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19.6.14 0622
The 7 - Pro Wrestling - Have we just been welcomed to the Brock Lesnar Mega-Push?
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#1 Posted on 11.6.02 1452.08
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1459.01
For a long time, there has been the accepted practice of putting new wrestlers through "the humbling process" before getting the really big push. In some cases, I think it worked well and in others, I think it was a real mistake.

With the exception of Kurt Angle (debut to winning the WWF title in 11 months), I don't think anybody has escaped this practice in recent memory.

Enter Brock Lesnar. Before the Austin fiasco, he was scheduled to face Stone Cold in the main event of Raw last night. Even after that was written out, he won his qualifying match against Bubba Ray Dudley, then made himself a very key part of the main event angle.

Vince himself said that some shake-ups needed to happen. Anybody else with me in seeing the possibility of a Brock Lesnar super-fast mega-push happening RIGHT NOW? Further, do you think it's a good or bad idea?
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#2 Posted on 11.6.02 1508.01
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1523.36
if Brock becomes "the next big king", then I will cry. Cry for the sake of the enitre wrestling industry.
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#3 Posted on 11.6.02 1522.04
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1529.04
I think a Brock Lesnar megapush is a good short-term idea. His feud with Buh Buh was pretty good, but he needs to make an impact now to be seen as a real threat. When you look at who he's been facing in the last few months (Hardyz), it's pretty clear that he should be doing more and we saw some of that last night.

However, I don't want to see this lead to a feud with a debuting Goldberg. Lesnar has the potential to be WWE's own star, so hopefully he'll get to come into his own here.
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#4 Posted on 11.6.02 1636.53
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1659.04
Lesnar getting a main event push before RVD or Booker is somewhat ludicrous. But it also makes sense given Vince's track record. He likes pushing -his- guys, guys who've only made their name in the WWF, who don't have an extensive history elsewhere. I've always felt that's why Jericho, Benoit, etc. have had to wait to get the title level push. He wants them to know that they reached that level under -his- guidance, not based on residual heat from another promotion.

Brock's never been anywhere but the WWF/E. I haven't really seen anything spectacular from him yet, but he's not a slug either. I don't think I'd have a fit with him winning KotR. Personally, I prefer (you guessed it) RVD or Booker, but Brock's better than X-Pac or Val Venis for the crown at least. Jericho's already above it, though, so I don't really see the point of him winning.

My personal booking? X-pac over Booker on RAW (via nWO cheating), RVD by DQ over Lesnar when Lesnar gets enraged at tenacious RVD and beats the living shit out of him with a chair. This not only puts Brock over as a monster, but it gives RVD a bit of an underdog, injury-selling angle going into the tourney. RVD gets through his match with X-pac on PPV, then faces Jericho in the finals. Jericho mercilessly exploits his injuries at the hands of Brock (Complete with J.R> screaming "Stop the damn match!", until RVD manages to come back for the desperation win.

I know, Fantasy booking sucks. But I've got to do something to get me through my boring workday.
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#5 Posted on 11.6.02 1650.53
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1659.07
I like Lesnar quite a bit. I'm not saying that he should be pushed to the moon just yet but I think his athletic abillity and his size will allow him to work good programs with a lot of different wrestlers. Already, he has put on decent programs with high-flyers (hardyz) and a big man (buh buh).

I think with the roster split (which may or may not be going away) RAW needed more big-time, heavyweight type stars. Just a ludacrisp (sic) opinion from a man on his way to Bolivian (sic).
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#6 Posted on 11.6.02 1700.13
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1701.52
I think something that should be focused on is that Lesnar is still learning. If they made more of a point that, even though Lesnar isn't dominating people 100% of the time, he is still young and learning how to do just that. So this would explain him losing once and a while. And after Lesnar has shown he can hold his own, they should let the reigns loose and give him a mega-push then.
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#7 Posted on 11.6.02 1835.18
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1844.57
I don't see how you can say Lesnar is getting his push before Booker or RVD, those two both headlined a PPV last year. Plus, Lesnar is a heel while those two are faces, and it looks like Booker is getting a big push by feuding with the NWO. As for RVD...I just don't think he can have a good match with the wide variety of wrestlers that WWE has now. His match on Raw (in my opinion) kind of proved that. Eddie's style was different than their previous encounters, and it made the match look kind of awkward. That might have been the result of a change in booking due to Stone Cold's absence though.

