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The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Why-att?
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steven87gill
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#1 Posted on 8.4.15 1249.02
Reposted on: 8.4.22 1250.20
I'm fully aware that's an awful pun in the thread title, but no mind...

I didn't mind Taker's return, or his no shows since he's at a BOSS level of legend-hood now & after a career of paying his dues, has damn sure earned the right to pick & choose when & where he shows up.

What I wasn't cool with was that that they overbooked the shit out of Wyatt in the lead up, burying Ambrose, taking out all those guys in the Rumble, going over Bryan & Ziggler with considerable no-selling all round, lots of promo time, et cetera, et cetera... only for him to lose.

They basically had Wyatt plough through a bunch of other guys & damage their momentum for the sake of a piss poor match & feud he was never going to win anyway. Just utterly moronic on every level.

There's a sad irony in this. Wyatt goes on a Reigns-like run of ruining others people's credibility to build up his own & then he lost his own credibility by losing.

I was going to post this in the Mania thread, but I feel like this needs a thread of it's own, quite frankly.



(edited by steven87gill on 8.4.15 1643)
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SKLOKAZOID
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#2 Posted on 8.4.15 1410.43
Reposted on: 8.4.22 1412.41
There's several reasons why Taker went over. Mainly:

- To keep Brock's Streak Rub in tact. If two people have beaten the Undertaker at WrestleMania, it lessens the value of beating him and it makes it look more like Brock got Taker when he wasn't at his best. As it stands, only one man has beaten the Undertaker, and that man still hasn't been pinned.

- For Taker to lose last year, sit out that entire time, and return only to lose would have been pretty underwhelming. The story was Taker's return to form and making him strong for WrestleMania next year.

But yeah, it really did come at the expense of the main roster and it's really WWE shooting itself in the foot, because they're never going to have that "Next Rock" because they're not allowing the newer personalities to flourish.

I still don't understand what they did and are still doing to Dean Ambrose.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 8.4.15 1211)
Big Bad
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#3 Posted on 8.4.15 1647.49
Reposted on: 8.4.22 1647.49
Crazy alternate booking idea....

Bray makes those challenges week after week to the Undertaker but he never responds. Bray laughs it off, figuring the Taker is gone for good, and instead takes a spot in the Andre battle royale (which is on the main card in this scenario) since it "offers the most souls ripe for the picking" or whatever in Wyattspeak.

Come WM31, they slot the battle royale right after the Rock/Ronda/Authority segment. Bray is the last man to get into the ring, complete with the creepy scarecrow entrance and everything. Just when you think the field is complete....GONG. Undertaker arrives in all pomp and circumstance, and he goes after Wyatt. They essentially have a mini-match outside the ring parallel to the battle royale, with one of the other of them entering the ring at certain points to toss fools out. Eventually it gets down to Bray, Big Show, Kane, Rowan and Undertaker, with Rowan turning to rejoin his former master. However you also get a conflicted Kane eventually standing with his 'brother' for a mini Brothers of Destruction reunion against Show, Bray, Rowan. Kane tosses Rowan, Show tosses Kane, then Taker tosses Show in the most impressive fashion possible.

From there, you can really go either way. Either Bray wins to give Undertaker a 'loss' (though battle royal eliminations aren't really considered solid defeats) in a way that still has Taker look awesome. Or, using that same logic, you can still have Taker win, since a battle royal loss doesn't hurt Bray as much.

In fact, just to wrap the whole scenario up nicely, WWE could've only booked 21 men to be in the battle royal in the first place. Then Taker is in as the last entry, making the field "21-1"
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#4 Posted on 9.4.15 0135.21
Reposted on: 9.4.22 0138.14
It all goes back to the idea that the most logical person to end Undertaker's streak was Bray Wyatt. In him, they have (had?) a character that could easily traverse the same character areas as Undertaker, is a solid worker, good on the mic, and portrayed by someone who is young, hungry, and talented. He was going places and hitting all of the right notes, until he ran into the push-killing John Cena. I'm not as anti-Cena as some, but I will never understand the booking of that feud and those decisions hurt the credibility of the Wyatt character more than anything. He was literally buried. Now I feel like we're not far away from JBL saying "he's just a rambling fat idiot who needs to shut up and faight, Maggle" and that's a fucking shame.
dMp
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#5 Posted on 9.4.15 0308.11
Reposted on: 9.4.22 0309.54
Skolazoid already explained why Taker 'had to go over'.
We can disagree but that's how it works.

Wyatt however, is not a lost case as some already claim.
His character, which is basically just as silly as Undertaker's gimmick always was, is pretty much fire-proof.
One promo, one good/important match and people will believe in him.
He might not get the heat or push they got last year or something but that doesn't mean it can't be done again.
Especially because it'[s a gimmick that people like to believe in.

We dismiss the power of indoctrination of the WWE universe.
Two weeks of "Look at him! He just did THAT" and he's got the whole world in his hands again.

The same goes for Ambrose btw.

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#6 Posted on 9.4.15 0631.03
Reposted on: 9.4.22 0635.35
    Originally posted by dMp
    Skolazoid already explained why Taker 'had to go over'.
    We can disagree but that's how it works.

