It's False
Scrapple
Level: 153
   
Posts: 4257/6155
EXP: 44827296
For next: 496211
Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!
Since last post: 2865 days
Last activity: 1248 days
|  #1 Posted on 4.2.11 1434.10
Reposted on: 4.2.18 1438.17 | The end of the "Core 4" era.
New York Yankees' Andy Pettitte Retires, says not 'easy decision'
NEW YORK -- Andy Pettitte announced his retirement at Yankee Stadium, saying he no longer has the "hunger" to pitch another season.
With wife Laura sitting at his side, Pettitte said Friday he had conflicting feelings about leaving the game. He said "it was an easy decision, but it wasn't an easy decision." As recently as two weeks ago, he thought he would return for another season.
The 38-year-old left-hander said at a news conference that his body was in shape to pitch but "my heart's not where it needs to be."
"It just didn't feel right for me anymore," he said. "I didn't have the hunger, the drive I felt like I needed."
Out of the core four of Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, and Posada, Pettitte's the first one to retire. It's somewhat bittersweet, as I loved to root against his Yankees, but Pettitte was always under-the-radar dominant, especially in the playoffs. | Promote this thread! |             | lotjx
Scrapple
Level: 131
Posts: 1396/4785
EXP: 26373560
For next: 51130
Since: 5.9.08
Since last post: 2348 days
Last activity: 2186 days
| #2 Posted on 4.2.11 1438.31
Reposted on: 4.2.18 1438.34 | | NOOOO!! The best post-game pitcher in all of baseball is gone. I would say something about how he should go to the HOF, but it looks like the ESPN Gods and old men baseball voters won't allow it. Every day, the WWE gets better looking then the baseball HOF due to baseball's inflexibility. | Leroy
Boudin blanc
Level: 101
Posts: 1874/2336
EXP: 10561886
For next: 155826
Since: 7.2.02
Since last post: 678 days
Last activity: 593 days
| #3 Posted on 4.2.11 1454.49
Reposted on: 4.2.18 1455.07 | Originally posted by lotjx
Every day, the WWE gets better looking then the baseball HOF due to baseball's inflexibility.
Insert Pete Rose joke [HERE]. | StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 162
Posts: 5293/7105
EXP: 55256744
For next: 34651
Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks
Since last post: 1604 days
Last activity: 1604 days
| #4 Posted on 4.2.11 1642.10
Reposted on: 4.2.18 1642.29 | Wilbon, on PTI Yesterday was emphatic that Andy is a sure fire HOF guy. Of the late 90s/early 2000s guys, him, Bernie Williams and Paul O'Neil all being retired saddens me. I love the Yankees, but the team has no real personality anymore! Jeter, Posada, and Rivera can't will the rest of the team to have the "it factor" if Joe Torre's teams.
| It's False
Scrapple
Level: 153
Posts: 4259/6155
EXP: 44827296
For next: 496211
Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!
Since last post: 2865 days
Last activity: 1248 days
| #5 Posted on 4.2.11 1652.57
Reposted on: 4.2.18 1653.21 | Originally posted by StaggerLee
Wilbon, on PTI Yesterday was emphatic that Andy is a sure fire HOF guy.
David Aldridge (on TK's radio show) had a good counter to this. If you don't vote in McGuire, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc. because of their alleged steroid use, it'd be a double standard to vote in Pettitte, an admitted HGH user. I don't think he's as sure-fire a HOF'er as we might think, even though his career numbers (particularly his career postseason numbers) say otherwise.
(edited by It's False on 4.2.11 1506) | StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 162
Posts: 5294/7105
EXP: 55256744
For next: 34651
Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks
Since last post: 1604 days
Last activity: 1604 days
| #6 Posted on 4.2.11 1720.26
Reposted on: 4.2.18 1724.36 | 102 games over. 500, the most post season wins in history, and five rings.
Buster Olney was on saying the same thing as Its False.
I know he's borderline stats wise but the Yankees wouldn't have won 4 of the 5 titles they won if he wasn't pitching on those teams.
| graves9
Sujuk
Level: 66
Posts: 302/1008
EXP: 2440864
For next: 21000
Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY
Since last post: 2356 days
Last activity: 2115 days
| #7 Posted on 4.2.11 2012.45
Reposted on: 4.2.18 2014.15 | | Pettite had a heck of a (tainted) career but he's not a hall of famer. He was not nearly as good as Mussina, who is far more deserving. Pettite was only the best pitcher on the team a few times and really never one of the top pitchers in Baseball. | graves9
Sujuk
Level: 66
Posts: 303/1008
EXP: 2440864
For next: 21000
Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY
Since last post: 2356 days
Last activity: 2115 days
| #8 Posted on 4.2.11 2013.57
Reposted on: 4.2.18 2020.47 | Originally posted by StaggerLee
102 games over. 500, the most post season wins in history, and five rings.
