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The W - Video Games - Xbox One revealed (Page 2)
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.46
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm passing as well. I think we're all old, though.


Ah, true. But with the cost of the system, the cost of Xbox Live, the cost of cable/Internet, and the cost of games, plus the cost of more controllers, you have to be old to be able to afford Xbox One.



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thecubsfan
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.32
I don't think it's even an age thing; maybe a 16 or 23 year old with disposable income would correct me, but I think XBox (and PS4 and Wii U) have just not made a strong enough case that you need to spend a lot of money to get a new box.

These sort of developer previews probably helped in managing expectations and getting people who work on the games and other stuff excited for this next generation. If I'm a game developer, I'm thrilled to move away from a system which was originally designed and engineered eight years ago - before the first iPhone was released - to something cutting edge. They just haven't translated that cutting edge technology into game demos that seem equally a big leap forward. They have E3 to make that cases.



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KJames199
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.52
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I think XBox (and PS4 and Wii U) have just not made a strong enough case that you need to spend a lot of money to get a new box.
I think the Wii U makes the strongest case because

1. I like Nintendo games, but
2. the Wii doesn't output in HD.

Even if New Super Mario Bros. U is the same as the Wii version that came before it, it will be in sexy shiny HD and thus is worth the upgrade. Same with Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros., Zelda, whatever else.

As for the other systems, I'm sure the One and the PS4 will look better than the 360 and PS3, but the upgrade isn't going to be nearly so noticeable, and I don't play that many AAA full-price games anyway.
Stefonics
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.84
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by thecubsfan
      I think XBox (and PS4 and Wii U) have just not made a strong enough case that you need to spend a lot of money to get a new box.
    I think the Wii U makes the strongest case because

    1. I like Nintendo games, but
    2. the Wii doesn't output in HD.

    Even if New Super Mario Bros. U is the same as the Wii version that came before it, it will be in sexy shiny HD and thus is worth the upgrade. Same with Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros., Zelda, whatever else.

    As for the other systems, I'm sure the One and the PS4 will look better than the 360 and PS3, but the upgrade isn't going to be nearly so noticeable, and I don't play that many AAA full-price games anyway.



It does make the HD case, but I hate the controller. Maybe I will learn to love it in time, but for now, it's just not that great of an idea (for me). I have my 480p plug for the wii and it's doing just fine right now. I know that sounds like the old dvd-vs-bluray argument. More on that argument, I already have those games and having them in HD isn't enough to justify spending money on the same thing again (although I did that with a lot of dvds).

I'm waiting until the Sony full reveal to judge. And waiting until all three are out to really judge. As of now, I stand firmly in Sony's camp; they monkeyed around with less and I love the PS3. But who knows; I might end up buying a wiiU when it gets a significant price drop and then I'll spend the money on the same games all over again, making this post irrelevant.
Quezzy
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Personally, I'm not all that worked up about not seeing games. Like KJ said, the graphics aren't going to be THAT much better. Whether games of this generation will be better or worse will depend on gameplay and watching pretty trailers won't be any proof of that.

For now I'm happy with playing games on Steam on my PC. I might buy a Xbox One or PS4 three or four years down the road when there is a large catalog of games that I've heard great things about. And also, it will be cheaper.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
BigDaddyLoco
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm passing as well. I think we're all old, though.


I am totally intimidated by what I have been reading about these systems. I like to play games, but I feel like these new systems are asking a lot. I am probably not even renewing my Live account this year, because I really don't online game. I like nice looking games that you can just throw in and play and learn on the fly. I like being able to buy a used game for $20, because I don't feel obligated to play.

I am really not the customer XBox cares about, and now that I think about it most people I know my age play less than me or don't play video games at all and I maybe play 3 days out of the week in the winter and less the rest of the year.

This post turned out different than I thought. I am probably on my last video game system. That is sort of depressing to think about.

EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
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#27 Posted on
We're seeing a stratification of the market, which could mean its doom.

We've got Microsoft and Sony at the high end battling it out for living room dominance. The XBox One is finally what Microsoft envisioned for the first XBox all those years ago. The One Device To Rule Them All for which ALL of your entertainment goes through. The fact that Kinect is always watching and listening is just icing on the cake for Neilson and any other groups concerned about what happens in your living room.