    Wyatt however, is not a lost case as some already claim.
    His character, which is basically just as silly as Undertaker's gimmick always was, is pretty much fire-proof.
    One promo, one good/important match and people will believe in him.
    He might not get the heat or push they got last year or something but that doesn't mean it can't be done again.
    Especially because it'[s a gimmick that people like to believe in.

    We dismiss the power of indoctrination of the WWE universe.
    Two weeks of "Look at him! He just did THAT" and he's got the whole world in his hands again.

    The same goes for Ambrose btw.

From his 1990 debut until his first hiatus following the 1994 Rumble, Undertaker constantly did "Look at him! He just did THAT" things and was always the strongest booked guy in the company. Bulletproof doesn't begin to describe that initial run, and his performance during that period set fan expectations for the rest of his career. He was never buried by Hogan, literally or figuratively, and it took 10 guys to beat him down and make him stay down to lose the casket match to Yokozuna, who was booked equally strong leading up to the match. There is no comparison between how Wyatt and Taker were booked when their characters started. The fans want to believe in him, as evidenced by the sing-alongs, but unless he starts winning matches that matter against top-level guys, he's never going to be much more than a talkative Papa Shango.

I don't disagree that Taker 'had to go over', I disagree with the choice of Lesnar being the guy to end the streak. Had Wyatt wrestled UT at 30 instead of 31, and gone over, it would be a different and more interesting WWE landscape.

I don't like thinking about ways to save the character of Dean Ambrose because I then have to think about all of the ways they've fucked up the character of Dean Ambrose. It makes my head hurt.
Dr Unlikely
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#7 Posted on 9.4.15 0951.36
Reposted on: 9.4.22 1005.26
Despite not caring about him in the slightest for like half a year now, I still have a lot of love for Wyatt as a performer and think it would take very little work and care to rehabilitate him and capitalize on the incredible potential of a 27 year old who is (at worst) solid in the ring, has tremendous upside on the mic and is both willing to and capable of developing his own character with actual nuance and thought put into it.

Wyatt's a victim of two pretty huge factors: the first being that (let's be generous and say up until Wrestlemania XXXI itself) the company has had zero interest in booking anything of note for anyone not in the main event for the last several years, leading to that pattern of match-rematch-rematch-rematch-PPV monthly death cycle for titles that nobody even wants, and that's if your lucky. They basically taught fans that storylines for anyone not in the main angles of "Being Against The Authority" or "Being Jonh Cena" weren't worth following, if they existed at all. And that concept of boiling a feud down to "the same two guys wrestle for four weeks to build to the same match at a PPV" managed to even take the shine off of watching wrestlers wrestle.

The second is the one that plagues even those people at the top of the card (like The Big Dog himself Roman Reigns): there's zero foresight or attention to detail to be seen anywhere. We saw it with The Juggernaut Roman Reigns: they actually came up with a plan for him in March 2014 then completely forgot to ever execute that plan until March 2015.

With Wyatt, they inherited a guy who (at least mostly) came up with his own character and stable idea, did all the hard work of building in the details and handling the promos and living and breathing the thing and delivered this almost fully formed doomsday cult leader cajun wizard guy who actually got so over that crowds were spontaneously singing along with him during matches. Then they forgot to book anything for him. They had a shockingly popular supernatural cult leader and never once had him convert anybody or succeed in any meaningful way for over a year, completely defanging him and teaching people to stop listening to what he was saying.

Consider this: the first big feud for this magical cult leader saw the Wyatt Family beat up and kidnap Kane (who is also magical) and Kane actually went away. Then, Kane returned and did so in this way where he completely abandoned who he was and changed his alignment, pledging himself to evil. And it was completely unrelated. Wh...what? You do an angle for a guy who has a character of taking in wayward giants and converting them to his evil mission, have him beat up and abscond with a wayward giant and then have that wayward giant...pledge himself to someone else's completely different evil mission upon his return for totally unrelated reasons? How could that be possibly be any more stupid and short-sighted?

(Here's how: Kane returns, and his main focus as a newly evil guy is to torment his former tag team partner, the very guy the evil cult leader was feuding with when Kane returned, and you still don't let Wyatt get the rub of having been responsible for Kane turning evil again.)

Ignore how much damage the Cena feud did to Wyatt for a minute (and Wyatt really did need to win at least Wrestlemania if Cena was winning that feud anyway and Wyatt was going to be challenging Undertaker this year), but consider how little thought went into breaking up the Wyatt Family (Bray "sets them free" for no reason and Rowan instantly turns face with even less explanation)...and how about how little thought must have gone into something like forming New Day - a three-man team with a positive, quasi-religious gimmick made up of intensely likeable guys (and Xavier Woods*) - only after you break up every other three man team. How much easier do the New Day guys have it if they debut as a team of fun, likeable, quasi-religious dudes who form specifically to counter the unimaginable, corrupting evil influence of the Wyatt Family and succeed in defeating and breaking them up? Like, what if Kofi forms New Day to help save Cena or Jericho or even some minor face who Wyatt actually managed to indoctrinate, and then New Day has series of fun, good matches vs. the Wyatts and they win the feud, and maybe manage to help Rowan get deprogrammed so his face turn makes even a little sense? And maybe that loss is what forces Wyatt to try to up his game by calling out The Undertaker?