Buster Olney was on saying the same thing as Its False.
I know he's borderline stats wise but the Yankees wouldn't have won 4 of the 5 titles they won if he wasn't pitching on those teams.
Wonderful put him in monument park. He doesn't deserve Hall entry. | BoromirMark
Potato korv
Level: 60
Posts: 622/691
EXP: 1690416
For next: 82372
Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI
Since last post: 3938 days
Last activity: 3938 days
| #9 Posted on 4.2.11 2040.15
Reposted on: 4.2.18 2041.26 | No Jack Morris, then no Andy Pettite.
Oh yeah also the steroids thing. | StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 162
Posts: 5295/7105
EXP: 55256744
For next: 34651
Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks
Since last post: 1604 days
Last activity: 1604 days
| #10 Posted on 5.2.11 1001.20
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1004.29 | | I am all for Jack Morris getting in. Its funny when borderline guys are up, people will say "but he never won a ring" but when other borderline guys have rings, then its solely a statistics argument against them. Andy was great. But borderline HIF. | hansen9j
Andouille
Level: 97
Posts: 1516/2144
EXP: 9140698
For next: 176660
Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK
Since last post: 501 days
Last activity: 199 days
|  #11 Posted on 5.2.11 1045.22
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1051.43 | Originally posted by StaggerLee
Its funny when borderline guys are up, people will say "but he never won a ring" but when other borderline guys have rings, then its solely a statistics argument against them.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it is not the same people making both arguments. | spf
Scrapple
Level: 145
Posts: 5086/5410
EXP: 37300089
For next: 304083
Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada
Since last post: 3736 days
Last activity: 1070 days
| #12 Posted on 5.2.11 1211.59
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1213.12 | Originally posted by StaggerLee
I am all for Jack Morris getting in. Its funny when borderline guys are up, people will say "but he never won a ring" but when other borderline guys have rings, then its solely a statistics argument against them. Andy was great. But borderline HIF.
Any one who ever uses the argument "so and so never won a title" when discussing whether a guy in a team sport should be in the HOF of that sport is a moron. You should not listen to these people.
Certainly when a player is on the borderline then that player's performance in the postseason should be considered, though usually the guys we think of as awesome in the postseason turn out to not have been the all-destroying titans we remember them as (like Jack Morris). Don't forget, Andy Petitte also has more postseason losses than all but 2 other pitchers. Unless someone is uniquely dominant in postseason play (say perhaps if Orlando Hernandez had put up a borderline HOF career) it really doesn't serve much purpose to think about the postseason record one way or the other.
That said, and really there is no reason to link them other than that someone in this thread has already done so, Petitte has a much stronger HOF case than Morris. | StaggerLee
Scrapple
Level: 162
Posts: 5296/7105
EXP: 55256744
For next: 34651
Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks
Since last post: 1604 days
Last activity: 1604 days
| #13 Posted on 5.2.11 1224.22
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1229.01 | | Oh, I didn't want anybody to take my Yankee love as an excuse that I think he's in the HOF or not. As much as I love him and what he did for NY I know his overall numbers are suspect. And the taint of the hgh thing will probably keep him out. (But that's a whole other story) | hansen9j
Andouille
Level: 97
Posts: 1517/2144
EXP: 9140698
For next: 176660
Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK
Since last post: 501 days
Last activity: 199 days
| #14 Posted on 5.2.11 1234.09
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1235.46 | Originally posted by spf
Unless someone is uniquely dominant in postseason play (say perhaps if Orlando Hernandez had put up a borderline HOF career) it really doesn't serve much purpose to think about the postseason record one way or the other.
Schilling will be that test case. In 19 career games, he's had three games that can actively be described as "not good" (and one of them was the result of an exploded ankle), and has otherwise pitched some incredible gems. People that start that many games should not have a postseason ERA of 2.23. Meanwhile, his regular season numbers put him at the borderline. | ekedolphin
Scrapple
Level: 149
Posts: 4275/5747
EXP: 40817574
For next: 517661
Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA
Since last post: 1156 days
Last activity: 541 days
| #15 Posted on 5.2.11 1307.03
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1308.57 | Originally posted by lotjx
NOOOO!! The best post-game pitcher in all of baseball is gone.
