One more Wrestlecrappy aspect of that match that I didn't even notice until Keller pointed it out over at the Torch:
Remember that bit where Nick Patrick was dead, JBL had just covered Taker, and Jordan dragged Patrick into the ring and used Patrick's arm to count two before Taker kicked out? Was Jordan suddenly stricken with an attack of conscience that prevented him from making the three-count anyway?
You can't compare booing a face to booing a national anthem. The WWE used to encourage us to cheer whoever we wanted and not who we were told to. This is what led to Steve Austin and The Rock's rise in popularity. They were basically just heels who the fans loved.
Originally posted by LionJeetSinghYou can't compare booing a face to booing a national anthem. The WWE used to encourage us to cheer whoever we wanted and not who we were told to. This is what led to Steve Austin and The Rock's rise in popularity. They were basically just heels who the fans loved.
How is this any different?
YEAH! I'm with him. Hell, I was kissing Triple H's ass in '99, when everyone was hatin on him. Mainly because he was really hot, but still. This is America, and I pay to react how I want. Nothing wrong with the Canadians doing it, they're real honest folk. I do it because I'm honest. We know the difference, but if we just think certain superstars are annoying, no matter how popular they are, ain't no shame in booing them, I say.
Originally posted by LionJeetSinghYou can't compare booing a face to booing a national anthem. The WWE used to encourage us to cheer whoever we wanted and not who we were told to. This is what led to Steve Austin and The Rock's rise in popularity. They were basically just heels who the fans loved.
How is this any different?
As stated, that the obvious difference here was that EVERY face was being booed, as opposed just a really cool heel or two getting cheered for good reason. Austin got cheered against Bret at WM 13 in Chicago(now THERES a better crowd), but they didn't come across as unappreciative, obnoxious punks for the entire show. They still cheered other faces. And aside from Bret-Austin, 13 wasn't exactly one of the grander Wrestlemanias.
Seriously, if they really found the show to be so lackluster then fucking leave. They don't understand just how lucky they are to be such a consistent recepient of major WWE cards, and of the many towns who would be so appreciative to receive just one(cough..Rochester). If Vince disapproves of excessive occurances of this behavior, then why does he continually grant them major shows?
Originally posted by darkmatcherIf Vince disapproves of excessive occurances of this behavior, then why does he continually grant them major shows?
Money...Toronto put 68,000+ asses in the Skydome two years ago and sold out the ACC for SummerSlam in about 2 hours, plus sell out or damn near sell out every time they ever put a show there. They're a collective pain in the ass as a group, but they're a collective pain in the ass that comes through with their wallets.
Seriously, if they really found the show to be so lackluster then fucking leave. They don't understand just how lucky they are to be such a consistent recepient of major WWE cards, and of the many towns who would be so appreciative to receive just one(cough..Rochester).
NOBODY found the show lackluster. Nobody in that arena had a miserable time.
There was just something in the water that night... For whatever reason, everyone was in a really goofy mood. I knew something was up from the minute I arrived at 4:30, and saw fans EVERYWHERE, many of them sporting Evolution and Randy Orton t-shirts. There was a "heel" section of fans parading around, starting chants like "BRET HART SUCKS", "HBK", "TRI-PLE H", and it was working.
It wasn't fans that were unappreciative. It was simply a night to pay tribute to heels. And once everyone else is going, it's INFECTIOUS. I know I certainly am not one to boo Edge. In fact, he's one of my favorites. But when everyone has lost their damn minds, and is having hands down the time of their lives - join in! It was harmless insanity.
Nobody was hurt. WWE can brush it off as "Crazy Canadians". If they never come back, I'll have memories. It just felt like I was among 18,000 friends who were determined to act like idiots. And if you'd been there, I hardly doubt you'd be sitting in your seat, arms crossed and sneering. You'd have been laughing right along with everyone else, with a giant smile on your face, joining in.
It's a show, and we as fans are given the option to react however we please. Nobody is going to shell out $80 and be told how to react by Vince McMahon. I won't apologize for my behavior or anyone else's - and I wish that every wrestling fan at some point has the chance to experience just a surreal environment like that someday.
As a member of said crowd, I would like to say Screw you to the smark fans and to some of you on the board. I will cheer who I want to cheer, however on this evening I was totally against all the cheers sans Cena, Rey and Y2J. I am not leaving an event that I have spent well over $200 just so the tv audience can appericate it more or at least delude themselves into thinking that JBL is a worth champion. Its not like Vince is going to meet me at the door and had me a refund. I paid to see this crap, I'm doing what I want to do there.
Lets face it, the show sucked. It had no huge surprises, we have known since the last part of July Orton would be champ and that JBL was going to win. I know why the WWE makes you pay before advertising a card like this, because it would have been half full. This was the worst SummerSlam in some years and I'm sorry I waisted my money on it. Orton has Lex Luger written all over him and JBL makes David Arquette's WCW run look crediable. I still don't believe we went from Eddie/Benoit as champs to this mess. Thanks again, backstage politics and idiot writers.
