Another problem with the Undertaker thing is that you can never really tell in wrestling when it's someone's "last hurrah," "final run," or "farewell tour."
If there was any real faith that UT wouldn't be called back a year down the road to attempt a ratings/buyrate spike, it would make sense to have one last Retirement Match, but we all know how this stuff works, and we know it's not the case.
Hogan just had his "farewell tour" in WWE in 2002, but that didn't stop him from coming back for yet another "goodbye match."
Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff Taker has been established as a legend in the company. Brock hasn't. Brock getting the better of Taker adds to his mystique. There's no reason for Brock to "return the job". Taker doesn't need a win over him.
You're right. Taker doesn't need the win. But he's earned a win. No sense in bringing him back and have him lose all the time. But think a little longer down the road. What helps Brock more? A simple win over Taker? Or building a nice, longish feud with Taker, a back-and-forth feud, with Taker looking strong, and with Brock...in the end, after many hard-fought battles... finally dominating Taker in no uncertain terms, maybe a year from now, finally breaking Taker's undefeated Mania record or something like that! I think the later scenario would do far more for building Lesnar's character and status on the roster, and establishing him as a legend. It would be more meaningful for both men. Just bringing Taker back and telling him to lay down for Brock would be lame by comparison.
So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff1) Taker has been established as a legend in the company. Brock hasn't. Brock getting the better of Taker adds to his mystique. There's no reason for Brock to "return the job". Taker doesn't need a win over him.
2) What? Who makes up this "fair share of jobbing"? Who, besides Brock, has he put over during the past year or 2? Taker is one of the most protected guys on the roster. He got a title run (back when he was heel), he was booked super strong on SD over the last year, so I don't see how he's been jobbing & putting people over. If anything, they need to start using Taker like that. They've got to use his popularity to start giving guys the rub before he decides to call it a career. John Cena should be at the top of that list.
I'd take issue with a couple of points there
1. Brock may not be a legend, but he's pretty much at a stage where he could come out and job clean to Scotty 2 Hotty and the fans would still see him as a monster. He is and always will be viewed as a threat to anybody given not just the results he's had, but also his very appearance.
2. When Taker comes back with his new/old gimmick he'll almost certainly be one of the most over guys on the roster, if not the most. Jobbing him out immediately would be ridiculous. Taker really ain't that old either. I think he's only about 6 to 12 months older than Chris Benoit who many people are arguing a case for being the future of RAW. Why should this be the time to start using him as you suggest?
Assuming though that this is his last run (as if memory serves he always said he didnt want to go on a la Hogan), they need to give him a push (and a pretty decent one too) before they start pulling the reins in. Otherwise it just looks like the new deadman Taker can't win for shit.
Having him come back and win some matches before he puts over a couple of the guys viewed to be future stars would seem to be the most logical way to book him in my opinion.
Originally posted by dMr2. When Taker comes back with his new/old gimmick he'll almost certainly be one of the most over guys on the roster, if not the most. Jobbing him out immediately would be ridiculous. Taker really ain't that old either. I think he's only about 6 to 12 months older than Chris Benoit who many people are arguing a case for being the future of RAW.
I don't think anyone is saying Benoit is the future of Raw, and if they are, then they're just really stupid, and you can't listen to stupid people. Benoit is the now or never. Undertaker is the then. Benoit hasn't been at or around the top of the card for the last 13 years, either, which means something.
I think what I question is why put him with Brock right off anyway. It's not exactly a fresh idea, unless you consider Undertaker wearing purple gloves as something that makes it fresh.
Originally posted by ScottieKStonesI think what I question is why put him with Brock right off anyway. It's not exactly a fresh idea, unless you consider Undertaker wearing purple gloves as something that makes it fresh.
I agree. It doesn't have to be Taker right off the bat, and if it's true that Brock is taking some time off, then Taker will have a little time re-establish his presence on SD.