I think they should've held off for a couple months on the main event push for Lesnar though, it looks like he's still learning the ropes. An IC title feud with RVD could be a...learning experience for both of em.
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#8 Posted on 11.6.02 1939.36
Reposted on: 11.6.09 1945.55
I don't like the fact that Brock smiles so much. He's got that whole George W Bush "I know I'm going to go big places, even though I don't really deserve it" smug grin on his face, and that really pisses me off. I used to think it would be cool to have a such a big guy dominate the WWE ranks, but now he's looking more like a freak instead of a hero. And not even a bully like the Taker, but just a lame weirdo. He should be battling w/ Scott Steiner.

-socetew
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#9 Posted on 11.6.02 2047.36
Reposted on: 11.6.09 2051.58
The "humbling process" has only ever been used for guys coming from WCW, ECW, or other groups. That's why Angle, Lesnar, and others that have no "I was a HUGE star in the old company, so I had BETTER be a HUGE star here" attitude get away from it while Rob Van Dam, DDP, Booker T, and the like all have to "pay their dues".

It's also a way for McMahon to say "See? My guys BEAT WCW's guys! My guys are better!" as if it were real.


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#10 Posted on 11.6.02 2110.11
Reposted on: 11.6.09 2124.25

    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    The "humbling process" has only ever been used for guys coming from WCW, ECW, or other groups. That's why Angle, Lesnar, and others that have no "I was a HUGE star in the old company, so I had BETTER be a HUGE star here" attitude get away from it while Rob Van Dam, DDP, Booker T, and the like all have to "pay their dues".

    It's also a way for McMahon to say "See? My guys BEAT WCW's guys! My guys are better!" as if it were real.


    Tribal Prophet


'Tis true. Consider the Undertaker. He made his debut at Surviver Series 1990, and by Surviver Series 1991 he had a title shot against Hogan, which he won (with help from Ric Flair. they should bring this bit of history up on Raw [assuming Flair is still there next week]). Now, one year until first heavyweight title victory doesn't seem like much, but you have to remember how few title changes there were at the time. Undertaker was undefeated going into Survivor Series 1991 (can you see Lesnar not losing for a year?), and Hogan had held the title for 8 months. I believe that there were only 4 PPVs at the time, so that would be akin to Lesnar winning the title at the August PPV. That is incredibly fast.

And of course there are examples from WCW. The best I can think of is the Giant. I belive his first match was against Hogan for the Heavyweight title (which he won)? Now that's a monster push! Of course, the Big Show explained on Tough Enough that having such a huge push made him into a "raving egomaniac." So that is the problem. But it has been done before.
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#11 Posted on 11.6.02 2141.33
Reposted on: 11.6.09 2147.59
I'm not a Lesnar fan myself but in all reality I know he's going to get a major push (as Angle did but Angle DESERVED it).
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#12 Posted on 11.6.02 2144.46
Reposted on: 11.6.09 2149.22
I think it's always happened. It's part of the business. If there's a guy that a promoter thinks will be a big star, why not give him a chance and have him draw fans now instead of later? Especially if your promotion is doing poorly.

However, it is interesting that in a lot of these cases, guys like that end up being a problem--The Giant, Lex Luger, Goldberg, and often end up out of the business sooner rather than later.
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#13 Posted on 11.6.02 2149.24
Reposted on: 11.6.09 2149.25

    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    The "humbling process" has only ever been used for guys coming from WCW, ECW, or other groups. That's why Angle, Lesnar, and others that have no "I was a HUGE star in the old company, so I had BETTER be a HUGE star here" attitude get away from it while Rob Van Dam, DDP, Booker T, and the like all have to "pay their dues".

    It's also a way for McMahon to say "See? My guys BEAT WCW's guys! My guys are better!" as if it were real.


    Tribal Prophet



I cannot agree with you more.

Lesnar needs a slow build to counter his lack of mic skills. A slow build will also make him a bigger star in the long run as people won't see him as a flash in the pan or feel like he is being forced down our throats.

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#14 Posted on 12.6.02 0043.13
Reposted on: 12.6.09 0046.05
Mr. Boffo says, 'Tis true. Consider the Undertaker."

