to you if you believe what he said" basically imo saying "feel free to ignore movie #2's plot"
But I don't know where they can take the story now. If Neo returns, we know it's just for another cycle.
Lotjx; can you tell why the Animatrix killed it. I recall enjoying some of those cartoons. But don't remember anything saying "humans cannot win" (tho I guess the end of Revolutions does say that. After all, they are still living in a Matrix world)
I believe it was near the end of the two part origin story that they show you all the machines covering the planet and how the population of Earth is now 1/100ths of what it was that you realize there is no way the humans can win. Some of the stories were ok, but the origin pretty much killed any realistic idea that it would end with the humans winning. I hated Matrix 2 out of all of them, because all of it was a giant waste of time. They could have cut out Matrix 2 and just put them in the final battle without much of a change. The Matrix may have warranted a sequel, but not a trilogy for all the gripes about Episode I and II being unnecessary, the same could be said for the Matrix 2.
Originally posted by John OrquiolaAn absolute treasury of beautiful starfucking.
Christ, I owe you an apology. I didn't realize you were operating with such cognitive dissonance. To trash the movies as thoroughly as you did and then still claim to like them is just insane.
The first Matrix worked as a standalone movie, because it had a cool gimmick, not unlike "The Sixth Sense". We didn't realize what was going on until the big reveal about halfway through the movie. So when the sequels came out, it was kinda' like: "oh, no gimmick...almost like the Terminator movies' future".
That can happen with sci-fi sequels. Once the sheet is pulled pack, there's an entire layer missing. I think the same thing is paralleled in the "Predator" movies. The first one was a lot of fun because the audience begins to find out about the villain/threat at the same time the heroes do. The sequels didn't have that layer of mystery or intrigue. As a result, the sequels generally ended up catering to geeks.
I've thought 30 Rock was the best comedy on TV for a while. It's more of a basic sitcom setup, so it's not really something worth discussing here, similar to How I Met Your Mother (#3 on my list after the Office).
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