Just to expand a bit on my previous thoughts.... Who else on SD could help Brock get to the next level? Brock could continue to go over all the guys he's been going over for the past two years. He could have a nice program with Big Show, as long as the program was short. Brock could chew through the whole roster. The current feud with Heatless Holly can't do anything for him. Eventually, if Brock is going cement his status on SD as the top man, he'll have to go up against the Undertaker in meaningful way story-wise, and for it to be a good story, for Brock to go over Taker, it'll have to be a long standing feud. It'll have to be like climbing a mountain, and the audience will have to 'believe' (or suspend their disbelief) that the mountain might win. Unless Brock's character 'does the impossible', his role could stagnate. Angle, Rock, Austin, etc.... all these guys built their characters by 'coming back against-all-odds' for some stunning victories. It's a good story that will make Brock a legend, not a bunch of empty wins in the record books.
(edited by Stilton on 10.3.04 0012) So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
One question. Isn't Lesnar under contract? How is he going to get out of this seven year deal he signed? (Unless, my reading skills are on par with my arithmetic this morning, and I missed that completely.)
(edited by Whitebacon on 10.3.04 0949)
In the context of baseball, the use of drugs hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, the use of alcohol hurts only the player. In the context of baseball, womanizing hurts whom? Maybe the wife of the player? In the context of baseball, felonies are crimes against society, not against baseball. In the context of baseball, gambling is the only crime against baseball.
Gambling, in the context of baseball, is a capital offense and Rose has richly earned-- hell, he agreed to-- his death sentence. Let him hang.
Bob Kohm, co-owner of Rotojunkies.com (rotojunkies.com) , and a large market kind of guy.
Brock may have had an escape clause or buy-out clause in his contract. We don't know that he didn't. Shame if he is leaving. He's still very young, and probably emotional. Some time off to clear his head will be good for him. If he wants to pursue the NFL, well, good luck to him, but what if he doesn't make it? I'm sure there will always be a home for him in WWE, but despite other workers being pushed in the main events right now (Brock, you gotta share sometimes), his wrestling career has spectacular momentum, and he'd be losing that. It's a loss for the WWE and for the fans, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
"Brock Lesnar quit the WWE last night at the TV tapings in Atlantic City. Lesnar, 26, will face Bill Goldberg at Wrestlemania in what will be his final match unless he changes his mind in the next few days. We'll have more on this later today."
(edited by SchippeWreck on 10.3.04 1009)
"Self-esteem is for everybody, Self-esteem is for everyone, You can dream and be anybody, But, self-esteem is how you get it done."
What an ASSHOLE. He's been given EVERYTHING on a silver platter from day one. He was pushed and pushed and pushed and put over everyone and their mother. The fed have spent two years on this guy, they've put everything into him. And he can't even hang around long enough for them to get some return on their investment? Maybe for him to put over a couple more guys on the way out? I don't a flying FUCK if he's having problems with the travel schedule. He can put up with it for three more months so he can lay down and make some more stars. FUCK. WHAT A FUCKING ASSHOLE.
I hope they put Goldberg over him in three minutes at Mania, then sink all the money from Lesnar's dela into getting him back on board for another year or two.
ASSSSSSSHOLE.
"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"
I'll look at the silver lining on this cloud, since I was never a big freak about Brock, and always viewed him as another Goldberg (better worker than Goldberg, though). I don't think it's a good idea for Eddy to lose the title back to Brock, nor is it a good idea to run yet another Angle/Brock match. The WWE Title should stay away from Brock for a while, so him leaving is a non-factor for SMACKDOWN!'s main event scene.
WrestleMania XX will certainly be interesting, though. I don't think we have ever had an instance where two people were having their "Farewell Match" at the exact same time. Closest thing I can think of is Flair/Sting at the last Nitro.
Now that we have this in mind, I hope the match ends in a Double Stunner and Austin declaring himself the winner. I know a lot of people hate Austin and his non-wrestlingness, but I'm still a fan, he's still a top face, and it is WrestleMania.
But, down the line, you gotta figure Brock will be back someday. This NFL thing can't work out too well, but money-wise, it makes sense for Lesnar to sign a huge deal with some team and make more money that way.
Huh, well...if nothing else the news of the day adds a little mystery as to who will win the match: The guy who has been known to be leaving for some time now or the guy who just announced he is leaving.
I say the match has a no finish with Austin stunnering both men out cold.
This has to be one of the more bizarre things that has happened to WWE in quite some time. I still can't believe this is going to happen.
