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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Russo: Vince forgot how to make stars
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Kevintripod
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#1 Posted on 20.5.15 1910.37
Reposted on: 20.5.22 1920.10

Vince Russo says Kevin Owens is proof Vince McMahon forgot how to make stars

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/5/20/8630709/vince-russo-kevin-owens-proof-vince-mcmahon-forgot-how-to-make-wwe-stars


Vince Russo:

When Sami Zayn first came out to the WWE Universe on a national stage . . . there was no IMPACT—the guy was presented as just "another wrestler". I don't care what anybody says, in a year nobody will remember that debut. Prior to that that was the Ascension—that was so laughable you "almost" have to think it was intentional. That was followed with Adrian Neville . . . WOW . . . that guy can really get height off the top. You forgot it by the next week. Then of course, this week there was Kevin Owens. A guy who looked like he just came from Gleason's Gym, where he was training to be a "rassler". Owens didn't look like a star, he didn't smell like a star, as a matter of fact he looked like a guy that could have possibly jumped the guardrail. Which reminds me—I STILL REMEMBER Hillbilly Jim when he was "presented" as "somebody" the first time we saw him on WWE TV. And, Owens dropping Cena? That did nothing but make the 115th time World Champ look bad.

Save your hate mail. This isn't a Kevin Owens thing, just like it wasn't a Sami Zayn thing, just like it wasn't a Adrian Neville thing, just like it wasn't an Ascension thing. Those guys are strictly employees who get paid to do what the boss says to go out and do—that boss is Vince McMahon. Somewhere along the line, shortly after the Attitude Era (what a coincidence), Vince McMahon forgot how to make stars. He forgot how to create them, how to manufacture them, and how to get them over. When you think about it, who has gotten over to SUPER stardom in the last fifteen years? I'm talking household names? In my opinion that list is quite small, as a matter of fact I'd put two people on it—-Kurt Angle and John Cena. OK, I'll even allow you to put the beloved Daniel Bryan on there if you wish—but his success had NOTHING to do with creative, other than being given the platform to perform.

All these guys, Owens, Zayn and Neville have amazing natural ability in their own right. They all can freakin' go—just like Daniel Bryan can go—but when it comes to making that Picasso complete . . . that's where they need the help of WWE Creative and Vince McMahon. Help that they're not getting.



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thecubsfan
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#2 Posted on 20.5.15 2108.04
Reposted on: 20.5.22 2109.19
You can paste a block of Vince Russo text but you can't expect me to read it.
BigDaddyLoco
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#3 Posted on 20.5.15 2128.12
Reposted on: 20.5.22 2129.01
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    You can paste a block of Vince Russo text but you can't expect me to read it.


I'm sure there is a section in there about how great it is to book something stupid on a pole matches.
Matt Tracker
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#4 Posted on 21.5.15 1044.08
Reposted on: 21.5.22 1045.48

    Which reminds me—I STILL REMEMBER Hillbilly Jim when he was "presented" as "somebody" the first time we saw him on WWE TV.


I remember Jim sitting in the stands for weeks if not months on TNT and All-American -- in his hat and overalls no less --before working with Hogan. You pair anyone with Hogan in the mid-'80s, and they were somebody.

Zayn had even more prominence before his debut against Cena than Cena did when he debuted against Kurt Angle. Cena got the Undertaker rub immediately after losing. Zayn was introduced in Montreal by Bret Hart. Seems kinda even.
graves9
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#5 Posted on 21.5.15 1746.37
Reposted on: 21.5.22 1751.50
Who is the last guy Russo made into a big star? HHH back in 1999? Even then it didn't take and he didn't become a top guy until Russo left. Styles is a bigger star after leaving TNA than he ever was in TNA. Russo fubar'd Joe and others careers with his shit ass booking. Vince McMahon isn't as good at making stars as he used to be, but he's far ahead of Russo.
KJames199
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#6 Posted on 22.5.15 0138.21
Reposted on: 22.5.22 0142.08
    Originally posted by graves9
    Who is the last guy Russo made into a big star?
I'm still waiting on the first.
supersalvadoran
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#7 Posted on 22.5.15 0140.25
Reposted on: 22.5.22 0142.34
You know how Peter Griffin always goes "shut up Meg"? That is exactly how I feel about Russo.
It's False
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#8 Posted on 22.5.15 1103.40
Reposted on: 22.5.22 1108.30
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    When Sami Zayn first came out to the WWE Universe on a national stage . . . there was no IMPACT—the guy was presented as just "another wrestler". I don't care what anybody says, in a year nobody will remember that debut.



I don't recall John Cena's debut blowing anybody out of the water either and I think he turned out alright, wouldn't you?

(edited by It's False on 22.5.15 0903)
Dionysus
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#9 Posted on 22.5.15 2006.00
Reposted on: 22.5.22 2026.54
Cena's debut came across very well at the time. It fit in perfectly to the Taker/Angle feud, and was a key storypoint in Evil Biker Taker turning face.

