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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Raw 9/14/15: A Historically Bad Night
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lotjx
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#1 Posted on 15.9.15 0729.17
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0734.24
Well, we could talk about HHH and Steph being these new pseudo faces and their wicked dance moves or we could talk about the McMahon family being vindictive spoiled children and we are the parents who refuse to walk away when they throw a tantrum like they did last night. I am going with option B. Just why? Why bring Flair in? Why even bother to even have the match if this was your ending? Why do Divas Revolution when you have had multiple chances to put the belt on Charlotte? Why do you care about breaking AJ's record? Why do you even give a shit about Total Diva when it will be canceled in two years anyway? Just fucking why?!!

I was going to get Night of Champions for Sting. Now, just forget it. They are not going to put the belt on Sting. Someone that fans actually care about. Instead, it will go to HHH. HHH, who had better step the fuck away from New Day before he containment them too with his suck. I will say this about Sting at least he showed and wrestled (twice) on Raw unlike some former MMA guys.
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lotjx
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#2 Posted on 15.9.15 0729.17
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0734.28
(deleted by lotjx on 15.9.15 0729)
dMp
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#3 Posted on 15.9.15 0752.06
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0753.18
Relax, it's just a title. Why do YOU care about breaking AJ's record?

Let me run down the reasons to have the match and to have Nikki win.
For 200-ish days of her title run, nobody cares about Nikki Bella and her title run. Nobody cared about her getting beaten
So...you let her hold on to the title as long as possible, you let her glorify herself and claim she's the best ever.
You know, like CM Punk did when he had his run. And people start booing.
Then you find some challengers and you make sure it's going to be a ppv match. But wait, the record date is before the ppv. So they created some tension that maybe--just maybe she doesn't get to set the record after all. That's when you go all heel-cheating-shenanigans and make sure you walk out champ, leaving the face even more determined and the crowd ready to cheer for the face's victory.
And maybe that'll be at the ppv.
But to be honest I'd hold off, have Nikki cheat her way past all of the Divas. Have the "good wrestler" divas duke it out and then, when the average fan cheers as loudly for Charlotte, Sasha and such as for the guys, then you destroy the Bella empire.
Boom. Over, done. Revolution complete.

I do agree with HHH & Steph dancing with New Day. That reeks of them wanting to be cool too for a night.



(edited by dMp on 15.9.15 1459)
lotjx
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#4 Posted on 15.9.15 0822.45
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0824.15
    Originally posted by dMp
    Relax, it's just a title. Why do YOU care about breaking AJ's record?

    Let me run down the reasons to have the match and to have Nikki win.
    For 200-ish days of her title run, nobody cares about Nikki Bella and her title run. Nobody cared about her getting beaten
    So...you let her hold on to the title as long as possible, you let her glorify herself and claim she's the best ever.
    You know, like CM Punk did when he had his run. And people start booing.
    Then you find some challengers and you make sure it's going to be a ppv match. But wait, the record date is before the ppv. So they created some tension that maybe--just maybe she doesn't get to set the record after all. That's when you go all heel-cheating-shenanigans and make sure you walk out champ, leaving the face even more determined and the crowd ready to cheer for the face's victory.
    And maybe that'll be at the ppv.
    But to be honest I'd hold off, have Nikki cheat her way past all of the Divas. Have the "good wrestler" divas duke it out and then, when the average fan cheers as loudly for Charlotte, Sasha and such as for the guys, then you destroy the Bella empire.
    Boom. Over, done. Revolution complete.

    I do agree with HHH & Steph dancing with New Day. That reeks of them wanting to be cool too for a night.



    (edited by dMp on 15.9.15 1459)


So, do the Justin Credible push, because that worked out so well for ECW. I get what you are saying, but it does matter, because fans for the first time in ages where invested in a women's match. A women's match on Raw that people wanted to be the main event. What should have been a superstar making moment for Charlotte turned out to be a shill job for their network. A network, I would gather most of us have and pay nothing for most of the time. Remember when Foley won the title on Raw and it made everyone involved look like a million bucks. This was the reverse. Everyone looked like a fucking idiot in this match including the dumb ass boss' daughter.
Spiraling_Shape
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#5 Posted on 15.9.15 0831.10
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0832.24
The whole problem with Nikki's story is that they're doing two things simultaneously that cancel each other out. The story is supposedly the heel champ holding onto the belt forever (a la Punk, as was said), gloating about it and being all heelish about it all.

