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|  #1 Posted on 24.6.04 0307.10
Reposted on: 24.6.11 0307.59 | I just got back from seeing Fahrenheit 9/11. It's still sinking in, but it was amazingly unsettling. The first hour could be subtitled "Bush Does The Darndest Things". It showcases the insanely moronic things Dubya has done, then shows the continued relationship between the Bushes and the Bin Ladens. And then that segues into probably the most gripping part of the film: Iraq. We see tons of troops talking about what's going on, tons of troops talking about wanting to go home, and tons of shots of maimed Iraqi civilians. Amazingly well done. The only piece I felt detracted from the whole was a confrontation between a woman who'd lost a son in Iraq and a pro-war protester. It seemed very staged. Everything else fit, largely because 95% of everything is news footage, interviews with Congressmen or Senators or former military or FBI folks.
Keep in mind that the film is not so much anti-Republican as much as it's anti-corruption. Moore's managed once again to craft a film that's at once gripping, frightening and humourous. It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.
Highest recommendation. | Promote this thread! |             | KaneRobot
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|  #2 Posted on 25.6.04 0301.59
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0302.18 | Originally posted by Freeway420
It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.
Moore wouldn't like that if it actually happened, since he is VERY much in the "rich" group, as much has he pretends he's still some regular guy living in Flint. | SeVen ™
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|  #3 Posted on 25.6.04 0341.06
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0343.09 | | It isn't saying being rich is wrong. Just the rich always getting away with doing wrong. For ref. see O.J., Ken Lay, Marc Rich, etc... | meatcurtains
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| #4 Posted on 25.6.04 0449.24
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0449.59 | Originally posted by SeVen
It isn't saying being rich is wrong. Just the rich always getting away with doing wrong. For ref. see O.J., Ken Lay, Marc Rich, etc...
For every rich guy getting away with something, there are a bunch of poor people who let them get off. | dwaters
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| #5 Posted on 25.6.04 0632.25
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0632.35 | I'd see it if the cinemas in town were actually showing it.
Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think??? There are two cinemas like five miles apart that show the exact same list of movies. Frustrating. | DrOp
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| #6 Posted on 25.6.04 0653.33
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0654.28 | meatcurtains said:
For every rich guy getting away with something, there are a bunch of poor people who let them get off.
The whole concept of "jury of your peers" precludes that happening in most cases. People with wealth *usually* get tried by people in their zip code area, who are also usually wealthy (unless there is some weird change of venue).
Back on topic:
I know Moore can be erratic and maniacal. Nonetheless, I have a special place for a guy who shows that a convicted con who is white will get a cab before a black businessman most of the time. And if Bush let himself be recorded being simple, why should that be anyone else's problem? | Grimis
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| #7 Posted on 25.6.04 0726.36
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0727.47 | Originally posted by dwaters
Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think???
Garfield is probably more factual.... | DrOp
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| #8 Posted on 25.6.04 0846.19
Reposted on: 25.6.11 0846.51 | http://www.cnn.com/ 2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/ 24/review.fahrenheit/ index.html
Documentarians always have their own points of view, but Moore takes his positions and then guards them with pitbull-like intensity (though with humor as well). That tendency was plain in such past efforts as "Roger and Me" and the Academy Award-winning "Bowling For Columbine." "Fahrenheit 9/11" takes his burning passion to new heights; the heat is downright tangible.
But the question isn't whether "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a fair and balanced look at its subject matter. Of course it isn't. Rather, is it good filmmaking?
The answer is yes.
Is this not factual? (not including he writer's opinion):
Perhaps the most damaging footage shows Bush on September 11, sitting in a Florida classroom for a full seven minutes after he had been told that the second tower had been struck, and that it was clear the horrific events in New York were a terrorist attack, not a tragic accident. Moore lets this moment go on and on: The president of the United States, stone-faced in front of dozens of schoolchildren, doing absolutely nothing, as our nation comes under attack.
| AWArulz
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| #9 Posted on 25.6.04 1234.40
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1235.10 | Originally posted by DrOp
http://www.cnn.com/ 2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/ 24/review.fahrenheit/ index.html
Documentarians always have their own points of view, but Moore takes his positions and then guards them with pitbull-like intensity (though with humor as well). That tendency was plain in such past efforts as "Roger and Me" and the Academy Award-winning "Bowling For Columbine." "Fahrenheit 9/11" takes his burning passion to new heights; the heat is downright tangible.
