Is it just me or is Scott Steiner just plain BORING!!!??? Just sitting here watching TNA and saw him and Jarret come in and jump the guys. Some things never change I guess, About al lI ever saw him do in WWE was suplex guys for the entire match and thats all he did tonight... woo hooo I'm impressed...
I remember back when he was wrestling with his brother and he could actually wrestle, what happened to that guy?
I don't think he's boring, actually he can be really effective when booked properly. WWE really screwed him up with how he was used, but in the last days of WCW he was one of the main reasons to watch. He had a really good feud with Goldberg and DDP, and his interviews were a complete train wreck; didnt he once tell people to switch the channel to RAW once? I'd say his athletic prime was right beofre the Steiner Bros. went the WWF. I believe he was the TV Champ at the time and was getting a big singles push, even going to a 40 minute draw with Flair. I think he may have had some classic matches with Steamboat on WCW Saturday night also. His patented move was the Frankenstiener and it was pretty impressive to watch, he pulled it off very smoothly. I think his character is still good, and hopefully TNA does with him what WWE never could (or wanted to).
Very insightful comments, Ne Luumaet, and welcome to the board.
I don't know, I don't think Steiner's boring per se, it's simply that he's been around forever and is still doing the same gimmick that he first started about eight years ago. He's not good in the ring anymore, he's allegedly notorious for being a pain in the ass to work with, and he's just adding to the latter-day WCW feel that TNA's starting to adopt.
In addition, he's really adding to the "nWo" feel of Jarrett's Army. They've got, what, 14 people in that stable, now? Honest to God, enough was enough before they added Monty Brown and Abyss, let alone Steiner.
The only two things Steiner's really got going for him, in my opinion, are his size and his intense promos.
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Steiner's promos ceased being "intense" and crossed over into "unintelligable" about six years ago.
To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Exactly. And he's never, ever, ever been a proven draw. AND any mythical "star power" he may have once possessed was diluted into nothingness by his epic nine-month feud with The Man They Call Test. My last pre-TNA memory of Steiner is Booker tipping him over the top rope like a big, stiff block o'wood in the 2004 Royal Rumble. He looked incapable of bending his body.
Honestly, who in the world thought hiring this guy was a good idea? There are hundreds of indie guys out there with excellent physiques, better temprements and vastly smaller asking prices that could've filled his shoes. And on top of that, they may have got over a new name whose foot isn't in danger of falling off whenever he steps in the ring.
To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Is it just me or the idea of having Bullet Bob Armstrong and Konnan having a arm wrestling match on PPV in a freakin' CAGE is the stupidiest thing they ever done. I mean, really. Even worst than the wrestling penises.
Originally posted by oldschoolheroExactly. And he's never, ever, ever been a proven draw. AND any mythical "star power" he may have once possessed was diluted into nothingness by his epic nine-month feud with The Man They Call Test. My last pre-TNA memory of Steiner is Booker tipping him over the top rope like a big, stiff block o'wood in the 2004 Royal Rumble. He looked incapable of bending his body.
Honestly, who in the world thought hiring this guy was a good idea? There are hundreds of indie guys out there with excellent physiques, better temprements and vastly smaller asking prices that could've filled his shoes. And on top of that, they may have got over a new name whose foot isn't in danger of falling off whenever he steps in the ring.
Hundreds of "no-name" indie guys? Steiner was brought in for one reason, name recognition. Granted, he may not be a draw, but the reason that TNA brought him in is almost most certainly that THEY think he is a draw. They didn't bring him in just because they suddenly felt that the roster was in need of some 'roided-up goof. Alternatives to Steiner for what TNA was looking for here would be other perceived "draws", not guys with any certain physique.
The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Then it's stupid-ass booking. I'm not here to claim intimate knowledge of TNA's decision-making process. All I see is Steiner, in a subservient role to Jeff Jarrett, getting a massive amount of TV time due to him somehow being considered a "name". If Steiner's presence had no effect whatsoever on WWE's popularity, then what are the chances of TNA, with its incredibly limited-by-comparison resources, being able to get the word out to the five or six Steiner marks that "Hey! Over here! Here's your guy!"?
So yes, if TNA felt that Jarrett needed yet another guy to act as his heavy, they should've hired a cheap, talented nobody and pushed HIM as the guy who brutalised Sting, not hiring a near-cripple and acting as if he's the toughest SOB since Austin. And if they felt they need star power, they should try manufacturing some of their own instead of recycling yet another WWE reject.
