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5.10.15 2056
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - WWE Raw 9/21/15
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PowerPB13
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#1 Posted on 22.9.15 0745.00
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0745.49
Wait, I'm starting the thread? Wow.

Things I liked:

-Split-personality Kane was entertaining, especially the overly-happy smiling buddy-buddy corporate Kane.
-NEW DAY. 'Nuff said.
-Paige's heel turn. Glad it happened, thought she did a good promo.

Other stuff:

-Says something about me that I'm officially sick of Cena-Rollins.
-Cesaro being wasted(DIDN'T SAY BURIED).
-Ton of 50/50 booking.

(edited by PowerPB13 on 22.9.15 0745)
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El Nastio
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#2 Posted on 22.9.15 0819.38
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0821.04
Cesaro is a super hero. Literally, he has super human strength. I do not understand the treatment of a man they can promote as one who is not human due to his super human strength.

Over the top Kane was fantastic, I wish they run with that a few more weeks.

I liked Paige's promo, it was on the money, and delivered well.
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#3 Posted on 22.9.15 0827.07
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0829.01
Wyatt, Rusev, Owens and now Rollins have now all had the full John Cena experience where getting your win back just isn't enough the rest of the series needs to be swept from here on out.

Rusev wrestling to his theme via trombone was fantastic, but Rusev is just as fantastic as New Day when he wants to be.

I can live with this Kane thing for a PPV cycle, Kane is an underrated wrestling actor. Rollins is good playing off of him too.

Big Show winning isn't so bad. He really should win more just because of his size. It's the constant build up and break down of Big Show that is a problem.

Late Edit New Day spinning right wing presidential talking points and turning them into a way to gain heel heat is right up there with the trombone.




(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 22.9.15 1212)
Dr Unlikely
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#4 Posted on 22.9.15 0851.49
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0854.52
John Cena Sucks.

Cena main-eventing non-title matches over Undisputed Champ Punk was bad, but to actually come out and beat the World Champion clean on back-to-back nights is finding that extra gear in making sure everyone knows who to care about and who is furniture, and Seth Rollins is a really cool, sleek-looking Eames chair that somebody keeps using just to throw their jackets on when they come in the door.

Keep building your show at the expense of new, interesting talent to prop up the little-loved character of a giant, invincible, obnoxious eight year-old who can never lose and gets what he wants all the time and wonder why you can't pick up traction with a wider audience.

Big Show beating Cesaro to build-up Big Show/Lesnar for the MSG Network show instead of Cesaro beating Big Show to build up Cesaro/Lesnar for the MSG Network show is about as good of an example that they still don't get what they're doing wrong as you could hope to find, right? (I made sure to end my subscription, which would have renewed at midnight, right after this show. To send a message, you see. I don't know why, I know it's pointless, it just makes me happy to hit that cancel button so they know. Let me have this.)

Torn on New Kane. Will reserve judgment. Kane doing the Abyss/Joseph Park angle is a rib on Abyss constantly doing Kane angles, I assume. The rare kind of vindictive joke booking that I can live with. Especially because The Mysterious Glass Case used to hold Kane's mask returning as a plot point, and the outside chance that my booking idea from 2013-2014 that anyone who wears the Mask of Kane gains the power of The Kaneforce could be back in play. What if Luke Gallows is back as Fake Kane to celebrate the DVD and Blu-Ray release of The Gallows?

So I'm not all negative:
Rusev is great. New Day are double super ultra great. Kevin Owens being a fan of Bo Dallas is great. Team up Owens/Bo as K-BO. And just sort of embrace that New Day are basically faces and give us a New Day/Owens feud. Cement Kofi/Big E as the tag team and run a Woods/Owens IC feud with Bo trying to counteract New Day for an increasingly frustrated Kevin Owens.

Everything else does suck, though.
PowerPB13
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#5 Posted on 22.9.15 0855.00
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0855.55
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    John Cena Sucks.

    Cena main-eventing non-title matches over Undisputed Champ Punk was bad, but to actually come out and beat the World Champion clean on back-to-back nights is finding that extra gear in making sure everyone knows who to care about and who is furniture, and Seth Rollins is a really cool, sleek-looking Eames chair that somebody keeps using just to throw their jackets on when they come in the door.

    Keep building your show at the expense of new, interesting talent to prop up the little-loved character of a giant, invincible, obnoxious eight year-old who can never lose and gets what he wants all the time and wonder why you can't pick up traction with a wider audience.



I came to terms with the fact that I just hate little kids with cancer. I hope you can come to terms with it as well.

Bo Dallas is my guilty pleasure. He's such a total weenie and it's glorious.
Hokienautic
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#6 Posted on 22.9.15 0903.52
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0904.09
    Originally posted by El Nastio
    Over the top Kane was fantastic, I wish they run with that a few more weeks.