However, at the same time Nikki has barely acted like a heel or really been entirely presented as one. That video package last night wasn't cocky and arrogant, it was triumphant and aspirational. The Bellas have constantly been presented as tweeners for months and that really muddled the issue.

If this was a reign that Nikki had been constantly bragging about and lording over everyone cruelly, then you'd want to see Charlotte stop her in her tracks and take her down a peg. The good guys win and the bad guys lose, to quote the Nick TMNT cartoon theme.

But because they only halfway committed to that story, you get last night's ending to get to the PPV match. The stakes aren't as high as they should have or could have been.

(Meanwhile Sasha hasn't been pinned or submitted yet since moving up to the main roster..shh..that's a story they can capitalize on soon, if they realize it's actually there.)

(edited by Spiraling_Shape on 15.9.15 0631)
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#6 Posted on 15.9.15 0840.02
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0840.06
The Bellas are heels, but they're heels who think they're faces. They're heels who talk about being inspirational and role models, but then cheat and do twin magic and generally act like bullies whenever anyone actually threatens their position. It's really not that complicated.
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#7 Posted on 15.9.15 0848.10
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0851.16
    Originally posted by GodEatGod
    The Bellas are heels, but they're heels who think they're faces. They're heels who talk about being inspirational and role models, but then cheat and do twin magic and generally act like bullies whenever anyone actually threatens their position. It's really not that complicated.


But I don't think the company/creative/the Bellas themselves make them come off as delusional, lying heels, like you're describing them. They aren't "paragon of virtue" Chris Jericho here, and even before the "Diva Revolution" callups, they were booked as heels or faces on a month-to-month basis, depending on who the bookers wanted to challenge them that month (i.e. when Naomi turned).
Hokienautic
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#8 Posted on 15.9.15 0918.31
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0921.00
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I was going to get Night of Champions for Sting. Now, just forget it. They are not going to put the belt on Sting. Someone that fans actually care about. Instead, it will go to HHH. HHH, who had better step the fuck away from New Day before he containment them too with his suck. I will say this about Sting at least he showed and wrestled (twice) on Raw unlike some former MMA guys.


I'm convinced that if it appeared Sting was going to be winning the belt on Sunday, you'd be here bitching about how some old, out-of-shape wrestler who "wrestled" two matches by throwing five punches and making three splashes and a deathdrop was going to take the title when no one, not a single fan, cared.

On another note, wouldn't it make for a great tying together of so many layers of wrestling if the long-awaited Cena heel turn came by him turning on Sting?
lotjx
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#9 Posted on 15.9.15 0938.24
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0950.18
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I was going to get Night of Champions for Sting. Now, just forget it. They are not going to put the belt on Sting. Someone that fans actually care about. Instead, it will go to HHH. HHH, who had better step the fuck away from New Day before he containment them too with his suck. I will say this about Sting at least he showed and wrestled (twice) on Raw unlike some former MMA guys.


    I'm convinced that if it appeared Sting was going to be winning the belt on Sunday, you'd be here bitching about how some old, out-of-shape wrestler who "wrestled" two matches by throwing five punches and making three splashes and a deathdrop was going to take the title when no one, not a single fan, cared.

    On another note, wouldn't it make for a great tying together of so many layers of wrestling if the long-awaited Cena heel turn came by him turning on Sting?


Actually, I believe I have been very vocal on Sting winning. Cena turning on Sting after his weird tweet today would be awesome. So, awesome it would change everything in wrestling and get people invested in the product. So of course, it won't happen. Sting turning on Cena would cause the universe to implode.
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#10 Posted on 15.9.15 0948.49
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0952.35
You know what? I really like HHH now because I like the New Day and I associate HHH with things I like for some reason.

