Originally posted by Excalibur05>>>It takes the single best known story line from the series and condenses it down to a fucking minor sub-plot.<<
Best known to...who exactly? I'll admit that I haven't read the comics in a few (several) years, but I'd say that I personally am far more familiar with the Apocalypse and Wolverine/Sabertooth stories, and I know the people I went with weren't familar with any of them.
I only read the X-Men comics (except for the current Astonishing X-Men) from around 1995-1998, and I know this storyline. When Marvel did their "100 Greatest Marvels Of All Time" a few years ago, Amazing Fantasy #15 was number 1, Fantastic Four #1 was number 2, and Uncanny X-Men #137 ("Phoenix Must DIE!" - the culmination of the Dark Phoenix Saga) was number 3.
There really aren't a whole lot of storylines from the comics that would translate well to the movie medium. Days of Future Past (which was touched on in the first movie), Age of Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix Saga. I may be forgetting something, but a lot of the storylines were stuff like the Hellfire Club and the Morlock Massacre and as great as they may be, they wouldn't translate to the big screen at all. As much as I would love to see an Age of Apocalypse movie, you would first have to establish all these characters before you see their alternate universe counterparts, which would make it, like, X-Men 8. So DPS is it. And I can appreciate that you have to rework it. Casual fans aren't going to accept the Shi'ar or the Watcher or the Imperial Guard deathmatch or any of that. But the point of the storyline was exploring the human potential for self-sacrifice, that Jean knew that she couldn't keep this primal force bottled away. The movie just had Phoenix standing off to the side half the time, because there were about four too many storylines trying to go on, crowding out the real meat of the story and reducing who should have been a terrifying entity into mere windowdressing. The Dark Phoenix Saga should not be the "Magneto & Wolverine Show." It's like remaking Othello with Desdemona and Iago as the main characters and giving the Moor 10 minutes of screen time.
All that being said, as a popcorn movie, it did its job. It has lots of explosions and undoubtedly will entertain the vast majority of the moviegoing public. And I don't really blame Brett Ratner. He probably made the best movie he could given the script he was given.
Originally posted by Excalibur05I'm embarrassed to have seen the same movie as Cerebus
I'm embarrassed to have disliked the same movie as Cerebus.
Originally posted by Oliverthose who follow the comics, it's canon, and storylines with a magnifying glass, and point out the plot errors...and there are those who enjoy them for what they are.
Outside of the not-so-lone nuts, I don't think canon is the issue. I'm perfectly happy with streamlining things, amalgamating plots, and avoiding the overly complicated bullshit that comes with comic book continuity. Juggernaut being a mutant is fine. Phoenix's powers being part of her mutation is pretty much a necessity, because the M'Kraan crystal and the Shi'ar empire all that crap has no place in a movie. But X1 and X2 deviated plenty (HELLO MASTERMIND ISN'T STRIKER'S SON) and few minded because they were awesome.
As usual I think Cerebus is too far left and Excalibur is too far right.
The movie isn't a disgrace but the fact is it's fairly good (most people I know, some of which have never read a comic and LOVED the first two rank this the same as I do at 7/10*) when the last one was excellent is unacceptable. A lot of the minor flaws (more melodrama, needless death) are exposed by the way this one pales in comparison.
I really need to sit down at write an essay on what I felt went wrong. There's not much to say that Justin or Cerebus didn't.
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut.... As for "they only have two hours!" in your defense against Cerebus' rant Excalibur, this one breezed in at almost an hour less. This turkey is undercooked (NOT Ratner's fault as he was the only director who looked at the time table and said "What the hell!") and the boneheaded decisions didn't help any.
*Forgive me Cerebus but it's hard to call this a travesty when you've seen Corman's Fantastic Four.
My favorite part was when X-Man fought the bad guys.
I thought this was a pretty unsatisfying end to the X-Men trilogy, but at least it was an ending.
It wasn't all bad. I did like the callbacks to the first movie (Rogue's decision, Iceman vs Pyro), Beast was well done (despite the lack of labcoat), and I liked that they "ended" the storyline - even if I didn't really like HOW they ended it. The "Professor X is still alive!" and "Magneto can still sort of move things!" stuff was tacky.
The biggest problem was that there wasn't enough time given to key moments. There was definitely too much going on, and there were a lot of moments (such as how they take care of Magneto) that should have been given more of an emphasis because they were the dramatic conclusions to everything built up in the first two.
Storm having such a prominent role didn't seem right. Wolverine, I can understand since he's been such a focal character, but I didn't feel Storm was really there to catch the fall as leader after Cyclops and Jean Gray were gone. And it really dragged the movie down for me.