My favorite line was when Kane seemed surprised Rollins didn't know he was back: "Didn't you get the email??"

Stolen from last week's thread:

    Originally posted by Hokienautic
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
        Originally posted by MoeGates
        Can we talk about the "Master of the Feed Me More" for a minute? Someone needs to really take the mic away from him.


      Yes, I had forgotten about this. The fact that Ryback always calls himself 'The Big Guy' is weird and a little creepy, but I don't really want him to stop doing it either.

      Ryback is basically getting the F-U CM Punk push and he has done better with it than I thought he would, but he is such a freaking meathead. It was really nice that Kevin Owens decided not to totally destroy him on the mic.


    They tackled a touchy subject too, because, umm, The Secret really IS everything Kevin Owens said it was. Sorry to anyone here who has had their life changed by the book, but it's nonsense. It's the kind of thing Bo Dallas would be preaching.


Wonder if they'll tie it all together?

(edited by Hokienautic on 22.9.15 1005)
Stefonics
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#7 Posted on 22.9.15 0913.47
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0924.18
The WWE champion got pinned, clean, two nights in a row by the secondary champion. How many jobs did Savage do for Warrior during his (Savage's) first title run? I understand that it's Cena, I understand that the US Strap is useless on Rollins. But for fuck's sake, protect your WORLD CHAMPION and have him lose by countout. Or DQ. ANYTHING other than a clean loss.

Manic Kane is my favorite Kane.

Nice promo Paige. I still can't be bothered to care about you until you show me more than yelling and a decent kick. You used to have so much promise. I'm not sure if it's the the main roster ecosystem or if she got complacent, but she is being lapped by Charlotte, Becky, and Sasha. Hopefully this change lights her fire because I want to care about her and I know she can do it.

(edited by Stefonics on 22.9.15 1014)
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#8 Posted on 22.9.15 0956.42
Reposted on: 22.9.22 0959.01
Paige's Pipe Bomb was great. I loved the line about the Bellas. I still don't understand why Nikki is getting offense in regardless, hopefully we can now move on to Paige/Charlotte or Sasha/Charlotte.

Here is the thing about Rollins. I am not buying him. I am just not. It may have to do with the whole Sting debacle. Why he is not taking massive bumps, but Sting is. It makes no sense. I am also wondering if WWE is not buying him either. He is good in the ring, he is a smary heel and that is about it. He has zero drawing power. His storyline has helped bury the one guy in the company that could be the break out star in Ambrose. He has generated goodwill for saving Mania from being a trainwreck, but that was half a year a go.

His feuds are same same old and minus Sting bringing some excitement to his reign, he has been a dud. He had one good match at SummerSlam which also ended in a WTF manner and that has been it. He is the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE. Whether he knows this or not, I am not sure, but I think Vince does and that is why we get the booking we are booking. The booking of let him have it, because there are no good options due to us trying to get him over.

Another part of this is I am sick of the long title reign. Just sick of it. I don't need to see a guy take the title from Mania to SummerSlam or from Mania to Mania. It does nothing for anyone. It forces the title holder into situations where their health is at stake. It is also not like it was back in the day when a tag match can headline a PPV or there was no Raw and Smackdown either. I also don't want another run of the Lesnar type run which was total bullshit.

Kane...just come on. The rest is good. Yes, the rest of it is good minus of course Cena. The WWE has a bunch of cool heels and no cool faces minus Ambrose who is getting jobbed out. That is a problem, but for right now, we should enjoy it.
andy1278
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#9 Posted on 22.9.15 1009.33
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1009.46
Let us all celebrate the New Day-Rusev union, especially is somehow the mess with Dolph Ziggler is forgotten.

The Cesaro thing is weird. If he was Mark Henry sized, they would have skits of him picking up cars and such. Being a fairly normal sized guy with superhuman strength, we get nothing.

The Paige pipe bomb was fine, as long as they follow up with it. 50/50 chance that she apologizes in a backstage segment next week and nothing ever happened. I feel like Paige is in this weird spot where they have killed the uniqueness of her character. Now she's just the wannabe punk girl that does all the stuff the other Total Divas do. Guess that comes with being a Total Diva? As said, the others are totally lapping her.

Needs more Sasha, but I imagine we are waiting to get more of a dose of her when she is done with Bayley in a few weeks. Also, Sasha is heeling it up like a champ on Twitter regarding Bayley's little fan Izzy.

Glad Nattie is back, even if she is there to lose as usual.

WWE has this thing, especially lately, where they run a good match into the ground by doing it over and over and over within weeks. Sasha-Paige? Let's do it 20 times! Cena-Rollins? How about 50!