I have zero problems with the Nikki/Charlotte match on Raw. Nikki breaking AJ's streak was a foregone conclusion, and has been for a few months now, that the best thing to do with this match was to build heat and have Charlotte go over at NOC. Of course, Charlotte could still lose (which I don't mind because I want Sasha Banks to win it), but for the purposes of Raw, it was all about setting up NOC. This one actually made sense.

If Sting is wrestling at the PPV this Sunday, why does he wrestle on Raw in a T-shirt? He even has a singlet that hides his upper body somewhat. That's the only real nitpick. He looked fine tonight and I think Rollins will help him through a main event. He should just stop doing the Scorpion Deathlock, though. Especially since he actually has a second finisher that people pop for.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 15.9.15 0749)
Matt Tracker
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#11 Posted on 15.9.15 0959.05
Reposted on: 15.9.22 0959.54
Seeing Sting and Big Show in the ring again reminded me how long Big Show has been going, and it remains astounding for such a large man.

I woulda sworn the PPV was last weekend, and this week feels like a wheezing stagger to the finish line.
BigDaddyLoco
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#12 Posted on 15.9.15 1046.11
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1049.45
Sting is wrestling in a freaking t-shirt. They should have found something else for him to cover up with if it is a problem because a t-shirt looks so half assed and lazy on him. How about letting him at least enter with a trench coat and bat? He doesn't look mysterious, brooding or much like a vigilante, but he does look like a dad that threw together a Sting Halloween costume.

MoeGates
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#13 Posted on 15.9.15 1107.18
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1108.28
Can we talk about the "Master of the Feed Me More" for a minute? Someone needs to really take the mic away from him.
Dr Unlikely
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#14 Posted on 15.9.15 1115.11
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1119.30
PREVIOUSLY ON MONDAY NIGHT RAW
Powerful Business Woman Stephanie McMahon and HHH are simultaneously heels and faces and what do you like? What do you want them to be? What are your hopes? What are your dreams? Stephanie and HHH will be that for you, if you love them. Do you love them? They love you. Please, love them. HHH is The NXT Man. Stephanie personally knows the women you love who do the wrestling thing. Cheer and boo them at the same time. Make a new sound for them, invent a new human sound. For them. Just for them. Do it all for them.

AND NOW, ON AN ALL NEW SEASON OF MONDAY NIGHT RAW
Powerful Business Woman Stephanie McMahon and The NXT Man HHH are out to dance with The New Day. We all love The New Day. Stephanie and HHH love The New Day. Therefore, we all love Stephanie and HHH. This is true now. It is the natural order. They go together. We love them, we love all five members of the New Day. They are fun and they are our friends and the things that are positive are things we should associate with them. Life is good and easy this way.

Loved the 60 to 0 crowd reaction on "Tonight, STING WRESTLES!" [Crowd goes nuts] "...the Big Show! I didn't finish that sentence. Tonight, Sting wrestles The Big Show." [Crowd dies] HHH getting a Reverse Doctor From Arrested Development gimmick would be cool. 2.4 last week. 2.2 this week, maybe? Sting wrestlin' The Big Show.

Worst-case and therefore highly-likely scenario for the Nikki/Charlotte finish: Nikki learns from Cena who learned from HHH who learned from Nash/Michaels so Charlotte wins the belt by DQ, instantly neutering her title victory. That would be the worst way to do it and they specifically created stipulations that allow for that finish.

Other booking possibilities now introduced: Cena, to look strong for his US title match, had to cleanly beat the guy likely to cash in and win the World title, meaning Cena can win the US title and have a claim on being the #1 contender for the World Title.

I don't really have much else to say about this episode, I'm mostly posting to remind everybody that from this Raw forward, we are officially in Season 24 of Monday Night Raw. Please adjust your thread titles and episode counts accordingly.
CruelAngel777
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#15 Posted on 15.9.15 1118.42
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1129.01
we are arguing more about Nikki Bella's title reign than anything else that happened on the show. If they wanted to get attention on The Diva's title and get some sort of controversial reaction or even some buzz for the Diva's Revolution with the Bella's playing dictator...

