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The W - Current Events & Politics - Interesting note on the proposed Kerry / McCain ticket
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Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
It looks like it is not going to happen.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/ news?tmpl=story&cid=514& e=3&u=/ap/20040612/ap_on_el_pr/ kerry_mccain



    Kerry has asked McCain as recently as late last month to consider becoming his running mate, but the Arizona senator said he's not interested, said a Democratic official who spoke on condition of anonymity because Kerry has insisted that his deliberations be kept private. A second official familiar with the conversations confirmed the account, and said the Arizona senator made it clear he won't change his mind.


    Both officials said Kerry stopped short of offering McCain the job, sparing himself an outright rejection that would make his eventual running mate look like a second choice.



It's interesting that this is coming from an unnamed Democratic official. I'm wondering if they felt threatened by the perception that no one is really looking forward to any of the Democratic candidates being added to the ticket.



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Since: 1.5.03
From: California, Home of THE LAKERS!

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77

I think that The Daily Show has been right all along in calling the Democrat's strategy "Run FROM the White House."
It's being seen as a Geraldine Ferraro-esque political death sentence.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.08
In 1992, it also seemed like no one wanted to run on the Democratic ticket against the first President Bush. I remember an SNL skit where Phil Hartman as Mario Cuomo trying to dissuade voters by saying he had mob ties.

So, the tide can turn...
Dahak
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Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.39
Why should McCain take the dem veep spot anyway? If Kerry wins he can't run until 12. If Kerry loses it pretty much kills his spot of over becoming President.
It's not like Cheney is going to be a strong canidate in 08 anyway. He will be old and still have all the PR problems he has now. Actually I wonder why Bush doesn't dump Cheney to be honest.



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.35
The reasoning why McCain never made sense as a Dem VP candidate:

1) McCain's Senate seat is up this year. Very tough to run for re-election as a Republican while running for VP as a Democrat. From a theoritical perspective, it would have been possible for McCain to do it if his seat was protected for 2-4 more years, but tough to run on a party ticket while attacking a party ticket.

2) The history of fusion tickets: Since the split in the Democratic Party after the election of 1824, fusion tickets have won twice: 1840 when the Whigs put ultra-state righter Tyler as V.P., and 1864 when the Republicans ran as the Unionists and put Democrat Andrew Johnson in as V.P. Both times this happened, the President died within a month of inauguration, and someone who was despised by most of the party took the Presidency for nearly the full term.

3) This is a theoretical take-off from point 2. Suppose Kerry is elected, and then has a heart attack on Jan. 21st '05 and succumbs to the ailment. That leaves McCain with 4 years as President. To take it to the next step, the Constitution has been amended since the fusion tickets of the 1800's, thus causing McCain to choose a V.P. Should the House and Senate not shift hands in the '04 election, said V.P. would have to be approved by a Republican House and Senate. This would leave 2 likely candidates for the V.P. slot: Joe Lieberman, who is considered too conservative by most Democrats but still would have some of the taint of Gore that could prevent Republicans from approving him, or McCain's old friend and probable V.P. if he had been elected in '00 Fred Thompson, the former Republican Senator. Should it be Thompson, that would mean the President would be a quasi-Republican, the VP a Republican, and the House and Senate Republican, with the Democrats unable to complain because they would have lacked the foresight to see such a scenario unfolding, and thus possibly setting the way for another 16 years of Republican control of the White House, all without having a Bush to target.

(edited by redsoxnation on 12.6.04 1352)

(edited by redsoxnation on 12.6.04 1353)
rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.21
Kerry wanting McCain on the ticket is him trying to counter Bush's strength in having a Vice President that has no desire to be President. Cheney is very effective, cold and calculating. And he can get dirty if he has to.

