Last week's previews made this episode look Stannis and Theon Greyjoy heavy so I was dreading it. It turned out better than I thought.
Stannis and Ser Davos makes it to Braavos to get a loan from the Iron Bank. Asked what his credit score was, Stannis just says he is a legit Baratheon by blood and Tommen was a Lannister bastard from incest. They get denied as they have too many soldiers, not enough ships, and produce nothing to feed the soldiers. Davos makes a last minute plea, showing his chopped off fingers to prove that Stannis is a man of his word. Davos says that after Tywin dies, there won't be anyone who will takeover for him. He somehow convinces Mycroft Holmes to give them a loan.
Yara Greyjoy invades where Theon was being kept on a mission to rescue her brother. When they finally get to him, he bites her hand and runs back into the cage Ramsey kept him in. He kept insisting he is not Theon and is Reek. Ramsey releases the hounds Mr. Burns style and Yara and her army runs off into their boats. She declares that her brother is dead. After that, Ramsey gives Reek a bath and wants him to play the role of "Theon Greyjoy" to kill a evil king in a castle.
Daenarys is listening to the people and their complaints. A goat farmer told her that her dragon killed his goat herd so Danny will give him their worth 3 times. One noble guy came and said his father was one of the masters and was crucified. He wants a proper burial. It turns out the father was protesting against the crucification of the slave children so he was kind of innocent yet got punished. Danny allowed him to bury his father. Asked how many more were in line, she was told over 200. Damn, it's going to be a long day.
Prince Oberyn attends his first committee meeting. They talk about Daenarys heading towards them with all her unsullied army, second sons, and 3 dragons. After the meeting, Oberyn confronts Varys about his accent... he must be for Essos where the unsullied are from! Varys was surprised as he dropped his accent but Oberyn still can tell. Varys says he is not interested in little boys or women, but looks at the Iron Throne as something he desires.
The Trial of Tyrion. They cuff him as he stands trial. Tommen recuses himself and lets his grandfather Tywin be the judge with Prince Oberyn and the Lord Mace Tyrell. Pretty much everyone is lying to exaggerating the truth to make Tyrion look guilty. Even Varys. Tyrion ask Varys if he remembered what he told him and Varys said he never forgets. They take a recess and Jaime Lannister has a talk with Tywin. Jaime can't have kids as he took a vow as the King's guard but if Tywin spares Tyrion he will resign and carry the Lannister line. Tywin agrees, they make a deal for Tyrion to be found guilty, Tyrion begs for mercy, and Tywin will banish him to the Night's Watch where he will spend the remainder of his life. In return, Jaime will go to Casterly Rock, get a proper wife, and produce proper Lannister children. Jaime tells Tyrion to be quiet and what to do after he is found guilty. Tyrion points out Joffrey offered Ned Stark the same deal and look what that got him.
The next witness... is Shae. She lies that Tyrion forced her to do embarrassing sexual things to him and he killed Joffrey so Sansa would finally let him sleep with her. Tyrion is so hurt, he wanted to "confess." He didn't kill Joffrey but he wished he did, he wished he didn't save the ingrateful crowd from Stannis. He said he was guilty of being a Dwarf and has been on trial his whole life. He demands a trail by combat! Great acting by Peter Dinklage.
You had to know they weren't going to kill off a major character like Tyrion (he said stupidly, remember the fate of Joffrey and half the Stark family) yet I'm fascinated to see exactly how he's going to get out of King's Landing alive. Does he pick Bronn or Jamie as his champion? Can Tyrion even trust Bronn anymore given how he apparently wasn't being truthful about Shae's departure?
Davos is maybe my favourite character on the show, so I was pleased to see him get a rare chance to actually shine and prove his worth to Stannis.
This episode contained my favourite underrated GoT subplot, which is whenever characters in Westeros address Daenerys' rise in the east.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
Had mixed feelings about this episode. Everything following the Greyjoy invasion of the Dreadfort was amazing, especially Tyrion's trial/show closer. Also, the portrayals of Prince Martel and Mace Tyrell are fantastic.