I like to think that Corporate Kane is that guy that forwards along lame e-mails that he thinks is funny, and then asks about them later. "Hey Hunter, did you see that thing I sent you ten minutes ago?"
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#10 Posted on 22.9.15 1042.18
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1049.05
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Here is the thing about Rollins. I am not buying him. I am just not. It may have to do with the whole Sting debacle. Why he is not taking massive bumps, but Sting is. It makes no sense. I am also wondering if WWE is not buying him either. He is good in the ring, he is a smary heel and that is about it. He has zero drawing power. His storyline has helped bury the one guy in the company that could be the break out star in Ambrose. He has generated goodwill for saving Mania from being a trainwreck, but that was half a year a go.

    His feuds are same same old and minus Sting bringing some excitement to his reign, he has been a dud. He had one good match at SummerSlam which also ended in a WTF manner and that has been it. He is the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE. Whether he knows this or not, I am not sure, but I think Vince does and that is why we get the booking we are booking. The booking of let him have it, because there are no good options due to us trying to get him over.

    Another part of this is I am sick of the long title reign. Just sick of it. I don't need to see a guy take the title from Mania to SummerSlam or from Mania to Mania. It does nothing for anyone. It forces the title holder into situations where their health is at stake. It is also not like it was back in the day when a tag match can headline a PPV or there was no Raw and Smackdown either. I also don't want another run of the Lesnar type run which was total bullshit.


I have to agree here, although I buy Rollins more than I ever bought Jarrett. I don't even care that Cena beat him clean for the third time last night. That was just so nonconsequential. Rollins' run is just so directionless. I don't understand what the payoff is supposed to be, because there's no one else on the roster I really care about to beat him.

I want Ambrose to beat Rollins, ideally, but I know that won't happen. Screw it. Cash it in already, Sheamus. If Cena is going to beat Rollins, why not just give him the belt along the way? I really don't care anymore, because Rollins' whole story is a babyface storyline for a heel that I'm supposed to want to see lose and it's all HHH-centric.

Long title reigns are fine with me as long as there's a direction. Savage could hold that belt for a year and drop it to Hogan over a slow build, HHH could hold it for a bit so he could drop it to Batista, even Lesnar's reign you know had to end at WrestleMania 31.

This just feels like Rollins has to hold the belt so that HHH can justify his personal project. If they want to do the Shield Triple Threat at Mania 32, Rollins doesn't have to come into that match with a year-long title run. We can take a break, especially as ratings are down.
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#11 Posted on 22.9.15 1113.19
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1113.19
I hate everything about the Rollins reign until he gets in the ring. Then he works his ass off, and I can begrudge him nothing. The top guy is a helluva worker, and I'm enjoying it.

The Lovely Mrs. Tracker fell in love with New Day within five seconds. It helps that she and Woods went to the same university (not at the same time). She hadn't seen Kofi in a while, and he won her over again as he always does, curse him.

Hokienautic
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#12 Posted on 22.9.15 1148.34
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1151.38
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I have to agree here, although I buy Rollins more than I ever bought Jarrett. I don't even care that Cena beat him clean for the third time last night. That was just so nonconsequential. Rollins' run is just so directionless. I don't understand what the payoff is supposed to be, because there's no one else on the roster I really care about to beat him.

    I want Ambrose to beat Rollins, ideally, but I know that won't happen. Screw it. Cash it in already, Sheamus. If Cena is going to beat Rollins, why not just give him the belt along the way? I really don't care anymore, because Rollins' whole story is a babyface storyline for a heel that I'm supposed to want to see lose and it's all HHH-centric.

    Long title reigns are fine with me as long as there's a direction. Savage could hold that belt for a year and drop it to Hogan over a slow build, HHH could hold it for a bit so he could drop it to Batista, even Lesnar's reign you know had to end at WrestleMania 31.

    This just feels like Rollins has to hold the belt so that HHH can justify his personal project. If they want to do the Shield Triple Threat at Mania 32, Rollins doesn't have to come into that match with a year-long title run. We can take a break, especially as ratings are down.


I thought the payoff was building toward HHH-Rollins -- a "you've gotten too big for your britches" kind of attitude from HHH versus "I don't need you, I'm awesome even without you" from Rollins. Though I might prefer the "I made you, I can destroy you" angle that keeps HHH heel.
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#13 Posted on 22.9.15 1332.25
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1336.46
I didn't see the show last night, but doesn't it seem like what should have happened is that Paige is like, "Congrats, Charlotte, Divas Revolution! Yay! Serena Williams. Btw, can I have a title shot?" and Charlotte's like, "Yeah, my dad is Ric Flair, wooo." And then Charlotte beats Paige, as Paige grows increasingly frustrated during the match and heels on her a little bit, but they make up in the end. And then Stephanie, because why not, is like, hey, the WWE Universe LOVES the Divas Revolution, so let's have a rematch at Hell in a Cell! And Paige goes apeshit on Charlotte with a chair. Isn't that more interesting than the angle I didn't see?

