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oudom
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#1 Posted on 21.4.14 0132.42
Reposted on: 21.4.21 0134.00
Cercei has Tyrion arrested immediately and is looking for Sansa. Dontos, the fool that Sansa saved during Joffrey's name day, helps her escape on a row boat. They rowed to a giant ship and it turned out to be Littlefinger's ship. Dontos requested payment and instead got an arrow for his troubles. The jewelry he gave Sansa to earn her trust was all a ruse orchestrated by Littlefinger.

Margaery wonders what she is now that Joffrey is dead. Her grandma informs her that Tommen will be the new king since she never got pregnant but the Lannisters still need the Tyrell's alliance. So maybe she'll marry Tommen?

Cercei is grieving next to Joffrey's dead body. Jaime comes in and excuses the guards. She wants Jaime to kill Tyrion and believe Tyrion did it, even tho it would be so dumb if he did it and just stood there with the cup in question. Instead, Jaime sleeps with Cercei right by Joffrey's dead body.

"Team Hell No" the Hound and Arya runs into a farmer and his daughter. They pretended to be fighting for the Tully's which was the right answer so the farmer brings them in and gives them rabbit stew. The next day, the Hound robs the guy. He tells Arya they won't survive the winter because the guy couldn't defend himself.

Stannis Baratheon does a "I told you so" to Ser Davos in regards to using Gendry's blood and leeches to take out Robb Stark and Joffrey. Because Davos let Gendry go, Stannis can't take advantage of the situation. Davos wants to hire and army but they have no money. In one of his reading sessions with Stannis' daughter he remembers something about the bank at Bravos and has the little girl write a letter for him.

Sam doesn't like that there's 100 men and 1 girl so he convinces Gilly to take her kid to a nearby town which appeared to be a whore house. Yeah, much safer! Everyone makes a big joke about Sam claiming to have killed a White Walker and think Gilly is a whore. The Wildlings attack a nearby town and lets a boy go to Castle Black to tell them they are going to eat the boy's parents. The Night's Watch thinks about going to attack the Wildings but it sounds like part of their plan so they got to stay strong. 2 Crows come back through the tunnel and talk about the mutineers taking over Gilly's dad's place. Jon wants to assemble a team to take them out because if Mance finds out they only have 100 men at Castle Black instead of the thousand he told Mance... they are going to get attacked in full force.

Since last week's episode lacked nudity, Prince Oberyn is having an orgie with 3 girls and 1 guy. He tells the guy he swings both ways equally. Tywin interrupts them to make Oberyn the 3rd judge for Tyrion's murder trial in exchange for maybe a meet and greet with the Mountain, who murdered Oberyn's sister.

Daenarys' group make their way to Meereen. The gates open and one guy on horseback comes out. Danny is advised that they sent their best guy and she needs to send her's. Meereen's champion makes derogatory comments about Danny being a transvestite and openly pee's in front of Danny. She wouldn't let Grey Worm volunteer because he is the leader of the unsullied, Ser Barristan Selmy because he is old as hell and probably would lose, Ser Jorah because she needs him in the friend zone, but Daario is fine since he got recasted anyways. Meereen's champion charges at Daario with a horse and a lance. At the last moment Daario throws a dagger at the horse which sends the opponent crashing into the ground where Daario easily kills him with his sickle. Afterwards, Danny gives a speech about how everyone who follows her are free and rolls out a bunch of catapults. They catapulted barrells that seem to have neck straps in it? Probably telling them they can be free if they fight against the people who enslaved them. Break the chains!

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Big Bad
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#2 Posted on 21.4.14 0200.46
Reposted on: 21.4.21 0201.11
So is anything doing to come of Stannis and company recognizing the White Walkers' threat at the end of last season? I was figuring this year's Baratheon plotline was for Stannis, Davos, Melisandre and their crew to head north to aid in the defense of the Wall, but there's apparently something else afoot.

Tywin, meanwhile, is the only one who's on top of every problem --- the White Walkers, to Daenerys' growing power to even the Iron Islands.

That scene with Jamie and Cersei was amongst the most disgusting and uncomfortable scenes in the show's history. Jamie Lannister is not a good guy, as much as some fans of the show want him to be. The moral of this episode seemed to be showing the darker sides of fan favourites like Jamie, the Hound and even Ygritte calmly dispatching that innocent family (I presume the young lad will grow up to be the Westeros Bruce Wayne).
oudom
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#3 Posted on 21.4.14 0247.55
Reposted on: 21.4.21 0248.28
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Tywin, meanwhile, is the only one who's on top of every problem --- the White Walkers, to Daenerys' growing power to even the Iron Islands.


Oh yeah, forgot that's another reason Tywin is trying to get on Prince Oberyn's good side. Dorne knows how to deal with Dragons and he is well aware Daenarys has 3. Tywin offers Oberyn a seat in the council to advise the King.
Dawg
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#4 Posted on 21.4.14 1112.33
Reposted on: 21.4.21 1115.37
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    So is anything doing to come of Stannis and company recognizing the White Walkers' threat at the end of last season? I was figuring this year's Baratheon plotline was for Stannis, Davos, Melisandre and their crew to head north to aid in the defense of the Wall, but there's apparently something else afoot.



First they will need an army since everyone got asploded at the Battle of the Blackwater. Davos is probably having Stannis' daughter, Shireen, write the letter to the Iron Bank of Braavos so they can get gold to hire an army.

"Jaime sleeps with Cercei" is putting it mildly. That scene was very uncomfortable and now we don't know where we stand with Jaime. It looked like his face turn was going so well, too.