Originally posted by LionJeetSinghYou can't compare booing a face to booing a national anthem. The WWE used to encourage us to cheer whoever we wanted and not who we were told to. This is what led to Steve Austin and The Rock's rise in popularity. They were basically just heels who the fans loved.
How is this any different?
As stated, that the obvious difference here was that EVERY face was being booed, as opposed just a really cool heel or two getting cheered for good reason.
The reason the Toronto crowd cheered the heels is because we just really like the heels up here. We're a heel town. It's as simple as that.
Originally posted by Shem the PenmanOne more Wrestlecrappy aspect of that match that I didn't even notice until Keller pointed it out over at the Torch:
Remember that bit where Nick Patrick was dead, JBL had just covered Taker, and Jordan dragged Patrick into the ring and used Patrick's arm to count two before Taker kicked out? Was Jordan suddenly stricken with an attack of conscience that prevented him from making the three-count anyway?
I call that more of a "nice touch". I thought it was really funny and clever.
"Nobody was hurt. WWE can brush it off as "Crazy Canadians". If they never come back, I'll have memories. It just felt like I was among 18,000 friends who were determined to act like idiots. And if you'd been there, I hardly doubt you'd be sitting in your seat, arms crossed and sneering. You'd have been laughing right along with everyone else, with a giant smile on your face, joining in.
It's a show, and we as fans are given the option to react however we please. Nobody is going to shell out $80 and be told how to react by Vince McMahon. I won't apologize for my behavior or anyone else's - and I wish that every wrestling fan at some point has the chance to experience just a surreal environment like that someday."
It's nice that you had a good time. Really it is. But it's kinda galling to sit watching something that's having the energy sucked out of it by the live audience, just so they can have their own little version of fun. It's the equivalent of a handful of people starting a foodfight and throwing chairs around at a party for 100 guests-it's a ton of fun for the people taking part, but for the rest of the folks there it kinda ruins the evening. There were hundreds of thousands of people who parted with cash to watch the show on Sunday, not just the 18,000 in attendance, and I daresay a large percentage of them would have jumped at the chance to pay full whack for an arena ticket. I know I would, but I never get the chance to due to a severe case of living in England. But instead the home-watchers got lumbered with a show that that was thrown totally out-of-balance by a crowd that didn't seem to give a crap that they were watching a wrestling show.
"Lets face it, the show sucked. It had no huge surprises, we have known since the last part of July Orton would be champ and that JBL was going to win. I know why the WWE makes you pay before advertising a card like this, because it would have been half full. This was the worst SummerSlam in some years and I'm sorry I waisted my money on it. Orton has Lex Luger written all over him and JBL makes David Arquette's WCW run look crediable. I still don't believe we went from Eddie/Benoit as champs to this mess. Thanks again, backstage politics and idiot writers."
Stop watching man. Just stop watching. It's obvious that they're headed in directions over the next six months that are gonna drive you batshit, so turn off the TV and come back after WrestleMania, because it'll save you a lot of time and tears. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or rude, just stating a fact.
Once upon a time in China, some believe, around the year one double-ought three, head priest of the White Lotus Clan, Pai Mei was walking down the road, contemplating whatever it is that a man of Pai Mei's infinite power contemplates - which is another way of saying "who knows" - when a Shaolin monk appeared, traveling in the opposite direction. As the monk and the priest crossed paths, Pai Mei, in a practically unfathomable display of generosity, gave the monk the slightest of nods. The nod was not returned. Now was it the intention of the Shaolin monk to insult Pai Mei or did he just fail to see the generous social gesture? The motives of the monk remain unknown. What is known, are the consequences. The next morning Pai Mei appeared at the Shaolin Temple and demanded of the Temple's head abbot that he offer Pai Mei his neck to repay the insult. The Abbot at first tried to console Pai Mei, only to find Pai Mei was inconsolable. So began the massacre of the Shaolin Temple and all 60 of the monks inside at the fists of the White Lotus. And so began the legend of Pai Mei's five point palm exploding heart technique.
Several observations after watching the PPV last night: - The crowd was weird indeed. I don't think we (or Vince or anyone) can tell them how to respond but it was just weird. Good to know you had fun, but still these weren't your common reactions, not even 'we are a heel town' reactions. Cos they cheered Jericho and not heelish Edge or Batista..they didn't cheer the Dudleyz..etc..It must have been the water indeed (or the beer?)
- The limo spot was horrible. Not sure if it would have looked better if that guy hadnt jumped around on it. Unless he wasnt supposed to go through it looked very lame that the roof split open like a piece of paper..
- The matches were actually pretty decent. Some were a bit short maybe but everything looked decent. Taker-JBL was a bit less entertaining than I had hoped (wasnt the crazy brawl that i thought it would be) but everything else was decent or better.