Also, while I'm at it, it seems they're not going to use my idea of Owens doing an Intercontinental title open challenge, using his superior heel mocking skills, only at some point Cena responds and they unify the titles? At WrestleMania? Or whenever. No?
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#14 Posted on 22.9.15 1726.17
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1729.01
The interaction outside between Summer Rae and Xavier Woods was probably the high point of the show. There was at least 2 times that Summer Rae had to cover up not laughing her ass off to things Woods was saying and doing. Discuss if this is a good thing or not for the product in general.

BTW, Woods is the most annoying person alive and it is great. If the WWE ever decides to sign Bobby Lashley, I would pair him with Woods and build up a Lashley/Lesnar program. The promos between Woods and Heyman would be worth it alone.
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#15 Posted on 22.9.15 1925.36
Reposted on: 22.9.22 1926.47
My favorite bit of Summer/Woods was Woods jumping up on the ring apron to blow his trumpet at Ziggler, then getting kicked back down and Summer catching the trombone as he fell.

Also, the Destroyer vs the Beast would be pretty damn awesome.
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#16 Posted on 23.9.15 1758.43
Reposted on: 23.9.22 1759.01
I missed the Summer interaction, but watching it back she is kinda great.

In case you didn't get enough, Cena-Rollins has been announced for the MSG Network show... but this time, in a cage! Also, Orton vs Sheamus rematch #5498508483. I don't understand how they could make Beast In The East seem cool and different and then turned this coming show into every Raw ever.
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#17 Posted on 24.9.15 1157.51
Reposted on: 24.9.22 1159.01
    Originally posted by andy1278
    I missed the Summer interaction, but watching it back she is kinda great.

    In case you didn't get enough, Cena-Rollins has been announced for the MSG Network show... but this time, in a cage! Also, Orton vs Sheamus rematch #5498508483. I don't understand how they could make Beast In The East seem cool and different and then turned this coming show into every Raw ever.


Well Beast in the East had a certain NXT title match that everyone was salivating over.
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#18 Posted on 24.9.15 1228.58
Reposted on: 24.9.22 1229.01
    Originally posted by Greymarch
      Originally posted by andy1278
      I missed the Summer interaction, but watching it back she is kinda great.

      In case you didn't get enough, Cena-Rollins has been announced for the MSG Network show... but this time, in a cage! Also, Orton vs Sheamus rematch #5498508483. I don't understand how they could make Beast In The East seem cool and different and then turned this coming show into every Raw ever.


    Well Beast in the East had a certain NXT title match that everyone was salivating over.


That was a big part of it, but Kofi-Brock was a unique matchup that had the will Kofi get murdered aspect to it. Big Show-Brock is the least exciting opponent they could have chosen. Anyone else would be more interesting. Heck give me Brock-D'Von if you have to. Mix and match just for fun.
andy1278
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#19 Posted on 24.9.15 1236.59
Reposted on: 24.9.22 1239.41
Exactly! It felt different. Orton-Sheamus, Dolph-Rusev, and Cena-Rollins are overdone, and now they are supposed to draw us into a special show. Try something different. Anything.
Brock-Kofi was fun because, while the outcome was never in doubt, it was something fresh. I would take Brock vs almost anybody over Big Show. Bo! Miz! Anybody who the crowd would love to see destroy because they run their mouth too much!
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#20 Posted on 24.9.15 1325.33
Reposted on: 24.9.22 1329.01
Only really caught it from Show/Cesaro on, but one minor suggestion. Let's rewind the tape and punch in a little something to Show's post-match promo. (italics = my addition)

Crowd: "SUPLEX CITY" (clap clap clapclapclap)
Big Show: "...my fat ass ain't going to Suplex City! You saw what just happened when the strongest guy in this company just tried to suplex me! Do you seriously think you're going to do any better, Brock?"

Two sentences that help both people in the match. Show puts Cesaro over for something good, reinforcing the "CESARO STRONG MAN" angle that commentators were pushing during the match and giving the fans a reason to care about him. the end of the match was Cesaro suplexing Show into the ring for another Feat of Strength (that took too much out of Cesaro for him to capitalize, giving Show enough time to recover), why not build off of that? And meanwhile, Show gets to boast about being too big to toss around like a rag doll, helping to build some mystique into the Lesnar/Show match. Give the fans a reason to care about someone and... they'll care. Wrestling's on an upswing in terms of popularity, why not ride that wave to build more stars and bank more money for everyone? Instead, Cesaro loses a match that he was in because he was some guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time when Show was pissed at Miz. What does that accomplish for Cesaro? Show was going to come out strong no matter what, you might as well help both guys instead of just one.
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