Originally posted by BoromirMarkI was ashamed to be a wrestling fan that night. My disgust at those fans almost clouded the main event.
Originally posted by LizThose chants were tacky and out of line; and I, for one, think Brock showed a lot of grace by going forward with the match and not giving the crowd the finger followed by walking out with nary a look back.
Oh, come on. All this feigned indignation is getting a little tiresome. I've said that the chants weren't exactly accurate, but don't act like you guys are gonna quit watching wrestling because Brock got his feelings hurt. Christ, he's not a baby, he'll be okay.
Wrestling fans are marks. Stupid, ungrateful marks. And I'll bet most wrestlers would say the same thing. They're the ones who are chosing to break their backs, to entertain a bunch of dumb rubes like us. Brock did, too.
Chants are innocuous and people love 'em. Katie Vick makes me ashamed to be a wrestling fan. That idiot in Canada who almost pushed Eddie off a ladder made me ashamed to be a wrestling fan. Nathan Jones and Kevin Nash making hundreds of thousands of dollars last year made me ashamed to be a wrestling fan. Not this.
Originally posted by LizAgreed. Those chants were tacky and out of line; and I, for one, think Brock showed a lot of grace by going forward with the match and not giving the crowd the finger followed by walking out with nary a look back.
Well, he DID give everyone the finger after the match. I'm sure some would say that was intentional, but it certainly didn't look that way. I would also direct people to his earlier moment early in the match where he screamed out "What the @#*$ do you want from me?" That not only didn't make sense to be screaming at Goldberg (there was nothing in the feud that made it appear Goldberg wanted anything more than revenge for Brock's earlier runins that ruin his matches), but if you look at the camera angles, you can see that Brock wasn't even looking at Goldberg when he said this (Goldberg jumped in front of Brocks a split-second after Brock screamed).
I'll give him points for working the match instead of just walking out (which he looked to be ready to do at one point), but I can't give him anything for not even trying to work the chants into the match (and perhaps relieving some of the bad heat there) or for giving anything to the match. Heck, I'm no fan of Goldberg and I thought Goldberg handled it a billion times better and turned out to be a true professional about it. At least he didn't freak out like Brock did.
Although I have to admit, I love the look Goldberg gives Austin at one point early in the match that read as, "Do you believe this Sh*t?"
Originally posted by asteroidboyOh, come on. All this feigned indignation is getting a little tiresome. I've said that the chants weren't exactly accurate, but don't act like you guys are gonna quit watching wrestling because Brock got his feelings hurt. Christ, he's not a baby, he'll be okay.
First, show me where I said I was going to do anything remotely like "quit watching wrestling," because I've read and reread my comment and can't find that line.
Secondly, I never said my disgust was for poor Brock's feelings. My disgust was for just one more thing I consider stupid and annoying. That list is long and includes Saran wrap and cheap batteries. What's it to you?
Third, my "indignation" wasn't "feigned." While watching WMXX, my comment to my wife during the chants was "What a bunch of fucking jackasses." She concurred. Yay for me.
Despite the disgusting quality of this match, I absolutely loved it. Not anything in perticular, not the quality, not the two participants, not the idea of clashing of the titans, but the atmosphere of "What The F--- is Going ON!?". MSG snapping, Goldberg looking clueless, Austin wondering how he could save it, Brock being thoroughly pissed off and embarassed... the whole thing was an absolute classic... I loved it.
Originally posted by asteroidboyOh, come on. All this feigned indignation is getting a little tiresome. I've said that the chants weren't exactly accurate, but don't act like you guys are gonna quit watching wrestling because Brock got his feelings hurt. Christ, he's not a baby, he'll be okay.
First, show me where I said I was going to do anything remotely like "quit watching wrestling," because I've read and reread my comment and can't find that line.
Secondly, I never said my disgust was for poor Brock's feelings. My disgust was for just one more thing I consider stupid and annoying. That list is long and includes Saran wrap and cheap batteries. What's it to you?
Third, my "indignation" wasn't "feigned." While watching WMXX, my comment to my wife during the chants was "What a bunch of fucking jackasses." She concurred. Yay for me.
1. As the kids say, "my bad."
2. Because of the crowd, I thought Brock/Goldberg easily became the most interesting match of the night. Everyone at my house was instantly glued to the TV, trying to catch every word, wondering what they would do with the match, if they would even continue it. The crowd had SUCH a disorienting effect on the wrestlers, it was like they had just come out of the Vomit Comet at the circus and were looking for trash cans to puke in. We thought Austin was gonna have to start calling audibles, to get them back on track.