Also, 30 minutes of "We're going to pretend Cyclops doesn't exist" until someone finally asks "Where's Cyclops?" was a little too much to me. The Angel stuff was mostly not needed, and there had to be a creative alternative to that.
It made an assload of money, so that could mean an X4 (even though this was "The Last Stand"), but I don't see that happening with the way they ended things. The most they can do is drag out Apocalypse for a movie - if they can get everyone together again - but, I'm betting they don't do X4 and just stick with the "Wolverine" and "Magneto" movies they have planned, doing spin-offs rather than direct sequels.
I can't get over Ellen Page as Shadowcat. I can't believe that she went from dueling with Lahey and Randy on Trailer Park Boys to facing the Juggernaut in a major summer blockbuster.
As for the movie itself, bleh. I can't really say I've been overly impressed with any of the X-films. X2 was the best, but still a solid level below the upper echelon of recent comic movies (Spidey II, Batman Begins)
"He looks like a perverted roofer who knocks off early on warm spring days to drink beer and ogle teenage girls at the river, but wrestles like a man who actually cares about his job." ---DVDVR's Raven Mack on "Gigolo" Jimmy Del Ray
For all the complaining, did anybody notice the look that Xavier gave Wolverine when he was about to be blown up. Kinda like Obi-Wan made sure a young Luke saw him "dying" in the light sabre duel with Vader. Prof X knew he wouldn't/couldn't die. I liked it.
I thought it was a fun flick. Sure there were some errors and things could have been explained differently but I liked that it actually told different stories than the ones we know. I guess it's this thing called "yet another alternative universe" which Marvel has plenty of I believe?
I don't feel Calisto, Psylocke etc were shafted because they were never really introduced. Unlike Cyclops but we all know that by now
Beast, Juggernaut were cool. Wolverine was great once more. What I thought was interesting that basically Storm did have a larger role for the right reason; isn't she like one of the leading X-men, a teacher at the school, a combat veteran? Though ofcourse when the shit did hit the fan it was Wolverine and Beast who took charge.
I liked how Mystique reverted to human form and looking quite nice there naked on the floor of the truck (some folks in the audience commented on that) only to have Magneto act all cold hearted (showing he is a complex character) and actually say she used to be beautiful (when blue and covered with scales)..awesome
The two endings were awesome. First Magneto manipulating the chess piece (I was expecting him to fail) and Xavier returning.
My bladder hates me for waiting out the credits to see that final scene. My bladder has submitted the following mild improvement that could have improved the ending.
Have Magneto sitting there, playing chess alone.. manipulates the piece a little. A nursing home attendant wheels an invalid up to the other side. "Here's your playmate" and the attendant walks away. Magento rolls his eyes. Until he hears a voice in his head saying "hello, Erik". Magneto looks up, smiles and says "your move..."
Would tie up the chess-playing sequences that they used in the previous movies. That's what I was expecting in the final scene. But my film-making skills have only involved a home made McKenzie brothers homage, made with my brother in 1988...so I'm not an expert in cinema.
"Speaking of Thomases, I loved your recent Atrocious GM Summit column, although I think that you flatter Isiah Thomas far too much by suggesting that he is merely one of a number of atrocious GMs. The truth is that Rob Babcock and Billy King are Einstein next to him. The mess he is creating right now in New York will be studied by business school students 50 years from now alongside Enron and pets.com."
That movie was almost exactly what I expected from X3. Ratner did a good job. As is his style, he apes better directors when he can, and just blows stuff up to distract the audience the rest of the time. The real problem, as people already said, was the weak-ass script. Tried to do too much, and didn't do any of it very well. Liked all the new characters, although I was pretty surprised that out of all the possible cameo characters we got Arclight. I do wish that we'd gotten at least one scene with the original five X-men from the comics, as this was the first movie that actually had all of them in it. Overall, I liked the movie, but it was easily the weakest of the three.
Finally saw it today. I thought it was pretty damn good.
First off, let me say any person expressing Cerebus' level of hatred is, I think, probably just complaining for the sake of complaining (or needs a therapist). I mean, it had definite faults but X-3 was not this decade's Batman & Robin, which frankly is what I think people want to make it out to be. Seriously, if you take any movie about people with "special powers" that seriously, you need to look into some serious stress relief. Reorganize them life-priorities. Climb a mountain, go for a bike ride, maybe visit one of them massage parlours where they do the pully-wully for an extra twenty bucks; you'll feel better. The sun will still come up tomorrow, folks. It's just a movie.
Maybe I'm out on the thinnest of ice when I say this, but I just have never been offended by a crappy movie. I love movies, but I never got that righteous indignation a lot of people seem to have for them. I never sat in a theatre seat feeling owed a life-altering experience. You want that, get your ass to church. I must say I have rarely if ever gone to any movie feeling that the frontal lobe of my brain had been raped by big studio wang.