To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
My last memory of Steiner is him killing the crowd for Angle and Benoit at the 2003 royal rumble. It was an idiotic match...HHH should have said WTF, stop suplexing me, it doesn't make sense.
I am under the impression that he was really hot and could have won the WCW title in 1993-ish, but he didn't want to break up with Rick out of loyalty to his brother. I think Ric Flair wanted him to get it.
He was athletic, reinvented himself as a meathead and still has a job in the business.
I don't watch TNA...is he wearing the chain mail?
(edited by canis582 on 26.3.06 0927) Damn, is my rating low
I think if used in the "hired muscle" capacity, Steiner could be very effective. Plus he makes a nice addition to the build in the Sting vs. Jarrett feud, which in my opinion, is one of the better build angles in a while.
He's in his forties, can barely talk, can wrestle even less, has attitude problems, is a walking steroid tribunal, and costs a shitload more than the innumerable youngsters they could slot in his place. He has one thing going for him-his name-and even that means jack shit to anybody who hasn't been glued to wrestling for the last fifteen years and therefore is likely very much aware that the company exists.
It is a BAD MOVE by TNA. If it were WWE signing him up to be JBL's hired gun it would still be a bad move.
It just baffles me, it really does. TNA is a tiny company compared to its main rival. Why blow serious money on something for negligable return on someone that, at the very best, is going to be just about adequate in a role that could be filled better by others? Because he meant something eight-plus years ago? He didn't even disappear for a while like Sting, so there's no excuses for people not knowing how truly terrible he is. He was there, two years back, being absolutely awful in almost any match he was put in! And if you're gonna sign him, why program him with Sting and Jarrett, two guys who need no rub, no boost from putting down a great? Why sideline all three of those guys when all three could be feuding with-and putting over-the AJ Styles', the Samoa Joes, the Abyss', the Chris Sabins, the Lance Hoyts....Hell, ANYONE?
To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
I think if you're going to judge TNA for bringing in Steiner, you have to do so while ignoring anything that had to do with the booking of his WWE run (like an 8 month feud with Test, or a body-building showdown with Triple H) and judge him just on his limited mobility. Steiner is just another name on the LONG list of WCW guys that McMahon brought in and either didn't want to use right because they were "WCW guys", or had no fucking idea how to use them right because they didn't fit into his cookie cutter week by week booking. Look at Goldberg. If you were to judge him just on his WWE run, you'd think that someone would be out of their mind to give him a job at all, and yet when he was with WCW, he was part of the reason they almost put the WWE out of business.
That said, there's plenty of lousy workers in wrestling that have been very impressive when used right. Maybe TNA figured that the WWE just screwed him up like they screwed up *everyone else* from WCW that they've brought in from DDP to Jericho to Ric Flair. Ne Luumaet is right. Steiner was one of the ONLY reasons to watch WCW in it's dying days, and actually did an amazing job as the monster heel. His ringwork hasn't gotten any worse than it was then, and all the backstage problems are the same as well, so there's no reason for TNA to think that they couldn't get the same return that WCW got off of him. Especially when you figure the egos (bookers have them too) involved.
His ringwork HAS gotten worse since then. That was FIVE YEARS AGO, for Chrissakes! He barely made it into the WWE in 2002, when nerve damage threatened to finish off his leg once and for all. And how did WWE drop the ball at Royal Rumble 2003? Was Steiner being so bad that the crowd turned on him somehow their fault? He was made to look stronger than any other face challenger to Trips up until that point, and the only reason he was shunted down the card and into the Test feud was because he bombed as a headliner.
Fuck it. If WWE were to sign someone the caliber of Steiner and slot him into the ME scene we'd never hear the end of it. There, I said it. This is what rankles with me about this entire situation. Steiner is a fucking joke of a signing, half a wrestler at three times the price with no long-term upside and no drawing power whatsoever. And even once they've signed him, do they put him to use putting over midcarders and solidifying their own stars? How about having Samoa Joe liquefy him in a one-off program? Of course not! Push him against Jarrett, Sting and Christian, three guys who made their names elsewhere! Screw all this "building our own product" crap!