3. Woo.
(edited by asteroidboy on 21.3.04 2349) -- Asteroid Boy
Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03
"In addition, my tickets weren’t really what you’d expect from the webmaster of the internet’s largest independent pro-wrestling website." - Widro
"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex "Was he no-selling?" - Me
Originally posted by MonteDespite the disgusting quality of this match, I absolutely loved it. Not anything in perticular, not the quality, not the two participants, not the idea of clashing of the titans, but the atmosphere of "What The F--- is Going ON!?". MSG snapping, Goldberg looking clueless, Austin wondering how he could save it, Brock being thoroughly pissed off and embarassed... the whole thing was an absolute classic... I loved it.
I know what you mean. It was like witnessing an accident. Before you wonder if anyone was hurt, you have the moment where you turn to your friend and say, "Whoa-hoa-hoa-hoa! Did you fucking SEE THAT????!!!" I watched that whole match with my mouth agape. There was some nervous laughter. There was some looking to other faces in the room for confirmation that we were all watching the same thing. That it was a train wreck. That we had never, EVER, seen anything that godawful in all our years watching wrestling.
I don't mind at all that the crowd was hard on Brock. Good for them, I say. The thing is, in wrestling, the crowd is SUPPOSED to heckel the heel. But the heel is supposed to turn to the crowd and yell, "Ahhh shaddup!" not cry, "What the &%$%$ do you want from me?" If Brock couldn't handle the heat, that's his problem. Heels get the heat. That's one of the rules.
Granted, this heat wasn't directed at the "storyline" but on Brock "in real life". Well, so what? They didn't appreciate the way he handled his business, they knew it was going to send ripples through the entire company already facing a talent crisis, they resented his selfish behaviour, and they let him know loud and clear how they felt about it.
What were they supposed to do, buy him a cake?
So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
Anyway, Brock is a selfish young man, like most people his age, so I don't fault him for doing what he wants to do. It's his life, more power to him, etc. I know I certainly couldn't handle his job or work schedule, so I'm not judging him on his inability to perform or him wanting out of the business. I couldn't care less about Goldberg.
That being said, I think it was perfectly legitimate for the crowd to express their displeasure with the match. Here you had a Wrestlemania match they had been building to for 3 months between a guy they were pretty certain was leaving after his contract was up and another who was vocal about his displeasure with the company. If anything, I thought the fans were pissed that these two men were given most of the spotlight, attention, and push leading up WM XX only so they could both leave immediately thereafter. Like it or not, that sends off a vibe of betrayal for hardcore fans who followed the storyline, paid for the PPVs, and bought tickets to the events only so they could be treated to a match that was meaningless the second it ended.
If anything else, I thought the telling sign here was how nearly the entire arena knew Goldberg and Brock were on the outs. Smart marks still aren't a large portion of the audience you say?
This was a classic match for all the wrong reasons i never watched a match like that. It was like car crash television slow and painful to watch but you can't take your eyes off it.
As for Brock weell, i say thank you, you busted your ass for this company and this is the thanks you get in return. Good luck with your football career.
P.S If you ever do come back, you will be the best heel ever
Crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside. ARMADILLOS
Why is the "You sold out" chant the one chant that gets taken seriously? Are we suppose to believe when the crowd chants "Slut" at Trish Stratus, they actually all believe that she's a slut? Or when pretty much any main eventer has a run as a heel, and the chants of "Asshole!" start, that the fans really all think that person is an asshole?
I think chants are just the way for fans to get involve, and that it's mostly a way for the fans to "work" the wrestlers, much like the wrestlers "work" the fans. Sure, this had some basis on a real event, but it's mostly just a carryover of a chant they used to do in ECW when somebody was leaving (at least, that's where I assumed it started). And I'm sure some of the fans were chanting it, and had no idea why, they were just following the others lead. But if it was getting some reaction from the wrestler, they are guaranteed to keep doing it (which is why good heel wrestlers will react to chants as if it is getting under his skin). Brock shouldn't have taken seriously (or better yet, played along since he was the heel. Of course, I suppose it's possible that is what he was doing in the first place), and I don't think anyone else should either.