But man, I cannot get behind the liberties the show took with the Ironborn scene. I get that Theon/Reek/Yara's stories are going to be happening earlier/differently than in the books for obvious reasons. The action itself was fine, but writing an original plot where Yara INVADES THE DAMN DREADFORT to save her brother, kicks tons of ass, and has a showdown with shirtless Ramsay, only for her and her hardass men to run away like cowards when the unarmored psycho starts waving his keys for the dog cages left a really bad taste in my mouth. Stabbing the unarmored Ramsay while he's faffing about with the keys to the hound cage would have been the right move here.
The heir to the Iron Islands confronted the possible heir to the warden of the North AFTER INVADING THE DREADFORT, and then promptly just LEAVES. I was on edge that entire scene because holy crap, given those circumstances, SOMEONE has to die or be taken prisoner. Right? I guess not.
I'm not saying the show can't deviate from the books, I just hope that all the future "original" action scenes used to fill time aren't concluded by dumb TV tropes. (See last week's example where mass murderer Karl turns his back on Jon Snow while he is holding a sword specifically so we could get the awesome blade-to-mouth kill shot.)
Originally posted by ShadowhendrixHad mixed feelings about this episode. Everything following the Greyjoy invasion of the Dreadfort was amazing, especially Tyrion's trial/show closer. Also, the portrayals of Prince Martel and Mace Tyrell are fantastic.
But man, I cannot get behind the liberties the show took with the Ironborn scene. I get that Theon/Reek/Yara's stories are going to be happening earlier/differently than in the books for obvious reasons. The action itself was fine, but writing an original plot where Yara INVADES THE DAMN DREADFORT to save her brother, kicks tons of ass, and has a showdown with shirtless Ramsay, only for her and her hardass men to run away like cowards when the unarmored psycho starts waving his keys for the dog cages left a really bad taste in my mouth. Stabbing the unarmored Ramsay while he's faffing about with the keys to the hound cage would have been the right move here.
The heir to the Iron Islands confronted the possible heir to the warden of the North AFTER INVADING THE DREADFORT, and then promptly just LEAVES. I was on edge that entire scene because holy crap, given those circumstances, SOMEONE has to die or be taken prisoner. Right? I guess not.
I'm not saying the show can't deviate from the books, I just hope that all the future "original" action scenes used to fill time aren't concluded by dumb TV tropes. (See last week's example where mass murderer Karl turns his back on Jon Snow while he is holding a sword specifically so we could get the awesome blade-to-mouth kill shot.)
I agree with all of this. I haven't felt the righteous indignation of "that's not how it went down!" from watching a show more than I have during the past three episodes. I know, I know; the TV show is supposed to be its own distinct media. But it's damn hard to reconcile the feelings that I have and it's impossible, for me, not to compare the two and look at them as the same. That being said, I don't like how this version is developing and I think it's doing a disservice to the source material. Of course I will keep watching and see how it all plays out. Hopefully they can bring me back. But as it stands now, I'm not nearly as invested in the show as I was/am in the books.
Agreed about the Ironborn parts, it felt so pointless. Just a waste of time.
I did enjoy the trial, but it felt like so little else happened this episode. We checked in with Dany very briefly, to see she'll be doing a lot of nothing for a while. Found out Stannis got some money. We watched the Ironborn RUN AWAY! Some conversations related to the trial. No Bran, no Wall, no Wildlings, no Arya, no Brienne and Pod.
Also, oudom, if someone needed your recaps to figure out what's going on, they would be totally lost.
Originally posted by ShadowhendrixThe action itself was fine, but writing an original plot where Yara INVADES THE DAMN DREADFORT to save her brother, kicks tons of ass, and has a showdown with shirtless Ramsay, only for her and her hardass men to run away like cowards when the unarmored psycho starts waving his keys for the dog cages left a really bad taste in my mouth. Stabbing the unarmored Ramsay while he's faffing about with the keys to the hound cage would have been the right move here.
Wow, that was so bad. Also, considering how long we watched Yara's face as she just stood there while Ramsay was unlocking the cages, I didnt't think an escape was even possible. I actually thought that was the last we were going to see of Yara.