But the question isn't whether "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a fair and balanced look at its subject matter. Of course it isn't. Rather, is it good filmmaking?
The answer is yes.
Is this not factual? (not including he writer's opinion):
Perhaps the most damaging footage shows Bush on September 11, sitting in a Florida classroom for a full seven minutes after he had been told that the second tower had been struck, and that it was clear the horrific events in New York were a terrorist attack, not a tragic accident. Moore lets this moment go on and on: The president of the United States, stone-faced in front of dozens of schoolchildren, doing absolutely nothing, as our nation comes under attack.
So Dubya should have gotten up, scared the bejezus out of the kids and left. Like - do you think that everything that could have gone on wasn't going on and do you think an executive could have changed was was going on in 7 minutes. Dubya already knew that Tower 1 had been hit and he already dealt with the situation as best as a guy who is in an executive role can - he delegated authority - to people who scrambled jets and did other stuff - wrongly it seems, but those 7 minutes of Dubya wouldn't have changed that.
| oldschoolhero
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|  #10 Posted on 25.6.04 1246.33
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1246.33 | Oh come the fuck on. How is him excusing himself and getting himself into the role he's supposed to be filling scaring the bejesus out of a roomful of kids. A quick smile, a "sorry, I'm needed"....nope, just sit there, THAT'LL help.
I mean, I'm not saying that there's a whole lot he could've DONE in that time, but I sure do find it indicative of the man's mental capacity for the job that he's in that he feels the need to just sit there for seven minutes after being told his country's under attack.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 25.6.04 1046) | CRZ
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| #11 Posted on 25.6.04 1325.59
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1329.01 | Originally posted by oldschoolhero
Oh come the fuck on. How is him excusing himself and getting himself into the role he's supposed to be filling scaring the bejesus out of a roomful of kids. A quick smile, a "sorry, I'm needed"....nope, just sit there, THAT'LL help.
I mean, I'm not saying that there's a whole lot he could've DONE in that time, but I sure do find it indicative of the man's mental capacity for the job that he's in that he feels the need to just sit there for seven minutes after being told his country's under attack.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 25.6.04 1046)
We're retreading old ground here. I STILL would rather have this discussion take place in Politics (if at all). | krakken2000
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| #12 Posted on 25.6.04 1356.57
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1357.14 | I decided since it was a slow work day I would go take a long lunch and catch a matinee of "Fahrenheit 9/11"
Imagine my surprise when I arrive at the downtown Seattle multiplex and not only is there a line practiclaly out the door but almost all showings for the entire day are sold out.
So with my plans thwarted I decided to come back to work and goof off on the internet.
Oddly enough though there are plenty of seats for "White Chicks."
| AWArulz
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| #13 Posted on 25.6.04 1410.30
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1410.45 | Originally posted by CRZ
Originally posted by oldschoolhero
Oh come the **** on. How is him excusing himself and getting himself into the role he's supposed to be filling scaring the bejesus out of a roomful of kids. A quick smile, a "sorry, I'm needed"....nope, just sit there, THAT'LL help.
I mean, I'm not saying that there's a whole lot he could've DONE in that time, but I sure do find it indicative of the man's mental capacity for the job that he's in that he feels the need to just sit there for seven minutes after being told his country's under attack.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 25.6.04 1046)
We're retreading old ground here. I STILL would rather have this discussion take place in Politics (if at all).
Zed, it's a political movie. I have to admit I didn't even realize we were in Random and not politics. But, if we were talking dodgeball, we'd be talking sports. If it was New York Minute, it might be anorexia -
Michael Moore's whole reason for making this film (I'm sorry, A documentary (a non-fiction film which usually, although not always, has a particular point of view regarding its subject matter;)is true and Moore has made untrue statements and sliced out-of contect film bits together in his so-called documentories before, especially in Bowling for Columbine, so I refuse to call this film one until I see it and determine if it really is one) is to hurt the president, not to present facts. It kind of meets this definition:
A way of presenting a belief that seeks to generate acceptance without regard to facts or the right of others to be heard. Propaganda often presents the same argument repeatedly, in the simplest terms and ignores all rebuttal or counter-argument.