The fact that nary a peep has been made about the insanity of TNA's decision just bugs the everlovin' shit out of me, it really does. We all want a great top-flight wrestling company to emerge at some point over the next coupla years. But sitting back and supporting crap just because it ain't WWE just gets you more crap. Even if Steiner WERE a justified purchase, even if he somehow miraculously managed to pull in a 3.2 rating every week, then what? We have yet another primetime show headlined by stars well past their sell-by date whilst the midcarders bust their asses in booking-free matches because, hey, no-one else draws, right?
Just absurd.
To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Originally posted by Tribal ProphetLook at Goldberg. If you were to judge him just on his WWE run, you'd think that someone would be out of their mind to give him a job at all, and yet when he was with WCW, he was part of the reason they almost put the WWE out of business.
If you look at it, WCW hit it's peak in the summer of '97 with the Luger win over Hogan in Detroit in the first 3 hour Nitro. The WWF's bottom was in winter '96/spring '97, and they had begun to steady the ship even as WCW was peaking. Coincidentally or not, after the debut and mega-push of the performer you mentioned, WCW declined while Vince steadily built up steam and eventually surpassed WCW in April of '98, position he would only lose on 2 or 3 individual occassions until the death of WCW 5 years ago today. God, it was 5 years ago today that the 'geniuses' in Cleveland cheered the name of Bagwell and doomed the InVasion before it began. As for Steiner: He could have been an all-time great if he had maintained his genetic shape from the time period of '89-'94. Once he completely altered his body type, I 've considered him unwatchable. As for his interviews, he's a pale imitation of Warrior without the made-up words.
I just can't believe that this decision was made without market research, surveys, etc. Spike is a big company with money - they don't just roll the dice based on what a bunch of people say on a message board.
No matter how good you think Samoa Joe is, the fact is that Steiner, Sting, Jarrett, and others have much more name recognition. Like it or not, the guys that were popular during the last big wrestling boom are going to be the ones that are trotted out by marketing. If 20 million people have seen or heard of someone, there is a greater chance of getting them to watch a program than by just putting out wrestling shows with unknowns. Now, you and I both know who Samoa Joe is - but if you went to a Nascar event with Steiner's picture and Samao Joe's - who do you think would be recognized more often?
How about AJ or Sting?
I'm not saying that it is doing great things for the short term value of the show, but the only way to get people to recognize AJ, Christian, Joe, etc -- is to actually get people to watch the show. If the old fogeys can do that, then I'm OK with it.
That said, why on earth is Konnan being portrayed as afraid of Bullet Bob? Talk about a stupid, self-serving move. I don't know if there is a lucrative over 60 market out there waiting to see an old guy go over the top on a team of Mexicans, but then I'd be contradicting my theory that these guys actually have market analysis skills...
I tend to agree with Old School -- well, my pessimistic side does -- and then I say, "man, he hasn't even *done* anything yet, let's get him in the ring and give him a chance." (That side may be over-optimistic.)
I suspect that the higher-ups at Spike had something to do with the hiring of Steiner. I have read on "the dirt sheets" (somewhere on 411, so probably from Meltzer or PWI) that Spike kicked in a big portion of Sting's salary because they want those big names. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case with Steiner as well.
Assuming this is all accurate, then it's sort of a "this is what you get when you shake hands with the devil" deal. They get on Spike TV, Spike gets some say in what goes on, and the doofuses at Spike want guys they remember from way back. (And ratings have been peaking on shows with Sting, at least, so the doofuses may have something here.)
We can only hope that the dependence on the old folks diminishes as TNA continues to build its own guys. A slow process, sure, and slower when the nostalgia crew is around, but not impossible -- for instance, it looks like they're pushing Joe out of the boundaries of the X Division without over-pushing him (with the upcoming Sabu match), and I think it'll go well.
As far as Konnan and Bob -- well, I think it's better than The Johnsons, but only marginally. I guess maybe it'll be a "no contest" (because I can't imagine that Konnan will win, so a "no contest" is the next best option) when the newest member of LAX (Low Ki? Hotstuff Hernandez? Savio Vega?) runs in and...um, gets into the cage...and...you know, I haven't really thought it through.
--K
(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 26.3.06 1346) Last 5 movies seen: Paradise Now - Dames - The Squid and the Whale - Everything is Illuminated - Howl's Moving Castle
TNA has been on Spike TV for six months now, being watched by almost a million people on a weekly basis, yet the only PPV as far as I'm aware to do a number significantly better than they were doing during the Fox Sports days (or even the Internet-only days) was for Sting's debut. Same thing with the Impact ratings.