If Brock Lesnar ever does come back, how will the fans take to him? Of course, I suspect that only the IWC fans at this point- those who read sites like Meltzer's, here and others, know about this. What'll happen when this info reaches casual fans? How will this story be skewed? Too many questions for us fans, but certainly not as many as WWE will have to answer now.
Personally, what little amount of respect I had for Brock Lesnar as a wrestler is pretty much gone. But he has that choice I guess. As a person, well, I can't really blame him. It is his life. It is his decision to make, and wrestling for him apparently was just a career choice gone pear-shaped.
The lunatic wrestling fan in me wonders how long it'll take before he comes grovelling back to wrestling, though...
If there's any doubt, just go to this link for a confidence boost, brothas and sistas! Click Here (yourethemannowdog.com)
"Now that we have this in mind, I hope the match ends in a Double Stunner and Austin declaring himself the winner. I know a lot of people hate Austin and his non-wrestlingness, but I'm still a fan, he's still a top face, and it is WrestleMania."
I'd prefer a mega-face beatdown from both Austin AND 'Berg. And I hate both those guys! May as well get your money's worth from the selfish bastard.
"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"
"Now that we have this in mind, I hope the match ends in a Double Stunner and Austin declaring himself the winner. I know a lot of people hate Austin and his non-wrestlingness, but I'm still a fan, he's still a top face, and it is WrestleMania."
Though this whole situation sucks if its true, this would get me and my drunken buddies all going crazy during WMXX. It would definately be the thing to do if both guys are definately leaving.
It makes me wonder if anything from last night's Smackdown tapings will be cut out or if anything 'new' will be added.
Though I think Lesnar is an incredible performer, this may be a blessing is diguise for WWE. It seems that Brock is the kind of guy who management would have a hard time keeping control of later on. He doesn't have it all yet, but a big ego, unwillingness to job, and demand for greater creative control could have been in his future. We may never know now, but thats better than having it happen.
Originally posted by oldschoolheroThe fed have spent two years on this guy, they've put everything into him. And he can't even hang around long enough for them to get some return on their investment? Maybe for him to put over a couple more guys on the way out? I don't a flying FUCK if he's having problems with the travel schedule. He can put up with it for three more months so he can lay down and make some more stars.
Well, if the NFL thing is legit, he'd HAVE to leave now to be ready for the draft, spring training, etc.
At least some day maybe I'll understand why some day maybe you never can. Or something like that.
1) What are the odds Brock has already been in talks with a Football club and no one noticed?
2) What are the odds this is all just a huge work they're building up to give Brock a little time off (with the prossibility of some cross-promotion with the NFL?)
So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
"Well, if the NFL thing is legit, he'd HAVE to leave now to be ready for the draft, spring training, etc."
Aw boo hoo. Maybe he should've made his mind up earlier. If this is something he's planned, then it's a supremely dickish move towards a company that have made him who he is. Let's be honest, would he have the opportunity to walk into a pro-football career at this point in his life without the WWE exposure? If it's not, then he's a total retard for walking out of one high-contact sport that he knows and into another that he probably hasn't played regularly since high school.
Man, I didn't expect to be so pissed-off about this...
"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"
Originally posted by SKLOKAZOIDYou're right. It's debatable. He has improved since his debut, no doubt about that, and has really helped establish a lot of stars on SMACKDOWN!
Like, um, damn, I can't even think of anybody to use in a smart ass remark here...
OH YEAH, Zach Gowen. Spanky, too.
Phenominal athlete, for sure, but sorta lacking in the heart department. (See; Mick Foley, Benoit, Angle)
Somebody else put it very well; the true greats don't need wins for the fans to care about them. I'll miss Brock and his abilities, at least until 2006 or 2007.
Thread ahead: Bret's Final Say on WMXX Next thread: HUGE possible WMXX SPOILER!! Previous thread: Wrestlemania must put all of its focus on a handful of guys.
The thing I got hung up on was Kurt Angle saying that he's never seen a giraffe before, meaning, much to my great disappointment, he's never made his way to the Pittsburgh Zoo...
Thread rated: 4.94
#75 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.43
#77 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.05
#78 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
.gif)