Since Al Gore accused the president of using the Gestapo to undermine the free press (The administration works closely with a network of "rapid response" digital Brown Shirts who work to pressure reporters and their editors for "undermining support for our troops." at http://www.alternet.org/election04/19047/ ), I think I'll award Michael Moore the Leni Riefenstahl award.
and I'll copy this in politics and not respond again here.
| Quezzy
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| #14 Posted on 25.6.04 1526.44
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1528.30 | Originally posted by Freeway420
It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.
It might be a great movie, and it might be factual or not, I don't know for sure. But I don't see what point it proves, if he just leaves it to the viewer. I mean what's the point of attacking someone with a hateful documentary unless you have some kind of solution from the problem. Did George W. do some things that weren't good? Sure, he's not perfect, but how do we fix that, give us a solution to this problem you've revealed. Instead of making a movie that is only going to bash George W. and get yourself praise, why don't you find a better candidate and use your money to support is campaign. It's not enough to just point a problem, think of a way to fix it then I'll listen. | rockdotcom_2.0
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| #15 Posted on 25.6.04 1600.24
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1603.29 | Originally posted by Quezzy
Originally posted by Freeway420
It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.
It might be a great movie, and it might be factual or not, I don't know for sure. But I don't see what point it proves, if he just leaves it to the viewer. I mean what's the point of attacking someone with a hateful documentary unless you have some kind of solution from the problem. Did George W. do some things that weren't good? Sure, he's not perfect, but how do we fix that, give us a solution to this problem you've revealed. Instead of making a movie that is only going to bash George W. and get yourself praise, why don't you find a better candidate and use your money to support is campaign. It's not enough to just point a problem, think of a way to fix it then I'll listen.
But what do you think would happen if Moore made this film as an explicit endorsement of John Kerry?. Jesus, The GOP would go absolutely batshit on a level extreme for even them. Im a Kerry supporter and I dont think I would want Moore trumpeting electing Kery in this movie. | avonhun
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| #16 Posted on 25.6.04 1746.42
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1746.44 | | although i dont agree with all the things said in this movie, it is a good condensed source of information for a number of events that transpired in this country in the last four years. the unconstitutional 2000 presidential election, the war in iraq, the patriot act... my major problem with moore in the past is that he presented information without a direct message. this film has a clear message: to rid the white house of george bush. go see this movie and make up your own mind because it is unlikely you will find an unbiased view of the film, including this one. | Eddie Famous
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| #17 Posted on 25.6.04 1752.49
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1752.50 | Originally posted by avonhun
the unconstitutional 2000 presidential election
When did that happen? Don't recall any ruling on that... | fuelinjected
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| #18 Posted on 25.6.04 1906.15
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1906.30 | Re: The Seven Minutes
Wouldn't you want your President to be Type A? Regardless of his politics, a Type A person would not have just sat there. | ges7184
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| #19 Posted on 25.6.04 1934.26
Reposted on: 25.6.11 1936.36 | Regardless, nothing that Bush done in those seven minutes would have changed a damn thing. It's not significant (his explanation was that he was waiting for more information, which isn't that unreasonable. As far as looking dumbfounded, he ALWAYS looks dumbfounded.).
I fear that there will be more emphasis and debate placed on this meaningless seven minutes than the hours, days, months, and now years of Bush actions since then that deserve more scrutiny than what happened in that school. | CRZ
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| #20 Posted on 25.6.04 2055.58
Reposted on: 25.6.11 2056.01 | In case you don't watch the News Hour, NY and LA Times film critics Jonathan Foreman and Kenneth Turan engaged in discussion and PBS is good enough to provide RealAudio:
http://audio.pbs.org:8080/ ramgen/newshour/expansion/ 2004/06/25/moore28.rm? altplay=moore28.rm
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