Sony got what they wanted out of the PS3 - Blu-ray defeated HD-DVD. With no major media format war looming, they can coast for the PS4 and just focus on making a great gaming console, which developer feedback generally indicates they did. Sony may still have a few cards to play regarding the used games market, but unlike MS they were able to avoid tripping over their own feet at their conference, so everyone is generally happy with Sony right now. They are in a better position with less pressure, but E3 will still be big for them.

Nintendo doesn't care about dominating the living room. They're just happy to be there. The Wii U has been struggling but the problems they are running into is that third party support has been weak (EA can't make up their mind if they're aren't supporting the device (kotaku.com) or they are (polygon.com)) and everyone is still waiting on Pikmin 3. We all know that the Mario and Zelda games are coming, just not when. Smartglass and the Vita cross-functionality have managed to steal all the benefits of the Wii U's tablet, so Nintendo really has nothing to hang their hat on with this console. The Wii U is cheaper and Nintendo should be able to eke out a living fighting for the low ground, but...

The Ouya launches in just under a month and brings some simpler games to your tv for a $99 price point. If they can steal the cheap & fun-for-the-kiddies console spot from Nintendo, the Wii U might find itself boxed out this console cycle. (Nintendo needs to be especially vigilant that no Mario ports wind up on the Ouya, although good luck with that...) The danger for the Ouya is that piracy will be rampant enough that developers won't make any money putting games on the console, but if that's the case, the Ouya itself should have enough of a launch base they'll be fine. Plus, all that kickstarter money helps.

The Piston is coming soon too, but the hype for that seems to have dried up with Valve's association with Xi3. The price tag is also ludicrous. We're still waiting on an official Steam Box which could be game changing but we'll have to see.

Overall, this is like an election and we just finished the Iowa caucuses. Sony won the straw poll, but Super Tuesday (E3) is still ahead and can change everything. It all comes down to how people vote (with their wallets) in November.



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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
At least Microsoft showed what the console looks like. I'm still anxious to see the form factor of the PS4.

I hate the idea of disallowing people to purchase used games, but I gotta wonder how that would affect Redbox customers.



...on a roll!
Zeruel
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.52
    Originally posted by Oliver


    I hate the idea of disallowing people to purchase used games, but I gotta wonder how that would affect Redbox customers.


Gamefly and Gamestop too. Gamestop's stock took a tumble this week on the XB announcement.



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Oliver
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
    Originally posted by Zeruel
      Originally posted by Oliver


      I hate the idea of disallowing people to purchase used games, but I gotta wonder how that would affect Redbox customers.


    Gamefly and Gamestop too. Gamestop's stock took a tumble this week on the XB announcement.
I was thinking more along the line of rental games - unless there's going to be a specific version of the game for that market.



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EddieBurkett
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#31 Posted on
Rentals can still work. Gamefly or Redbox just need an Xbox Live account for each game. When you have the disc, you install it under the associated rental account. If anything, this hurts the 'rent-to-buy' business model, because you can send the disc back to Gamefly but still pay MS to unlock the install under your account.



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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.22
As soon as I saw no backwards capability, I was gutted. Looks like I will stick with the 360 just a little longer.



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lotjx
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    I'm passing as well. I think we're all old, though.

    As soon as I saw no backwards capability, I was gutted. Looks like I will stick with the 360 just a little longer.




Agreed. Yet, the wife and I were talking about it being our Christmas gift to ourselves, now well more Christmas gifts for me. So, I win sort of. The no 360 games on it is the final straw. I don't need another giant system taking up space in my entertainment center.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.75
Who knows if this is legit, but the reasoning is certainly interesting to read. Apparently this guy is inside MS and was on /b the other night. Take that how you will, but it's worth reading either way.

    Originally posted by Inside MS part 1
    The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for shit value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.

    The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)

    It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm shit as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted shit.

    Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.

    Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam


    Originally posted by Inside MS part 2
    Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCK US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.

    Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop fucks them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone bitches at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.

    The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF FUCKING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road

    Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years

    Living room transformation. We want to own the living room. Every living room TV with an XBox on input one. It's the thing that gives the signal to your TV, everything is secondary. The future, where games, TV, internet telephony, all that shit happens magically on some huge ass screen with hand / voice gestures... That's our goal.