I assume you mean postseason, because being the best post-game pitcher in baseball is something of a dubious distinction.
(edited by ekedolphin on 5.2.11 1407) | BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni
Level: 73
Posts: 1046/1104
EXP: 3366407
For next: 119478
Since: 2.1.03
From: MA
Since last post: 2057 days
Last activity: 2056 days
| | | Y!: |  |
|
| #16 Posted on 5.2.11 1538.38
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1543.46 | Originally posted by StaggerLee
Oh, I didn't want anybody to take my Yankee love as an excuse that I think he's in the HOF or not. As much as I love him and what he did for NY I know his overall numbers are suspect. And the taint of the hgh thing will probably keep him out. (But that's a whole other story)
I say let all the steroid/HGH users in. You want to say it's "cheating" then fine. Gaylord Perry admitted to using the spitball as his main pitch, and he's in the HOF. Before steroids amphetamines ("greenies") were used by players in the 70's-80's, and Mike Schmidt admitted to using them at times. I don't hear anyone calling to remove them from the HOF. Also, IIRC, Canseco said there is already someone in the HOF that he knew used steroids. If more names from the list of 103 get leaked out or is ever made public then it would'nt suprise me if someone in the hall is on it.
(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 5.2.11 1639) | odessasteps
Scrapple
Level: 141
Posts: 4177/5065
EXP: 33789881
For next: 330217
Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA
Since last post: 4238 days
Last activity: 4204 days
| #17 Posted on 5.2.11 1600.33
Reposted on: 5.2.18 1608.24 | Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34
Originally posted by StaggerLee
Oh, I didn't want anybody to take my Yankee love as an excuse that I think he's in the HOF or not. As much as I love him and what he did for NY I know his overall numbers are suspect. And the taint of the hgh thing will probably keep him out. (But that's a whole other story)
I say let all the steroid/HGH users in. You want to say it's "cheating" then fine. Gaylord Perry admitted to using the spitball as his main pitch, and he's in the HOF. Before steroids amphetamines ("greenies") were used by players in the 70's-80's, and Mike Schmidt admitted to using them at times. I don't hear anyone calling to remove them from the HOF. Also, IIRC, Canseco said there is already someone in the HOF that he knew used steroids. If more names from the list of 103 get leaked out or is ever made public then it would'nt suprise me if someone in the hall is on it.
(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 5.2.11 1639)
The two people mentioned most as the steroid user in the hall are Henderson and Ryan. | Big Bad
Scrapple
Level: 163
Posts: 5771/7062
EXP: 55625780
For next: 861985
Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario
Since last post: 2593 days
Last activity: 2162 days
| #18 Posted on 6.2.11 0105.30
Reposted on: 6.2.18 0106.48 | Not a HOFer. Typical "let's overrate this guy because he pitched in New York" reaction. Very good pitcher, no question, but certainly not an all-time elite.
Addendum: A Joe Posanski post pointing out that Pettitte's closest comparable is.....Chuck Finley.
http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/02/pettitte-junction.html
Originally posted by It's False
Out of the core four of Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, and Posada, Pettitte's the first one to retire.
Core four, my ass. I had a bit laugh at the SI article about the four of them last summer. "They've been teammates for 16 years!...uh, except Pettitte, who spent three years in Houston. They've never been tied to steroids!...uh, except Pettitte, who used HGH." Andy Pettitte is the Zeppo Marx of the Yankee core four.
(edited by Big Bad on 6.2.11 1441) | jfkfc
Liverwurst
Level: 75
Posts: 1129/1179
EXP: 3786532
For next: 40389
Since: 9.2.02
Since last post: 3553 days
Last activity: 3361 days
| #19 Posted on 7.2.11 0757.16
Reposted on: 7.2.18 0757.19 | Originally posted by Big Bad
Not a HOFer. ...Very good pitcher, no question, but certainly not an all-time elite.
Agreed. Just like how I've always felt about Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris.
I'm in the same camp as StaggerLee about AP. The HGH thing should taint any chance he'd have, but I'm unsure there was much of a chance to begin with. Being a Yanks guy, I'd put him in the Munson-Mattingly-O'Neill-Bernie group...loved them, will miss them, but looking at the game as a whole, not an "all time great". Of the other three, IMO, Jeter and Rivera should go on the first ballot. | | ALL ORIGINAL POSTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW AVAILABLE |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