Mission Accomplished.
JimBob Skeeter
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#16 Posted on 15.9.15 1142.48
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1143.32
I just loved that they let BOTH diva's matches focus on the heel working on the face's arm injury. BECAUSE THEY ARE SO VERSATILE.
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#17 Posted on 15.9.15 1212.54
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1213.54
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Can we talk about the "Master of the Feed Me More" for a minute? Someone needs to really take the mic away from him.


Yes, I had forgotten about this. The fact that Ryback always calls himself 'The Big Guy' is weird and a little creepy, but I don't really want him to stop doing it either.

Ryback is basically getting the F-U CM Punk push and he has done better with it than I thought he would, but he is such a freaking meathead. It was really nice that Kevin Owens decided not to totally destroy him on the mic.


    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    PREVIOUSLY ON MONDAY NIGHT RAW
    Powerful Business Woman Stephanie McMahon and HHH are simultaneously heels and faces and what do you like? What do you want them to be? What are your hopes? What are your dreams? Stephanie and HHH will be that for you, if you love them. Do you love them? They love you. Please, love them. HHH is The NXT Man. Stephanie personally knows the women you love who do the wrestling thing. Cheer and boo them at the same time. Make a new sound for them, invent a new human sound. For them. Just for them. Do it all for them.

    AND NOW, ON AN ALL NEW SEASON OF MONDAY NIGHT RAW
    Powerful Business Woman Stephanie McMahon and The NXT Man HHH are out to dance with The New Day. We all love The New Day. Stephanie and HHH love The New Day. Therefore, we all love Stephanie and HHH. This is true now. It is the natural order. They go together. We love them, we love all five members of the New Day. They are fun and they are our friends and the things that are positive are things we should associate with them. Life is good and easy this way.


This is really really good and you nailed everything that I've been thinking in two paragraphs, if only I was that articulate. Vince gets a lot of the blame for the way things are now, but these two constantly leaching off of and burying the roster is killing every good feeling a person gets about the product and it isn't something I ever see changing.




(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 15.9.15 1323)
Hokienautic
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#18 Posted on 15.9.15 1307.00
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1317.52
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by MoeGates
      Can we talk about the "Master of the Feed Me More" for a minute? Someone needs to really take the mic away from him.


    Yes, I had forgotten about this. The fact that Ryback always calls himself 'The Big Guy' is weird and a little creepy, but I don't really want him to stop doing it either.

    Ryback is basically getting the F-U CM Punk push and he has done better with it than I thought he would, but he is such a freaking meathead. It was really nice that Kevin Owens decided not to totally destroy him on the mic.


They tackled a touchy subject too, because, umm, The Secret really IS everything Kevin Owens said it was. Sorry to anyone here who has had their life changed by the book, but it's nonsense. It's the kind of thing Bo Dallas would be preaching.
XinJeisan
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#19 Posted on 15.9.15 1645.56
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1646.48
    Originally posted by GodEatGod
    The Bellas are heels, but they're heels who think they're faces. They're heels who talk about being inspirational and role models, but then cheat and do twin magic and generally act like bullies whenever anyone actually threatens their position. It's really not that complicated.


I want to say that sounds like John Cena, but maybe just the bullying part relates to him.
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#20 Posted on 15.9.15 1724.11
Reposted on: 15.9.22 1728.53
I got tempted in by the antics of New Day, so I decided to watch the full episode of RAW this week. Up until StepHHH showed up to start things off by glorifying themselves yet again and trying to leech off of ND's awesomeness. Sigh... thanks for reminding me why I stopped watching, guys. We really couldn't have just started the show with a cool title defense, and skipped the owners' two-person circle-jerk?

There was some decent wrestling, especially in the aforementioned tag title bout, though I felt pretty gypped at the end of the Divas match. Pinning the wrong Bella for the lose. Presumably it's to set up Charlotte actually winning at NoC, but Gods I'm tired of the Bellas. Give the belt to Sasha or Charlotte (or have them trade) and let them have as much time as Charlotte/Nikki did tonight, and people will actually give a shit about the Divas.
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