    Originally posted by Inside MS part 1
    Google TV + PS4 + Minority report level gestures, that combined with a sick second screen experience (which is really hot for TV, I know I know.. tv tv tv tv tv... but it's fucking sick when you have it). Games will be the same, there are more exclusives to MS then PS atm, and Kinect 2 makes Kinect 1 look like a childs toy.

    By default it's on, listening for "Xbox On". You can turn it off tho, and turn the console like OFF off. OFF off is required for Germany / other countries that require it (no vampire appliances) [...] It has to be plugged in for the console to post. You can turn off everything it does from the settings. Think of it like airplane mode for the iPhone. You can't just unplug the cellular radio, but you can turn it off.

    Instead of 10mins, is 24hrs for your console, and 1 or 2 at a friends house. Really the majority of people have a speck of internet at least once a day. And if you don't. Don't buy an Xbox 1. Just like if you didn't have a broadband connection don't get Live, and if you don't have an HDTV the 360 isn't that great for you either. New tech, new req. This allows us to do cool shit when we can assume things like you have a kinect, you have internet, etc.

    Current plan is basically you're fucked after 24 hours. Yeah... I know. Kind of sucks. I believe they will probably revist the time period and / or find a diff way to "call in" to ensure you haven't sold your license to gamestop or something... but there is no plan YET. I'm hoping the change it, but I don't work on that so I don't have much influence there /sigh

    If the power goes out you ain't playing shit. I'm assuming you mean the internet goes out but you have power for TV and Xbox. Yes, You're fucked for single player games. Again, that's the PoR (Plan of record), but I expect it to change after the e3 clusterfuck

    What fee? There is no fee to play your games at your friends house. Never has, never will. Even x360 digital downloads could do that.



    Originally posted by Inside MS part 4
    The cloud capabilities is the shit they like the most. We basically made a huge cloud compute shit and made it free. What people are doing with it is kind of cool. THe original intention was to get all the Multiplayer servers not requiring 3rd party costs (Like EA shutting down game servers to cut costs), as well as taking all the games that servers hosted by the clients (Halo, etc), and have all that compute done in the cloud allowing more CPU cycles for gameplay. That will really expand what developers can do. Anything that doesn't need per frame calculation and can handle 100ms delays can be shifted to the cloud. That's huge.

    SmartGlass + IE is going to be pretty freaking sweet. 1 finger cursor, 2 finger direct manip. Basically if you think of a laptop trackpad where your phone/ slate is the trackpad and the monitor is your TV... it's that. The tech is there, just needs to be applied. There is some really cool shit going on with Petra + controllers that pairs people with controllers. So if person with controller two trades controlers with controller 1, their profiles magically switch. It's sick. What does this matter? Now if you lean left/right it knows which person is leaning, even if 4 people are all int he same room. It's awesome.

    New service using Azure for cloud compute. Allows developers to not use clients for hosting multiplayer servers, or other tasks that do not require per frame calcuations. It's pretty sweet.

    >Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4.


This was all from the Microsoft engineer that was on /b/ last night.

    Originally posted by Inside MS part 5
    It's not worth my time to prove it, or risk my Job. I work in Studio A, 40th ave in Redmond, Wa. The thai place in the studio cafeteria has double punch wednesdays. Go ahead and call them and verify if you want.


did some reformatting with the quote tags to make it more readable - thecubsfan

(edited by thecubsfan on 14.6.13 2321)
Tribal Prophet
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Since: 9.1.02
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.81
I'm all for some guy saying "shit" in every other sentence to sound hip and cool, but when you actually look at what he's saying, he's full of shit.

He talks about how the DRM move was done as a way for them to lower the price of games from 59.99 to 39.99 or something. I don't believe for a second "charging a bunch less for games" was suggested by anyone at MS who wasn't immediately fired.

There's also the attitude of "if you don't like what we're offering, it means you just don't 'get it'" when it comes to serious concerns about the Xbone. The statement that the PS4 viral team worked their magic over people and everything hive-minded is recockulous.
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.32
Parts I found interesting!


    If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow.


Having cheaper games would be awesome, but when they can get already get away with pricing the games at $60, it's hard to believe they'd give that up. It would be an outstanding PR move to announce they're doing that off the bat - "launch titles will be $49.99, do the math" - but they need to actually say that, not have it be step 4 on some hopeful road map.

