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21.6.14 0557
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - The Curious HHH/Nash II Buildup
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joepet
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#1 Posted on 11.6.03 1956.22
Reposted on: 11.6.10 1958.24
It seems that everyone and their grandma knows that the HHH vs Nash title rematch is going to suck. Even the WWE is going out of it's way to divert attention from the challenger towards the special guest referee.

What I want to know is, if they know the match will suck, why do they have to be so pig-headed about seeing it through? Several years ago, a Summerslam I-C title match between Shawn Michaels and Sid was canned with only a couple weeks notice to a Shawn vs Razor Ramon ladder match rematch (even though both were faces at the time). The only reason that interim commisionner Gorilla Monsoon gave was that "this is what the fans want to see"

How difficult would it be to sledgehammer Nash out of the picture and do something else? Like insert Shawn Michaels as the new avenging challenger, or simply having Austin go out and tell HHH: "You're Next." Neither option is anything spectacular, but at least it would be a step in the right direction.

How many times does WWE have to relearn the lesson that you have to give the fans what they want, instead of telling the fans what they should want?
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ges7184
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#2 Posted on 11.6.03 2027.44
Reposted on: 11.6.10 2029.03
The question is this, we know that Shawn/Razor produced a great match, but did it produce a great buyrate? I don't know the answer to that. But I tend to think that slingshoting to a rushed angle (such as suddenly rushing to a Goldberg/HHH match) would not be good for long-term business. I think it's better to just lie in the bed they made, and then properly build to the next PPV with a different angle, which will give the angle proper time to develop and make people want to pay for the match.
Tenken347
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#3 Posted on 11.6.03 2136.38
Reposted on: 11.6.10 2139.33
Simple. They want to use this PPV to build up Goldberg as a serious world title threat. Beating Rosy and Jamal does not accomplish this, but a solid match with Jericho after a month of build does. There really aren't any other credible challengers for HHH right now, so they threw Nash at him again. They've even done their best to make it interesting, what with the back story, the cell, and Foley, but even they know it's just a placeholder main event. Money says on Monday, HHH comes out, says now he's beaten everyone, Goldberg comes out, says no you haven't, and we go to SummerSlam where Bill takes the gold.
HrdCoreJoe
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#4 Posted on 11.6.03 2208.23
Reposted on: 11.6.10 2209.11
"Money says on Monday, HHH comes out, says now he's beaten everyone, Goldberg comes out, says no you haven't, and we go to SummerSlam where Bill takes the gold."

And/Or gets humiliated beyond belief in the feud with HHH. It is a nice idea that Bill might win that belt from Trips, though.
Oliver
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#5 Posted on 11.6.03 2320.06
Reposted on: 11.6.10 2321.18
It's nice to think that Trips will lose the belt someday down the road, but I don't think he'll lose it to *Gasp!* a WCW guy! He's buried Booker T, Chris Jericho, and everyone else that's not WWF/E originally. Why would he start with Goldberg?
darkmatcher
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#6 Posted on 11.6.03 2331.28
Reposted on: 11.6.10 2331.53

    Originally posted by Tenken347
    Simple. They want to use this PPV to build up Goldberg as a serious world title threat. Beating Rosy and Jamal does not accomplish this, but a solid match with Jericho after a month of build does. There really aren't any other credible challengers for HHH right now, so they threw Nash at him again. They've even done their best to make it interesting, what with the back story, the cell, and Foley, but even they know it's just a placeholder main event. Money says on Monday, HHH comes out, says now he's beaten everyone, Goldberg comes out, says no you haven't, and we go to SummerSlam where Bill takes the gold.


This was exactly my theory on this whole situation. Thank you!
fuelinjected
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#7 Posted on 11.6.03 2342.27
Reposted on: 11.6.10 2343.47
Goldberg's not ready yet. His interview skills aren't that of a World Champion. His in-ring work and selling isn't good enough. He's very uncooperative with the creative team because he won't do comedy. It wouldn't be right to put the belt on him at SummerSlam. Better be safe to just keep it on Triple H, keep it strong until one of these young wrestlers makes something of themselves. Maybe bring over Brock or Kurt from Smackdown or sign Sting. Yeah, that'd be good. Goldberg's not championship material in WWE.

I'll believe HHH putting over Goldberg as a monster for the title when I see it.
Nag
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#8 Posted on 12.6.03 0024.32
Reposted on: 12.6.10 0027.29
It wouldn't be difficult at all to ax Nash. But this is the way Hunter wants it. With Foley coming in, they at least bring in an added element to an otherwise lackluster match. Everyone is pacified! Nash and HHH get the big PPV pay off. Foley gets to shill his book. And WWE gets the a few extra buys, well theoretically speaking!