Undertaker was semi main eventing against Lex Luger in WCW the summer before he made his debut. He was also a part of the SkyScrapers replacing Vicious. In short he was a mid card guy, just like Booker, Jericho, Benoit etc. etc.

(edited by The Masked Hungarian on 12.6.02 0143)
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#15 Posted on 12.6.02 0112.38
Reposted on: 12.6.09 0112.44

    Originally posted by The Masked Hungarian
    Mr. Boffo says, 'Tis true. Consider the Undertaker."

    Undertaker was semi main eventing against Lex Luger in WCW the summer before he made his debut. He was also a part of the SkyScrapers replacing Vicious. In short he was a mid card guy, just like Booker, Jericho, Benoit etc. etc.

    (edited by The Masked Hungarian on 12.6.02 0143)



Y'know, I keep HOPING he'll bring back the Heart Punch from his WCW days.;-)
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#16 Posted on 12.6.02 0119.22
Reposted on: 12.6.09 0121.15

    Originally posted by The Masked Hungarian
    Mr. Boffo says, 'Tis true. Consider the Undertaker."

    Undertaker was semi main eventing against Lex Luger in WCW the summer before he made his debut. He was also a part of the SkyScrapers replacing Vicious. In short he was a mid card guy, just like Booker, Jericho, Benoit etc. etc.

    (edited by The Masked Hungarian on 12.6.02 0143)



but remember, the Undertaker was a completely new gimmick, no reference to his past. think of chris jericho coming in, but with a totally different "mcmahonized" name and gimmick. it would be different
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#17 Posted on 12.6.02 0600.10
Reposted on: 12.6.09 0607.35
Y'know something brothers...

I frankly don't see anything in Brock Lesnar that Kurt Angle doesn't have. OK, Lesnar's got the monster look down pat, no question. Looks like the freakin' Incredible Hulk (or Crash Holly with some growth hormone and a big-time steroid binge), but that's neither here nor there.

OK, Lesnar is a former NCAA Heavyweight Wrestling Champion. He can do belly-to-back suplexes and Lesnarize people straight to hell, great.

[Kurt Angle:] But he doesn't have these, does he? (holds up gold medals)... You know what these are? These are gold medals. You know where I won them? I won them at the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta, proving that I'm the best in the world!

So that's Angle 1, Lesnar 0.

Now, let's talk about what they've done to deserve a high spot in the WWF.

Lesnar: Trained in Ohio Valley Wrestling and did some WWF dark matches, then came into the WWF as the Next Big Thing.

Angle: Entered the WWF with the “undefeated” storyline, and his superb mic work set him apart from the rest. Lost at the Royal Rumble to Tazz, and later lost to The Rock. Won the European and Intercontinental Titles in short order. Lost them both in a great triple-threat match to Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho. Won the 2000 King of the Ring. Lost his first attempt to wrest the title away from The Rock, but later defeated The Rock at Survivor Series, and held the belt all the way until No Way Out. Had a thrilling feud with Chris Benoit. Later had the Feud of the Year in 2001 against Steve Austin, with Angle as a face for the first time in his WWF career.

I daresay that makes it Angle 2, Lesnar 0.

Let's talk about mic skills. Wait, let's not, let's just add another point to Angle's total by default-- even disregarding the fact that Angle's mic skills are unparalleled in the WWF.

Angle 3, Lesnar 0.

Anything else one might care to add?

Where am I going with this? If Kurt Angle is so clearly more deserving of a push than Lesnar...

Why are Angle's shorts being pulled down and his wig being torn off at regular intervals, while Lesnar just beat the shit out of Ric Flair?
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#18 Posted on 12.6.02 0702.29
Reposted on: 12.6.09 0702.55
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Y'know something brothers...[Kurt Angle:] But he doesn't have these, does he? (holds up gold medals)... You know what these are? These are gold medals. You know where I won them? I won them at the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta, proving that I'm the best in the world!

    So that's Angle 1, Lesnar 0.


    Yup..1-0 Kurt.


    Now, let's talk about what they've done to deserve a high spot in the WWF.

    Lesnar: Trained in Ohio Valley Wrestling and did some WWF dark matches, then came into the WWF as the Next Big Thing.

    Angle: Entered the WWF with the “undefeated” storyline.....