Also, I'd think downloading a game would be cheaper than the pressing DVDs, a price discount could already be passed there and it hasn't been by anyone. I do agree with the more general point that everything is going to download.


    Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back


Finding a missing game is always annoying. Not being able to plan a game because something is wrong with the network will probably beat that. I hope nothing like Sony's multiple long PSN outage happens to either system, and I also suspect people are going to find out their internet speeds are not as good as they thought they were. (Also something something bandwidth caps, though I tend to think that's not as big an issue as people make it out to be.)

XBox is ahead of the game with the streaming though. Sony buying a company just to do it, and still only vaguely saying "we'll have in 2014" seems questionable and they didn't even suggest the same game sharing abilities as XBox is promising. This is a point in XBox's favor that's not really going to be noticed until next year.


    We want to own the living room. Every living room TV with an XBox on input one.


This is a fantastic goal, but they are selling a $500 device which requires an additional monthly subscription to do the Living Room features. They are competing with $50 & $100 devices that do a lot of the same things, and those living room TVs now bake in many of the same things. XBOX is going to do more with those things and make it easier to do those things than a Roku or one of the other dozens of devices fighting for that market, but they're going to be doing it a very high premium. When you're pricing a device at $500 (or $400 or $200), you're only selling to the enthusiasts. If Microsoft's dream is to be Input One, that's a great dream, but I hope they don't expect it to be reality.

2017, 2018, when XBox One is knocked down to a more reasonable price to casual people, maybe this is a more realistic possibility. But who knows what else will be out there by then. Tech turns over too fast.


    THe original intention was to get all the Multiplayer servers not requiring 3rd party costs (Like EA shutting down game servers to cut costs), as well as taking all the games that servers hosted by the clients (Halo, etc), and have all that compute done in the cloud allowing more CPU cycles for gameplay.


Here, my confusion is - if the reason EA shutting down servers was to cut costs, isn't Microsoft also going to want to cut costs at some point? Maybe the idea is they can apply the XBox Live money to servers and keep buying more (where EA wasn't getting that constant revenue.)


    SmartGlass + IE is going to be pretty freaking sweet. 1 finger cursor, 2 finger direct manip. Basically if you think of a laptop trackpad where your phone/ slate is the trackpad and the monitor is your TV... it's that.


This would be great if anyone bought a Microsoft phone or slate.

I hope they put make Android and iOS apps too, but it doesn't seem like it's been their strategy so far. And Microsoft phones are good stuff, I have family who have them and they work great. The market share is not so great.


    So if person with controller two trades controlers with controller 1, their profiles magically switch


This really cool engineering stuff that has no practical purpose. If I'm trading controllers with you, it's because one of us has no idea what they're doing and we need to get past something, not that I need or want my profiles traded. I'm not sure the sequence of events which would lead to me exchanging a controller and actually wanting my profile to switch, and I wonder why they bothered to do this besides just showing off what the cameras can do.

A lot of the Kinetic stuff they've promoted feels the same way. It's a great scientific achievement but they haven't made the case of why it's going to enhance my experience. I do know I'm only about 2 cameras away from being able to replicate an (over refered to) Tom Cruise movie when selecting which movie I'd like to watch, but is that really going to save me more than 15 seconds?

I'm going to probably really enjoy it when I can wave my hand and move a window out of the way, but it feels like people trying to bring to life their favorite sci fi designs more than just trying to figure out what's actually useful and what'll actually be used.

When game designers generally can't seem to figure out a use for a camera besides "achievement: take a picture of yourself", or by making gameplay more complicated to only work in the technology (90% of how the SixAxis motion control was applied on PS3), it's hard to buy it as a selling point.



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Since: 2.2.04
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.75
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    I'm all for some guy saying "shit" in every other sentence to sound hip and cool, but when you actually look at what he's saying, he's full of shit.

    He talks about how the DRM move was done as a way for them to lower the price of games from 59.99 to 39.99 or something. I don't believe for a second "charging a bunch less for games" was suggested by anyone at MS who wasn't immediately fired.

    There's also the attitude of "if you don't like what we're offering, it means you just don't 'get it'" when it comes to serious concerns about the Xbone. The statement that the PS4 viral team worked their magic over people and everything hive-minded is recockulous.