- Orlando stopping the count made sense. He couldnt believe Taker kicked out and stopped dead in his tracks. Interesting thoughts..I actually think matches have been ended and awarded to someone after the knocked out ref's hands were slapped on the mat by someone else (somehow i seem to recall this happening during the austin-mcmahon feud at some point)
A Fan, if you want surprises go have some mystery meat in a caffetaria. For us 'smarks' 99% of what happens in wrestling isn't a surprise. We all expected Benoit to win at WM, didn't complain about that did we? JBL isn't doing a bad job as champion per se. His character is working well it seems. Orton..I'll see how it goes.
(edited by dMp on 18.8.04 1752) *sigh* Why bother?
When the audience gets paid to be part of the show, then you can all complain about their "performance". Until then, anyone who plunks down the cash to be in the audience is free to cheer who they want to cheer and boo who they want to boo... and if it ruins the show for you guys at home, don't blame Canada, blame yourselves.
Or blame the wrestlers, the writers, etc. who seemingly can't anticipate different reactions from different crowds and aren't prepared to ad lib around it.
Remember, Toronto is the town that booed the Rock and cheered Hogan. Why? Because we felt like it.
Originally posted by StiltonWhen the audience gets paid to be part of the show, then you can all complain about their "performance". Until then, anyone who plunks down the cash to be in the audience is free to cheer who they want to cheer and boo who they want to boo... and if it ruins the show for you guys at home, don't blame Canada, blame yourselves.
Or blame the wrestlers, the writers, etc. who seemingly can't anticipate different reactions from different crowds and aren't prepared to ad lib around it.
Remember, Toronto is the town that booed the Rock and cheered Hogan. Why? Because we felt like it.
How can the WWE really "ad lib" around the storylines though? Should the WWE give up 3 months of face Eugene buildup to pacify one obnoxious crowd? And I'm glad that they didn't adlib because sometimes you can turn a crowd through sheer force.
It's just that this crowd didn't seem to want to do anything. They were paying all that money to sit on their hands through the first 4 matches, and then they woke up and went batty.
This is sad because I usually love Canadian crowds, just not when it affects the entire night in adverse ways.
Joe Wilson (looking at Interocitor manual)- Hey, here's something my wife could use in the house... Crow T. Robot- A man? Joe Wilson- An interocitor incorporating an electron sorter. Cal Meechum- Oh, she'd probably gain 20 pounds while it did all the work for her. Tom Servo- Cal, you bitch!
Originally posted by Stilton Until then, anyone who plunks down the cash to be in the audience is free to cheer who they want to cheer and boo who they want to boo... and if it ruins the show for you guys at home, don't blame Canada, blame yourselves.
Why the hell should we blame ourselves ? Because we weren't psychic knowing that the crowd was going to be the way it was ?
Well, the fans there all paid and rightfully got to do what they wanted, and I guess that's what counts in the end.
P.S. I hope they enjoy all those future Smackdown tapings that will be coming their way in the future.
"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
Originally posted by TorchslasherHow can the WWE really "ad lib" around the storylines though? Should the WWE give up 3 months of face Eugene buildup to pacify one obnoxious crowd?
I seem to recall Eugene getting less and less cheers as the weeks went on, and even heering a few boos the RAW before Summerslam. Same with Edge.
It seems more like that's the way the overall audience was starting to lean (also with the Orton cheers), and the Toronto crowd merely acted the same, but only more so.
Plus, some have been saying "All the faces got booed" and that isn't true. Edge and Eugene were the only ones that got consistantly booed, there were some small boos for Eddie and Benoit at first, but they died down quickly.
It was really more that the heels were being cheered, than the faces being booed.
Originally posted by TorchslasherHow can the WWE really "ad lib" around the storylines though?
Considering that professional wrestlers pride themselves on being the "best one-take performers in the world", and considering how many things scould possibly go wrong during a match, including, but not limited to: injuries, strange crowd reactions, idiots dancing on limos, etc.... wouldn't you think that the ability to ad lib and improvise "in the ring" should be an essential skill for a professional wrestler? The ability to channel whatever the red-herring is into something that more or less jibes with the story-line? I would think so. And hey, I'm not saying it's necessarily easy, I'm just saying it's important.
(edited by Stilton on 19.8.04 0133) "Have you seen my baseball?"
You would think the WWE learned their lesson about giving Toronto another PPV after most of the SkyDome fans walked out on the Triple H vs Jericho with "Voice" ringside at WM18 a couple years ago.
The Best though was when the fan in Edmonton on RAW did a run-in on the RVD/Eddy G. match.
Canadians!
(edited by CajunMan on 19.8.04 1729) I'm CajunMan and I approve this message.
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Taken from http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=16317 Former Northwest star and WWE wrestler clinging to life today Dave@wrestlingobserver.