You guys failed to mentioned, with that SS95 card that had HBK vs. Ramon. The main event was Mable vs. Diesel, yes, remember that debacle of a main event build. The big selling point with that match was Lex Luger, and would he join British Bulldog against Diesel. I think the main ran 7 or 8 minutes. I'm pretty sure it was shorter then the Horowitz/Skip match on the same card. Think thats going to happen Sunday?
Notorious F.A.B.
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#9 Posted on 12.6.03 0117.03
Reposted on: 12.6.10 0117.20
I don't know.

When they said they were going to give Nash another month I figured it was the Steiner deal. His first match against Hunter was fucking awful. Yet he got another match, which was merely bad.

Maybe two main events are in their contracts or something.
joepet
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#10 Posted on 12.6.03 0310.41
Reposted on: 12.6.10 0319.55
I don't think Brock Lesnar's mic skills are at the level of a World Champion, but that didn't stop them from giving him the belt sans Heyman...
tasslex
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#11 Posted on 12.6.03 0903.53
Reposted on: 12.6.10 0906.07

    Originally posted by SOK
    It's nice to think that Trips will lose the belt someday down the road, but I don't think he'll lose it to *Gasp!* a WCW guy! He's buried Booker T, Chris Jericho, and everyone else that's not WWF/E originally. Why would he start with Goldberg?

And if I was one of the WCW guys that had been in the WWE longer than Goldberg I'd be royally PISSED that HE was the first ex-WCWer since the merger to be given anything but the short end of the stick in a World Title situation.
Ryan_A
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#12 Posted on 12.6.03 1054.07
Reposted on: 12.6.10 1057.35

    Originally posted by tasslex


      And if I was one of the WCW guys that had been in the WWE longer than Goldberg I'd be royally PISSED that HE was the first ex-WCWer since the merger to be given anything but the short end of the stick in a World Title situation.



    Except for Jericho.
redsoxnation
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#13 Posted on 12.6.03 1120.45
Reposted on: 12.6.10 1126.39
A few differences between Sid/Michaels being replaced by Michaels/Hall and the Trip/Nash match for this upcoming PPV. First and foremost, by replacing Sid with Hall, it placed a Clique member in the match. By removing Nash, that would be taking out a Clique member, and no one would want to deprive a Clique member of a top of the card match. And of course, the stated reasoning for placing Hall in the match was because the fans wanted to see it. After Nash and Steiner facing Trip in 5 of the first 6 PPV's this year, what the fans want to see is not on the top of list of priorities for the company.
Oliver
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#14 Posted on 14.6.03 0938.31
Reposted on: 14.6.10 0938.55

    Originally posted by Ryan_A

      Originally posted by tasslex


        And if I was one of the WCW guys that had been in the WWE longer than Goldberg I'd be royally PISSED that HE was the first ex-WCWer since the merger to be given anything but the short end of the stick in a World Title situation.



      Except for Jericho.

    Jericho joined before the dubyaSEEdubya buyout, though.
BigVitoMark
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#15 Posted on 14.6.03 1758.00
Reposted on: 14.6.10 1759.03
That's an interesting idea, but it would have come about too late.

I don't think there's any question that putting off the HHH/Goldberg match until SummerSlam is the right idea. They'll have been able to put two months of hype time into it by then, and that way we'll know one way or another what kind of mileage there is to get out of Goldberg. I think we've seen by now that HHH is not a draw anymore, so if SS can do a good buyrate it will be (at least in part) because there's interest in seeing Goldberg go for the title. I believe this is the case, but only if it's built up properly. If they do a good job in building anticipation and SS doesn't do well, again we will see that there's no money in Bill Goldberg.

As far as the Nash situation goes, it seems they were set on doing a rematch from the word go. The right thing to do in my opinion would have been to have HHH beat Nash at Judgment Day and be done with it. Let Nash move on and face Randy Orton this month to give the kid a big name opponent, and have someone like The Hurricane face Hunter. Have Hurricane pull a clean upset pin the night after Judgment Day and go from there, maybe even giving him another win in a tag match along the way. The point is, everyone knows that Nash is a lame duck challenger this month, and given the reaction he's been getting I'd almost guarantee that a Hurricane world title challenge, unlikely as it would be, would draw more interest to this pay per view than Kevin Nash is going to. But then, we all know how likely that scenario would be to play out.

More to the original topic, though...when they scrapped the Shawn/Sid match and went with Shawn/Razor, they were able to do it on no notice and no hype because the match hyped itself. Ladder matches weren't on every third PPV back in 1995, so seeing the WM X rematch (16 or 17 months later, I might add) was a really big deal. At this point, I can't think of any match outside of maybe - MAYBE - Austin vs. Goldberg that could hype itself the way that match did.
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