I don't buy what he's selling 100% either, just found some of the points interesting. We all know we won't see prices decrease at the start, but the logic behind why they could potentially sell games for less makes sense at least. Couple that with the things I've read suggesting they will allow game license transfer from person to person with maybe a one time limit and I could see Craigslist becoming a much cheaper version of GameStop for "used" games.

It's all speculation of course. But the comparison to Steam holds value to me. If it ends up being like that, where yes we pay top dollar for a new game but we get crazy discounts as time goes by, and can install on any system we login to, well that's worthwhile.

But I don't think his attitude was you don't get it. He stated if you just want games, get a PS4. And that they thought Sony made a good dig with their sharing ad. I got the feeling this was mostly regarding the backlash over used games, which I tend to agree has been rage without thought.
Chumpstain
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Since: 21.1.02
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.24
In arguments about the new consoles elsewhere, I made the comment that Microsoft was trying/hoping to emulate Steam long before reading this. If you take the time to look, they're already starting to do it.

A couple of months ago for the Steam Spring Sale, they had slashed prices on some comparatively recent games, like Borderlands 2 at $40 (33% off) and Tomb Raider at $30 (50% off). Lo and behold, as we can find if we scroll back through this very forum, on XBL around that time there were similar sales where both games were available on demand for the same prices. I remember being surprised at seeing that, and deducing that Microsoft wanted to adopt a Steam-style system for game sales. Everything that the Xbox One has promised/threatened, clumsy though it might be, does point in that direction.

New games are still going to be $60, but new games on Steam are full price too, either $50 or $60, with some discretion on behalf of the publisher (I think Ubisoft puts out $50 games on the PC, but sometimes later than their console releases). But a few months after a game's release, we might start seeing these sales. 33% off, 50% off. Eventually 75% off. Where normally it would be Gamestop marking these games down some time after their release once they notice sales slowing, both new and used, now the ball's in the court of the publisher and Microsoft on when the sales will happen, and they'll be collecting the profit from those sales rather than it going to a middleman. It's no surprise that they want to collect the profit, but there are benefits there for the consumer as well. We all love Steam sales, right?

There's plenty of stuff about the Xbox One to be annoyed with, don't get me wrong. But yes, I do believe that they're aiming for a Steam model. That brings with it a used game clampdown, but also more discounts as time passes and the physical disc becoming unneeded beyond the initial point of purchase. I admit that I'm kind of spoiled with PC gaming by not needing to flip through a collection of DVD cases to find the game I want to play, instead just selecting it from a list on Steam. If Microsoft can pull everything together and overcome this PR snafu, it might be nice to be able to do the same thing with my next-gen console.
lotjx
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
My problem with this entire argument for Xbox One, is that if they want to own the living room, they need to be a cable company and drop their price by say $300. My blu Ray has Netflix, Youtube and Hulu Plus. All the shit that someone would say is better than cable, Xbox has. My Blu Ray was about $100 and a Christmas gift. I have no desire to buy Google glass, I have an Android and now as poor bastard that has Windows 8 on his new laptop, I am not seeing where X-Box is doing anything to help people who are both their consumer and non-consumer of Microsoft.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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Kolbasz








Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 40 days
Last activity: 40 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.28
As much as I hate to say it I think I will be passing on the Xbox One as well- at least until a price drop in a year or two. I have both a 360 and PS3 but only use the PS3 as a Blu Ray player and for PS exclusives as most of my friends are on Xbox Live. Also, I just never really cared for the layout of the PS3 with the cross media bar and prefer achievments over trophies.

However, at this point I can't see paying a hundred bucks more because of all this TV functionality when I don't even have cable anyway. I am not too concerned, at least for myself, with the daily online checks and what not as I am always online anyway. The used game thing is kind of a letdown, but most of the time I am just patient and wait for games to drop down to $30-$40 anyway.

I will miss some of the Microsoft exclusives but with stuff like Infamous Second Son I think I will manage. I wanted to want a One, but I am just not feeling it yet.

Now if only I could translate my hard earned achievments into trophies if I make the switch!

(edited by Eradicator on 15.6.13 1321)


"The Universe is shaped exactly like the Earth- if you go straight long enough you end up where you were."
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I bought the 360 version. Two gripes so far. The movement seems a bit slower and the new controls. It seems as though I have no choice but to learn the new way. I can't find an option to change it back to classic style.
- The Guinness., WWE Smackdown Vs. Raw 2008 (2007)
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