Not doing any of that and instead sending Wyatt out there week after week, month after month, to cut promos about things they have no intention of ever letting him accomplish? That leads you to a feud like Wyatt vs. Ambrose, where you have that formerly massively over cult leader going against that formerly massively over deranged hobo and that somehow has zero heat and makes both guys look worse for it.

(*I don't actively dislike Xavier Woods, but that was too easy and they also never bothered to give the poor guy a character.)
Parts Unknown
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#8 Posted on 9.4.15 1015.39
Reposted on: 9.4.22 1016.31
I don't see how this is different from any other year of The Streak. Same thing with CM Punk and other challengers - they go over mid carders, they cut promos, they lose. It's pretty pointless and honestly, Taker looked old as hell out there this year.

(edited by Parts Unknown on 9.4.15 1016)
BigDaddyLoco
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#9 Posted on 9.4.15 1648.05
Reposted on: 9.4.22 1648.06

    With Wyatt, they inherited a guy who (at least mostly) came up with his own character and stable idea, did all the hard work of building in the details and handling the promos and living and breathing the thing and delivered this almost fully formed doomsday cult leader cajun wizard guy who actually got so over that crowds were spontaneously singing along with him during matches. Then they forgot to book anything for him. They had a shockingly popular supernatural cult leader and never once had him convert anybody or succeed in any meaningful way for over a year, completely defanging him and teaching people to stop listening to what he was saying.


But, nobody seems to be reaching for that brass ring.

I'll never understand why they have to break up every successful team. The Wyatts could have gone on for years doing evil Wyatt things and solidified the midcard and kept multiple guys busy while delivering quality special attraction matches. I wonder just how long The Horsemen would have gone on for before breaking up into oblivion in today's WWE.
Big Bad
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#10 Posted on 10.4.15 1901.47
Reposted on: 10.4.22 1905.30
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I wonder just how long The Horsemen would have gone on for before breaking up into oblivion in today's WWE.


The answer is "none of Flair, Arn, Tully or Ole would've been hired in the first place since they didn't have the right look."
CEOIII
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#11 Posted on 11.4.15 0213.15
Reposted on: 11.4.22 0213.24
    Originally posted by Big Bad
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      I wonder just how long The Horsemen would have gone on for before breaking up into oblivion in today's WWE.


    The answer is "none of Flair, Arn, Tully or Ole would've been hired in the first place since they didn't have the right look."


They all did kinda look like shit, didn't they? Ole and Arn looked like two guys you'd see in a bar getting drunk at like 2pm, Tully looked like an accountant, Flair had that huge ass nose......
BigDaddyLoco
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#12 Posted on 12.4.15 1627.12
Reposted on: 12.4.22 1627.13
Bray Wyatt vs Jeff Hardy is what Wyatt needs. Just stretch this feud out all summer. Wyatt could do Wyatt things that push Jeff to the brink and make him do weird Jeff Hardy things, possibly Willow things. They could keep upping the anti on the match stipulations until the blow off around Summer Slam in something like a Hell in a Cell. Hardy still has enough gas in the tank and plenty of credibility and wouldn't lose a bit of it by giving Wyatt the rub in the end or just by being wiped out by Wyatt and taking another vacation to do more non wrestling Jeff Hardy things. It would solidify the upper part of the card for a quarter. Since the WWE can't have a feud without pairing guys every week you could bring Matt in to take a beating from Wyatt or just pair him off with Harper. Or just keep it Jeff and Bray.

I don't fantasy book, but if there is a better long term feud for Wyatt I'd like to hear it.

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 12.4.15 1934)
Blind_Guardian
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#13 Posted on 12.4.15 1851.04
Reposted on: 12.4.22 1851.05
While Jeff would be an interesting surprise acquisition, he's on the TNA roster for the moment. Going to be in a giant clusterfuck of a 16-man Ultimate X tag title match in the next week or so. I imagine they'll be throwing James Storm in there for Jeff to murder and/or get murdered again by. No idea what Hardy's contract is right now, but that's presumably why this is fantasy booking The laws of time and space don't bother Dr. Unlikely, why should contracts?

Ironically, Jeff Hardy is actually in a feud with Bray Wyatt Lite, aka James Storm, aka the 'Beer' half of Beer Money. Wyatt does the cult leader better, but Storm's better at actually keeping a stable. WWE does hate the big heel stable, unless it's the Authority.

(edited by Blind_Guardian on 12.4.15 1852)
Matt Tracker
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#14 Posted on 14.4.15 1042.54
Reposted on: 14.4.22 1043.17
Perhaps melding Wyatt with Adam Rose's gimmick could salvage both. Rose brings the cult, Wyatt brings the credibility. Alter the bunny suit to a faded mask, like Rowan's lamb, and you amplify the creepy factor.
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