Also, not only does Sam the Slayer bring Gilly to a whore house in Mole's Town for "safe keeping" which is questionable but there are also Wildings raiding villages. I'm sure she'll be plenty safe now, Sam!
Madame Manga
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#5 Posted on 21.4.14 1504.41
Reposted on: 21.4.21 1505.13
    Originally posted by Big Bad

    That scene with Jamie and Cersei was amongst the most disgusting and uncomfortable scenes in the show's history. Jamie Lannister is not a good guy, as much as some fans of the show want him to be.


Considering that in the book, that scene was cast as the kind of desperate comfort sex people have when they're grieving, I sure didn't expect it to be rewritten as an outright rape. Yeah, they are both non-heroes and they do bad things, and I have a strong stomach or I wouldn't be a GoT fan, but that was difficult to process.

In general I think HBO has done an excellent job of streamlining the story, so departing from the original isn't the issue. They did also rewrite Dany's wedding night as a rape, but that made more sense than the original - the book started to read like a cheap romance novel at that point, as if GRRM had softened it at someone else's behest and gone overboard. The HBO version made the narrative point much more clear.

Since HBO has not made any truly fatal errors yet, I'll let benefit of the doubt prevail for an episode or two. I'm assuming that the rape is meant to make a permanent rift between Jaime and Cersei, which again would make sense.

But the script had better back that up all the way. Maybe in the context of a quasi-medieval male-dominant culture both of them might attempt to mollify the act, but if rape gets dismissed *by the writers* as 'she's slept with him for years therefore he can ignore her saying no,' that WOULD be a new level of disgusting.
Amos Cochran
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#6 Posted on 23.4.14 0634.46
Reposted on: 23.4.21 0636.28
There is no way on Earth that scene just gets glossed over like that. That was Jaimie - the guy who pushed a child out of a window in the *very first episode*, bear in mind - finding himself at his most powerless and bitter and sinking to the worst possible act imaginable to try and regain that sense of control. It's a horrendously unpleasant scene, but it's supposed to be.
Leroy
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#7 Posted on 23.4.14 1406.31
Reposted on: 23.4.21 1407.03
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    It's a horrendously unpleasant scene, but it's supposed to be.


It was gratuitous, and not at all necessary - and really reeks (no pun intended) of shock value for the sake of shock value. It feels to me like the writers (or whomever) didn't feel that the scene as written in the book would have the right impact, so they decided to ramp it up in order to get their point across.

No one is arguing this GoT world is Disneyland - but the TV show tends to use rape in very odd ways, and this is one way in which it would have been better to trust that the audience isn't stupid. For Jamie to go from saving Brienne from the very act he then commits on Cersei - it's very lazy writing. Anything that Cersei does from here on forward will have some tie to this event thereby making her somewhat sympathetic, instead of relying on the fact that she's always been a vile, spiteful person. Unless the writers are somehow trying to convey that she deserved it, which... I don't really even know where to begin with just how wrong that is...
Amos Cochran
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#8 Posted on 24.4.14 0331.19
Reposted on: 24.4.21 0331.52
There's no comparison between Brienne's situation and what happened in Sunday's episode. Cersei brings out the absolute worst in Jaimie, and given that he's murdered children because of her and, y'know, is banging his twin sister, him rationalizing away raping her as "not really rape" is absolutely within the confines of his established character.

And Cersei's character being defined by it from this point onward is absurd. This is a woman who has had children killed, who tortures and maims for the fun of it, who condones the most brutal and vile things imaginable in order to get ahead. Boiling it down to "well, she's sympathetic now because she got raped" isn't a failing on the show's part, it's a failing on the viewers who can't or won't engage with the complexities of the show.

For what it's worth, I do think this was intended as a reminder of Jaimie's deep psychological issues AND as a way of illustrating that, buried beneath the awfulness, Cersei is as human and vulnerable and relateble as any of the other scumbags in the show.

Ultimately I think this is a storm in a teacup. The show hasn't even had a chance to explore what the assault will mean in the long run - I think most of the reactions are based around the fact that people like Jaimie and hate Cersei, and having him commit a vile act on her has thrown that off-kilter.
Peter The Hegemon
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#9 Posted on 24.4.14 1557.45
Reposted on: 24.4.21 1558.16
    Originally posted by Madame Manga

    But the script had better back that up all the way. Maybe in the context of a quasi-medieval male-dominant culture both of them might attempt to mollify the act, but if rape gets dismissed *by the writers* as 'she's slept with him for years therefore he can ignore her saying no,' that WOULD be a new level of disgusting.


Unfortunately the director already has dismissed it as not rape. Here's hoping the writers have more sense.
lotjx
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#10 Posted on 24.4.14 1942.38
Reposted on: 24.4.21 1943.04
If they added the line about Ceresi telling Jamie to be more careful next time like it was in the book then maybe you can make the argument it wasn't rape. This however is rape. My great fear is they will say this is how they always have sex which is a total 180 from the books. There are times, the writers do things that out do the books then there are times like this where they completely fuck things up.

(edited by lotjx on 24.4.14 1943)
Madame Manga
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#11 Posted on 25.4.14 0139.50
Reposted on: 25.4.21 0140.34
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Originally posted by Madame Manga

      But the script had better back that up all the way. Maybe in the context of a quasi-medieval male-dominant culture both of them might attempt to mollify the act, but if rape gets dismissed *by the writers* as 'she's slept with him for years therefore he can ignore her saying no,' that WOULD be a new level of disgusting.


    Unfortunately the director already has dismissed it as not rape. Here's hoping the writers have more sense.


That director's statement is jaw-dropping. You've got to wonder what the hell he thinks it would TAKE to make that scene look like a 'legitimate rape'. There was nothing ambiguous about it in the moment - and I'm not real eager to look at it again for a closer analysis.

I'm starting to get pissed off here, which disturbs me. I'd much rather be anticipating the rest of the season with wicked glee and great interest. Don't jump the shark, HBO.
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