(edited by ges7184 on 22.3.04 1720) Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
Personally I find "You f'ed up" chants to be alot more obnoxious. What do you want a standing headlock for 10-minutes. If someone with a good trackrecord slips in a match it's very self-indulging. But I guess this is another story for another time.
As for this article, agree or disagree (and for me personally I feel both ways about this) it is certainly an interesting take on the situation.
Wrestling fans no doubt absolutely a fickle bunch, unappreciative with short term memories. That's why it's so easy to make heel turns to wrestling fans. Someone could be the perfect babyface for years who fans absolutely adore and one course of action can turn that wrestler hated, disrespected and recent history forgotten. Sure this is a character turn as the Brock thing is a lot more "real" but it still shows somewhat the mentality of wrestling fans who are able to turn on a dime... As for Brock, I don't think the "Sold Out" chants have anything to do with monetary. I think the fans felt he sold out on their favorite past time. I think they felt he sold out to them as they put an investment on him from buying his merchandise or putting an interest in his character.
Saying that Brock Lesner is the most amazing big man I've ever seen in wrestling. The only big man I can remember being even comparable was maybe Vader in WCW. He was spectacular, he bumped as no big man has any right to bump. His work was fabulous. On the flip side he did get a push that 95% would with they got half of it, but to his credit he delivered IMO.
It's a tough situation, if he was personally miserable he should leave like Nathan Jones did, the difference is Jones left it really didn't effect anyone maybe with the exception of Matt Morgan. Lesner leaving has a ripple effect all through the company not just his direct angles he was going to be in but being a top 3 star on SD it effects that show and if the reports were true it was the final straw for the Re-draft which does effect the lives of the entire WWE roster. I heard workers were not pleased by his decision & they have the right to be angry. The situation could be handled better especially on Brock's end, he should have made his intentions clearer and not leave his co-workers holding the bag.
As for Brock vs. Goldberg, I think the whole thing added a memorable feel to wrestlemania. There are 3 very unique things I will remember from Wrestlemania. The Emotion of Benoit & Eddie embracing, The humor of Ric Flair's Nature Elbow, and the surrealness of Brock vs. Goldberg as the fans became the story... I've never seen anything like that, I was shocked. No one cared about the story building up to this match. No one cared about the on screen characters of the two. It's thousands of fans lashing out to someone they feel betrayed them (rightfully or wrongfully) and yes completely forgetting his past couple of years of service to the company but like I said early on in this post, it's not unusual for wrestling fans choose to forget.
smark/net attack wienerville advisory stays at BLUE alert - Guarded (With Benoit & Eddie being World & WWE champions you'd expect the alert to be Green but couldn't do it due to Trish heel turn & brands re-draft)- 3/16
Honors for Smartest thing ever written, 5th Horseman "When Victoria, Trish, Molly, and Lilian were in the ring.. I commented to my friends that all of the 4 ladies in the ring were hotter than the all 4 that are fighting over who is the hottest in the WWE"
Bah. Brock Lesnar has it better than you, he has it better than me, and has it better than probably anyone reading this board, unless we've got a few millionaires on this board that I don't know about.
And he wanted to leave WWE 'cuz of the travel... because he resented going to South Africa to beat Hardcore Holly in a match. Shit, pay me what Brock Lesnar's getting paid and I'll fuckin' job to Hardcore Holly in South Africa.
Brock Lesnar's got more money already in his young life than most of us will ever see. He's already a three-time WWE Champion (and the last Undisputed Champion), and beat the freakin' Rock for his first WWE Title-- and first title ever in the promotion.
He's a former King of the Ring winner, former Royal Rumble winner, and for the last two years he has been the man on SmackDown. He won the WWE Championship in the main event of WrestleMania XIX. I can't think of very much stuff that's left to accomplish in WWE that he hasn't already accomplished. (Sure, he could win the U.S. or Intercontinental Title, but both of those would be several steps backward for him). And he's what, 23, 24 years old?
So where the hell does he get off bitchin' about anything, I think was the point of all the fan heckling at WrestleMania. And I'm inclined to agree.
“Chris Benoit, finally, is the Heavyweight Champion of this world!” --Jim Ross, WrestleMania XX
Wiener of the Day Title History:
Won the title on 5/27/02 from Lunacy in a hardcore match; lost the belt the following day to wheresitat42 via offbeat shenanigans
Regained the title on 7/3/02 by pinning SKLOKAZOID in a triple-threat match; lost the belt the next day to NickBockwinkelFan via heel chicanery
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