I remember being pissed off a couple of months later when they started burying Cena.

    Originally posted by graves9
    Who is the last guy Russo made into a big star?


It is hard to really compare McMahon to Russo, since Russo hasn't had full control over a company in the past decade.

That said, Russo certainly seemed to do good in establishing Ethan Carter, III.
dMp
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#10 Posted on 23.5.15 0112.32
Reposted on: 23.5.22 0114.49
It's total bullshit to say Zayn, Owens and others didn't come across as big deals or will never be.

Neville has been doing rather well, the crowd likes him (how can they not with his moves) and they are pushing him and allowing him to shine in his matches.
He's presented as a comic book character of shorts with the meteorite crashing into a planet entrance and him emerging from the smoke.

Zayn's debut..obviously it's his home town and they were chanting his name before he even came out. How's that not a good debut? The tv audience could see that the guy was popular and he put up a great effort. I'm not worried there.
Just being himself is much better for him on this large stage than if he was El Generico. I can hear it now. Maggle, he isn't even a real mexican!"

Owens walked out, and yes he looks like shit. But that's who he is. A no-nonsense ass kicker.
But he walked out and he killed the unbeatable Cena.
It did not make Cena look bad at all, especially since half the crowd loves to see Cena getting killed.

What did he want? Owens to be a wrestling garbage man? Call him the Canadian Avenger or something like that?

Obviously none of these guys are stars yet and it depends to be seen how any one works out. But guys like Orton and Batista were definitely star creations from after the Russo/Attitude era. They made Benoit from being 'that really good wrestler' into someone people wanted to cheer for. Eddie, for all his awesomeness, wouldn't have made it if he hadn't been given the Latina Heat thing.

Of course, for every one they do right, there's one they screw up. But to say Vince / WWE hasn't been able to create any stars is ridiculous.
Kevintripod
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#11 Posted on 23.5.15 0320.05
Reposted on: 23.5.22 0322.54
    Originally posted by dMp
    But he walked out and he killed the unbeatable Cena.



Well, more like he "cheap-shotted" the unbeatable Cena.
Stefonics
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#12 Posted on 23.5.15 0347.40
Reposted on: 23.5.22 0354.37
I agree with everything you said, but this jumped at me.
    Originally posted by dMp
    Owens walked out, and yes he looks like shit. But that's who he is. A no-nonsense ass kicker.

    What did he want? Owens to be a wrestling garbage man? Call him the Canadian Avenger or something like that?
If the "he" is Russo, given Owens' look and Russo's aesthetic, Owens would be introduced as "The Hedgehog", Ron Jeremy's long-lost son who was conceived during the shooting of Once Upon a Secretary.

What is most telling, to me, about anything having to do with NXT/WWE creative relations is that Neville and Balor came out and said they only met Vince for about 30 seconds after working for him for months (years in Neville's case).

If the dirt is to be believed, HHH won the battle to keep Joe's name and not turn him into the much more catchy "Joey Samoey", but he lost the same battle for KENTA. And now it comes out that HHH/Steph want to keep pushing solid women's wrestling instead of Bella shit, but Vince still doesn't see that as viable.

So either HHH has planted well-placed rumors to paint Vince as a completely out-of-touch fuddy-duddy, or he really is an out-of-touch fuddy-duddy. Russo and HHH are making the same argument in different ways. One is an idiot who got lucky 18 years ago while the other is smart, calculating, and has a legitimate grasp on how to make changes to give the audience more of what they want. I don't mean this to be a love letter to HHH, but his work with NXT speaks for itself.
GodEatGod
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#13 Posted on 24.5.15 1045.19
Reposted on: 24.5.22 1045.50
Asking Vince Russo about booking is like asking Dick Cheney about Middle East policy. He's certainly going to be opinionated, but, given his track record, why would you give even the slightest fuck what he has to say?
HMD
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#14 Posted on 29.5.15 1745.18
Reposted on: 29.5.22 1748.11
"Somewhere along the line, shortly after the Attitude Era (what a coincidence), Vince McMahon forgot how to make stars."

Does this sentence mean he thinks their inability to make new stars is down to him leaving? Is he actually that lacking in self-awareness? In fairness, the Wyatts and Shield people are certainly stars. Stamford's rookie class of '14 was one giant failure; this year seems far more promising. As for post Attitude years, Batista was a huge star in his hey, and the focal point of one of the more successful Manias. Orton was and is a big star, much to my chagrin. I think Brock was just getting there as a major player when he left and is his own league now. Jeff Hardy was super over before he left to take a tire iron to his own life. CM Punk was a stong #2 on the depth chart, though he got there in spite of Vince as opposed to because of him, so he probably doesn't count. Ditto for Bryan. I wouldn't call any of these folks household names, but I don't believe they are any less known than say Bret, Shawn, Diesel, Razor etc were in their WWF primes.
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