Most Presidents are never that close to their Vice Presidents. Reagan supposedly didn't care for Bush I, Bush I didn't like Quayle, and Clinton didn't really like Gore. Because most Vices are always looking out for their own future Presidential aspirations. GW Bush doesn't have this problem with Cheney. Cheney is one of the most involved Vices in history. Some believe he actually runs things in the White House for the most part. And since Bush/ Cheney are presenting themselves as capable leaders guarding Americas doors against Terrorists, Kerry wants to show the same image by recruiting the toughest man alive John McCain.




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Since: 9.12.01
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    It looks like it is not going to happen.
Did anybody believe it WAS going to happen? Seriously, now.



CRZ
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Since: 28.3.02
From: Ohio

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.27
To add to redsoxnation's list:

4) When John McCain was in a POW camp in North Vietnam, his captors would play speeches from Americans denouncing the war in an attempt to break his spirit _ including anti-war speeches made by John Kerry.
avonhun
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Since: 21.4.04

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.48
reading about this recently i now understand that they just dont agree on any of the issues. there is no possible way it would work.
Roy.
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Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
    Originally posted by Crimedog
    To add to redsoxnation's list:

    4) When John McCain was in a POW camp in North Vietnam, his captors would play speeches from Americans denouncing the war in an attempt to break his spirit _ including anti-war speeches made by John Kerry.


I don't recall this being an issue. Sure, it's a fact that anti-war speeches and demonstrations were played, but John McCain and John Kerry have both said that they are good friends and talk on a regular basis. If McCain had a problem with this fact, then I doubt that him and Kerry would ever be linked together.

Rep. Sam Johnson (another Hanoi Hilton POW) has a huge problem with Kerry, and has said so on a regular basis, calling him "Hanoi John" and a traitor. McCain and Johnson often are seen together at public events, and McCain has had plenty of opportunity to blast Kerry like Johnson does. He hasn't, and I haven't even seen McCain address the issue.



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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
To be honest, I've never understood why when people protested against the Vietnam War, they protested against both the government and the troops. Sure, there were atrocities that have taken place in Vietnam. But there have been some atrocities in Iraq, too. And I still don't hear any Iraq war protesters protesting against the troops. On the other hand, they've been very outspoken against the Bush administration, the CIA, Donald Rumsfeld and other various government officials.

Maybe we learned from Vietnam that protesting against our troops is a stupid thing to do, when they're just following orders. Hmm.

Oh... anyway, back on topic. A Kerry/McCain ticket would rock the house, but I'd be absolutely stunned if it actually happened.



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Since: 11.7.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    To be honest, I've never understood why when people protested against the Vietnam War, they protested against both the government and the troops. Sure, there were atrocities that have taken place in Vietnam. But there have been some atrocities in Iraq, too. And I still don't hear any Iraq war protesters protesting against the troops.
I think people realized that it is moronic to do so. The fact that Kerry's lies about the troops thirty years ago are still remembered and will be a contributing factor to the impending landslide makes them realize that criticizing the troops themselves are a losing proposition.



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Since: 8.10.03
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.26
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    To be honest, I've never understood why when people protested against the Vietnam War, they protested against both the government and the troops. Sure, there were atrocities that have taken place in Vietnam. But there have been some atrocities in Iraq, too. And I still don't hear any Iraq war protesters protesting against the troops. On the other hand, they've been very outspoken against the Bush administration, the CIA, Donald Rumsfeld and other various government officials.

    Maybe we learned from Vietnam that protesting against our troops is a stupid thing to do, when they're just following orders. Hmm.

    Oh... anyway, back on topic. A Kerry/McCain ticket would rock the house, but I'd be absolutely stunned if it actually happened.


Not to sound like an old fart but you had to live through it to understand. I am not justifying it but it made more sense in the context of the era. Also, unlike the last three wars in 1991, 2001, and 2003, we had a lot of very graphic footage to chew on as well as in print.