Dany is getting too big for her britches. I like her less and less with each appearance.
Trial was incredible, but (forgive the stupid question) what necklace was Pycelle holding? I thought the necklace with the poison was with Littlefinger.
They're trying to pad the story with action, and it's becoming a bit silly. I mean, I don't mind adding some filler to boost the excitement, but this story is not a blood fest just for the sake of blood-festing, and there are still ways to do it without being stupid.
'I must rescue my tortured and mutilated brother, your Prince, and we will get our vengeance!!! ... Never mind, he's dead. Let's go home.'
However, they atoned for some of these sins by giving Peter Dinklage the screen time to simply be awesome. I don't know if Tyrion figured out the specifics to Tywin's plan, or if he just knew that he'd get to disrupt whatever was in the works by 'confessing' - but Dinklage was just awesome. Seething rage, betrayal and the relief of finally being able to tell his family what he really thinks of them.
They really don't need constant action scenes to keep things interesting...
The frustrating thing is, this show's best original material is having non-pov characters interacting to flesh them out more than any book reader ever could have imagined. I wish the show would give us more time at Pyke to let us care about the place. Instead I'm worried that Yara will return home to find a few Ironborn stories have already advanced off screen.
I don't mind spending so much time with the Lannisters because the whole family is just amazing. Dinklage, Headey, Coster-Waldau and Dance might be the four best actors on the show and Pedro Pascal is this year's Rookie of the Year, he's had limited time but I've liked him so much that he's been added to my list of Game of Thrones actors whose work I will always take a look at.
I agree with the sentiments on the Ironborn. Once Yara and Ramsay faced off one of them had to die or there was no point. It's a shame they spent time on that and not on Arya/Hound or Brienne/Pod. I can't say I'm surprised though, they could have done even more with Brienne/Jaime but they cut that buddy road trip short too.
If they wanted to add some random Ironborn action then I'd rather see some Euron Greyjoy adventures.
Here's the thing: The Ironborn (in the books) are kinda lame. Their parts of the story tend to drag more than any of the other perspectives but that's by design. After thousands of pages of the insights of the "main" characters, GRRM introduced The Ironborn with a somewhat cold opening and forced readers to switch gears from the characters they grew accustomed to, and had feelings for, to these new people who are vastly different from the rest of the Westeros population. They drain you as you read about them. And that's the best way they could've been presented. They are different, they are draining. Their world isn't remotely close to the same as the Lannister's, Stark's, Tully's, or anyone else. But they do wind up being very interesting. I don't think it would've been possible to introduce them in the same way for the TV show; there would've been riots in the interwebs if this whole season was devoted to just The Ironborn and The Dornish. There are compelling and creepy tales to be told about both groups; the writers just don't know how to tell them apparently. Euron would be great, but I think the biggest disservice is ignoring The Damphair. As a character study, SoIaF is great. GoT the show isn't.
It is subjective if the Ironborn get better. Book Five they shine a bit, but a lot of has to do with the fact, we are introduced to more characters in book 5 that are even lamer. There is a great moment in that book for them, but its really the only good scene in a book filled with bad ones. I am holding judgement on them til the end of the series. As for them on the show, they just come off as complete assholes after attacking the Starks and nothing really changes that.
Originally posted by lotjxIt is subjective if the Ironborn get better.
Next sentence:
Originally posted by lotjx Book Five they shine a bit, but a lot of has to do with the fact [that] we are introduced to more characters in book 5 that are even lamer.
Really quick turnaround there. Well, we agreed for one sentence, at least.
Originally posted by lotjx As for them on the show, they just come off as complete assholes after attacking the Starks and nothing really changes that.
Could you clarify your point here? The thread was talking about how underwritten these characters were in the show/books, and your newest complaint is that they were assholes. I don't know how the alignment of their morality fits into the discussion of how complex/fleshed out the characters are.
Can't say much good for this episode. It wasn't particularly bad or anything, but it had a really tough act to follow after last week's awesome rap battle between Cleveland Jr. and Kanye West.
Thread rated: 5.32
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