I can't remember off the top of my head how many people were watching the Fox Sports show every week, but the fact buyrates never improved despite two/three/four/whatever times as many people watching every week may suggest that the people who matter don't really care enough about Styles/Daniels/Joe etc to pay to watch them have their monthly ***** MOTYC.
I'm not saying Steiner will have as much of an effect as Sting had, but I know I certainly made a point to watch the PPV when I heard he'd showed up.
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Originally posted by Guru ZimThat said, why on earth is Konnan being portrayed as afraid of Bullet Bob? Talk about a stupid, self-serving move. I don't know if there is a lucrative over 60 market out there waiting to see an old guy go over the top on a team of Mexicans, but then I'd be contradicting my theory that these guys actually have market analysis skills...
You know what's kinda so bad it's good about Bullet Bob? How he comes out there with his son, who cuts these 1997ish faux-street bad-boy promos that are in themselves pretty dated, then he introduces his dad, and suddenly it's like you're watching the DuMont network in 1953. I think it'd be awesome if they went to black and white when he starts talking.
As for Steiner, I always liked the guy. He can't wrestle, but he inhabits his character more than pretty much anybody. You don't doubt for a second that he's the unstable sociopath you see on TV. You could do what a previous poster suggested and hire a roided-up indy guy with decent promo skills and superior wrestling talent, but he probably wouldn't be able to sell the character so well. That was why he flopped in WWE -- they had no interest in the Scott Steiner character. You make him a babyface, you kill him.
Originally posted by oldschoolheroAnd how did WWE drop the ball at Royal Rumble 2003? Was Steiner being so bad that the crowd turned on him somehow their fault? He was made to look stronger than any other face challenger to Trips up until that point, and the only reason he was shunted down the card and into the Test feud was because he bombed as a headliner.
It was their fault because there is no way on God's green Earth that Steiner should have been made a face. They had no idea what to do with his character, and so just built him up and fed him to Triple H. The slow, unmovable, unstoppable lumbering monster DOES work in wrestlng, but only as a heel that terrifies all the faces. WCW did that, but the WWE couldn't because no one can ever be top heel if Triple H is involved.
Everyone's ringwork falls with time. I saw a Chris Benoit match from just a few years ago and it made me realize that other than his Five Moves Of Doom he's just the exact same chopping machine that Flair's turned into. His drop-off in ring work is easily ten times more than Steiner's in the same period (and yes, Benoit had a lot more to lose than Steiner did in the first place) but the WWE has always been able to use Benoit extremely effectively, and he's smart enough to hide the rest.
Destrucity's assessment of why Steiner worked so well in WCW but not in the WWE is dead on. The WWE had no interest in the Steiner character, they just wanted another name guy to feed to Triple H. If TNA is willing to use Steiner the way that Steiner should be used, his ringwork shouldn't even come into it. His character isn't one where he even needs to wrestle. He was great in WCW because he was a sociopath who just beat the shit out of people to the point where you were concerned that he didn't know it was supposed to be "fake". It wasn't his matches that got people involved in the show, it was "him", but he hasn't had the chance to be that guy in five years. Put him in a match once in a while to get it out of the way, but that's NOT how to use him.
Have him and Sting feud in the main events and get some viewers. There's no point in anyone pushing all their young guys if no one's watching the show. The old WCW formula works. Have past their prime main event guys bring in the fans, and let the midcarders you use to fill out the card steal the show. It's no different than how any sports team holds on to over the hill players while building up their rookies. Unfortunately, because of the way WCW was run behind the scenes, they were never able to pull the trigger and get rid of the veterans. They had to hold on to them forever, and so their rookies left for greener pastures. If Steiner, Sting, and others can get the young guys more people watching them, then they will get their own fan bases growing until they're ready (fan base-wise, which if the ratings are what I've been reading then they're not ready yet) for the main events. You take a backseat for a while to get more fans and therefore larger paychecks down the road. As long as the old guys are cycled out when their job is done, TNA won't be doing anything that every single successful wrestling company has always done. There's no place in the world that has nothing but rookies. Even indy shows advertise only "Road Warrior Animal" as their draw.
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