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drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
From: New Hampshire

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.65
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"But if he plays a character where I will eventually be given the option to murder in some macabre fashion then I am all for it." (SeVen )


    Originally posted by Grimis
    I think people realized that it is moronic to do so. The fact that Kerry's lies about the troops thirty years ago are still remembered and will be a contributing factor to the impending landslide makes them realize that criticizing the troops themselves are a losing proposition.


Landslide? Either you're really cynical about the voting public (with good reason, if you ask me) or delusional.

This election's going to be a lot closer than either side thinks.



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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.26
    Originally posted by drjayphd
      Originally posted by Grimis
      I think people realized that it is moronic to do so. The fact that Kerry's lies about the troops thirty years ago are still remembered and will be a contributing factor to the impending landslide makes them realize that criticizing the troops themselves are a losing proposition.


    Landslide? Either you're really cynical about the voting public (with good reason, if you ask me) or delusional.

    This election's going to be a lot closer than either side thinks.


Agreed. The Dems are voting Dem and the Reps Rep this year. That undecided 20% will likely wait til late til decide and I agree it will be close.



Perception is reality
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by drjayphd
        Originally posted by Grimis
        I think people realized that it is moronic to do so. The fact that Kerry's lies about the troops thirty years ago are still remembered and will be a contributing factor to the impending landslide makes them realize that criticizing the troops themselves are a losing proposition.


      Landslide? Either you're really cynical about the voting public (with good reason, if you ask me) or delusional.

      This election's going to be a lot closer than either side thinks.


    Agreed. The Dems are voting Dem and the Reps Rep this year. That undecided 20% will likely wait til late til decide and I agree it will be close.





I wouldn't say landslide for the Republicans (unless something bizarre happened and New York, New Jersey or California went Republican), but if the toss-up states that Bush lost in '00 were to break late for him (Pennsylvania, Michigan, Oregon, Wisconsin), then what could be a close election could turn into an impressive electoral margin.



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rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.49
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by ekedolphin
      To be honest, I've never understood why when people protested against the Vietnam War, they protested against both the government and the troops. Sure, there were atrocities that have taken place in Vietnam. But there have been some atrocities in Iraq, too. And I still don't hear any Iraq war protesters protesting against the troops.
    I think people realized that it is moronic to do so. The fact that Kerry's lies about the troops thirty years ago are still remembered and will be a contributing factor to the impending landslide makes them realize that criticizing the troops themselves are a losing proposition.



And the fact that Bushes lies about the war over the last year will be a contributing factor to Kerrys Landslide victory making Bush realize that lying to the American people and the world is an even more losing proposition.


That felt good....



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tomk
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Since: 30.7.02

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.22
Uhh. Outside of Lincoln/Johnson have their been any other pairings of President from one political party,Vice Presidents from opposing party?

Cause Lincoln/Johnson is ownly one I can think of.

Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.59
William Henry Harrison --- one of the Simpsons' mediocre presidents..."I died in thirty days!" --- was a Whig, and after he passed away, John Tyler took over. I'm not sure what political distinction he was, but it sure wasn't a Whig, since the whole party pretty much collasped after Harrison died.



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    William Henry Harrison --- one of the Simpsons' mediocre presidents..."I died in thirty days!" --- was a Whig, and after he passed away, John Tyler took over. I'm not sure what political distinction he was, but it sure wasn't a Whig, since the whole party pretty much collasped after Harrison died.





Tyler was an ultra-states righter who was on the ticket as it was designed as an anti Jacksonian Democrat/anti Martin Van Buren ticket in 1840. Whigs did win the election of 1848, but the problem was the slavery issue was starting to hit center stage, and with a national party that was built upon being anti Jacksonian Democrat, it dissipated as its national coalition reverted towards regional lines rather than upon a national philosophy. Also, the death/retirement of the national leaders of the Whig Party in this time period helped hasten its collapse between the election of 1852 and its non-existance by the election of 1856.



What's the difference between Sidney Ponson and a bucket of shit? The bucket.
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