    I daresay that makes it Angle 2, Lesnar 0.


    Denied!
    You contradict yourself..what they have done to deserve a spot in the WWF...
    Kurt was just as green (except for the olympic background) as Lesnar when he came in. Both came in with an (apparently) thought out angle. Brock: NBT, Kurt:Heel crybaby with great skills.



    Let's talk about mic skills. Wait, let's not, let's just add another point to Angle's total by default-- even disregarding the fact that Angle's mic skills are unparalleled in the WWF.

    Angle 3, Lesnar 0.


    2-0 in my game. Angle IS unparalleled. No comparison.
    Brock however was given Heyman as a mouthpiece..which is always better than to have him fuck around on his own..
    They were smart enough to realize this..
    So it's a point but it went in off the post.



    Anything else one might care to add?

    Where am I going with this? If Kurt Angle is so clearly more deserving of a push than Lesnar...

    Why are Angle's shorts being pulled down and his wig being torn off at regular intervals, while Lesnar just beat the shit out of Ric Flair?



Yes, I have something to add...where ARE you going?
After about 2-3 months (I am not keeping track, doesn't matter) Lesnar hasn't had a high profile match yet.
Kurt already was about to win the EuroContinental Titles I believe.
There is NO indication Lesnar is going to be pushed for the WWE title soon. He MIGHT go all the way in KotR but we all know what that does for your carreer.

Kurt knows exactly what he is supposed to do these days.
Bring in the fun. It's his niche and he is fucking good at it. The evil yet hilarious heel. Nothing wrong with that..
He admits he likes to screw with the crowd, like with the baldness stuff..
I doubt if he feels what you seem to be feeling; being pushed down the card (lemme guess...nahhh I won't go there)

And can anyone really really tell me what is wrong with pushing a monster rookie up the card rapidly?
Although I doubt if hitting Flair is much of a push in itself? Sure, I believe we will see more of Lesnar and maybe even he will be KotR..so what?
It will give us fresh faces to look at..

And finally (the soapbox is about to break)..
Again I recall a month ago (after hardyz vs brock 3 and stasiak vs brock 2) people here demanded he had to get better feuds soon. So now he got (and passed) Buhbuh..and now maybe RVD? Good..different feuds..be happy for all of em..

(edited by dMp on 12.6.02 1404)
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#19 Posted on 12.6.02 1311.08
Reposted on: 12.6.09 1329.06
Lesnar's push will stall if they keep using that interview camera angle from 3/4 behind him (as Heyman talks into the mike). From that angle Lesnar can be seen to have huge pointy man-boobs (I'm talking Steffy-size).

Completely destroyed the man-beast image for me.
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#20 Posted on 14.6.02 0520.58
Reposted on: 14.6.09 0522.52
Isn't “he only got over because of his size” the same argument people have used against guys like... Sid Vicious? Granted, Lesnar has more wrestling ability than Sid. But he's not yet been allowed to really demonstrate any technical ability (save one or two belly-to-back suplexes), so he might as well not have them if he can't use them.

He hasn't been given any mic time, so one can only wonder how awful his mic skills probably are...

When I asked the question, “What have they done to deserve a top spot in the WWF?”, what I meant was, “What have they done to deserve a top spot in today's WWF?” Dudes, if it wasn't for Kurt Angle, we all probably would have stopped watching when Triple H and The Rock both left. Angle's feud, as a face, with a heel Steve Austin was one of the most unique angles the WWF has done in some time. Too bad Angle was never allowed to get a clean win over the bald bastard.

Back to Brock. Let's talk about KotR. In order for Brock to win KotR (and every indication I've gotten so far is that he will do that), he will have to defeat some high-profile opponents. Booker T is next for Lesnar, and Rob Van Dam is also in the tournament. Does anybody here really see the WWF allowing Booker T a win over the “Next Big Thing”? I sincerely doubt it-- and if he does win, he sure as hell won't win cleanly. Bet on it.

Anyway... the King of the Ring seems like it will be the thing that springboards Lesnar into the main event. And having Lesnar main-eventing, while Chris Jericho cheats to beat Mark Henry and Kurt Angle gets repeatedly embarrassed by everybody, is simply unacceptable to me. Yeah, introduce new faces, fine and dandy, but don't screw the guys who've actually... you know... made money for the organization.
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