If you thought it was that bad, why did you sit in the seat and just endure such an ordeal? You thought it was the worst sequel ever but you sat there wasting precious moments of your life which you'll never get back. I don't get that. It takes a truly demented psychology to expose oneself to something one vehemently despises.
Cyclops was always my favourite growing up. I didn't like his death, but after being quietly humiliated by his treatment in X-2, I wasn't really holding out much hope for him in this one. You're calling for Ratner's head about the way Cyclops was handled, but Singer didn't treat him any better. He never looked like a leader for a single moment. With things going the way they were, he's better off dead.
Another thing that bothered me was when Professor X told Wolverine "I don't have to explain myself, least of all to you". That just seemed so petty and completely out-of-character. Bad writing. Didn't make me want to kill baby seals, but then, I'm not a lunatic.
Storm didn't bother me. In the comic isn't she one of the leaders, at least (er, I remember her having a mohawk and stealing Cyke's visor and becoming the leader). Saying Halle Berry can't act is a little silly. She won an Oscar. I'd imagine not being able to pull off an absurd weather-changing cartoon character won't be the basis on which she is denied entry into heaven. She was in the first two, so hating on this is "retarded". What were they gonna do, re-cast someone else, who is less famous, for one movie? And if so, who? Ashanti's a little young. Why even complain about something that no director alive would have changed?
Was Kitty supposed to look THAT young. I had her pegged at around thirteen or fourteen. IMDB says she's nineteen, but she sho nuff don't look it. In any case, seeing people older than me (like Iceman) make out with people younger than me is creepy. Seeing her say "dickhead" was also weird.
I thought they overdid Wolverine's healing powers, but again, X-2 contained him healing a bullet out of his brain and back through his skull; they lost me there. Last time I checked, a bullet in your fucking brain kills you. You don't ache and eventually die of the resulting injury, you die instantly. For all the fellatio about X-2, no one has ever been able to offer me a satisfactory explation for that moment which was, to me, not only the dumbest moment in this movie franchise, but in any ever. Superman reversing the rotation of the Earth to change the progression of time was less dumb. Sofia Copolla being cast as Mary Corleone was less dumb, though to be fair not quite as horse-faced.
That what stuck out as not great, but none of it ruined the thing for me. As for cheesy dialogue, I haven't been to a comic movie that lacked any. It's based on comic books, which contain 98.7% of planet earth's bad dialogue (the remainder residing in soap operas, pro wrestling, and porn). Frenetic pacing? Good stuff. Juggernaut went out like a bitch, but I never liked him anyway. Mangeto being something of a bitch, fine by me. The mutant who senses other mutants and is really fast, whose name I didn't catch, was hot. Her hotness would have prevented me from catching her name even if it had been more prominent (I'm weak that way). Angel was useless as a meaningful character, but he was metaphorically significant. Dad wants him to be cured, he refuses, this is the only reason Dad survives. That may not do justice to some comic storyline, but it's deeper than most popcorn movies ever get. I liked all the action, I liked a lot of it. I had fun.
It wasn't for comic fans, by the by. Hellboy was for comic fans. Hundred and fifty million dollar budgets only go to movies for everyone.
I thought they overdid Wolverine's healing powers, but again, X-2 contained him healing a bullet out of his brain and back through his skull; they lost me there.
I thought that it just lodged itself in his forehead after being stopped by his adamantium skull. Maybe I'm wrong!
I wish more had been done to establish Beast's backstory. That one little bit with Leech making his arm all regular-like hinted at the potential of Hank McCoy going from a regular looking guy to a blue furball, which was done quite well in the X-Men Evolution cartoon. I suppose that this film being as busy as it was, that sort of thing would have been a good thing to set up in a previous movie, I guess. Oh well! Maybe we can petition Peter Jackson to film the next X-Men movie, and that way every mutant can have thirty minutes of screen time.
Was that Stan Lee watering his lawn in the opening flashback?
It's not a theory. It's a (movie) fact. The "fucking" bullet hit the "fucking" adamantium on his "fucking" skull and thus popped out FLATTENED without it "fucking" killing him. I'm surprised no one you asked in the 3 years or so since X2 couldn't tell you that.
Originally posted by Hogan's My Dadcomic books, which contain 98.7% of planet earth's bad dialogue
Alan Moore. Neil Gaiman. Garth Ennis. J.M. DeMatteis.
In addition to the fact that, yes, Wolverine's skull is bulletproof, despite what you usually see in movies, a brain injury is not necessarily fatal. There are plenty of people who've put guns to their heads as a means of suicide who just wind up as cripples or vegetables. In fact, there are at least two instances in the comics where someone with healing powers similar to Wolverine's (Sabertooth and Deadpool) were able to recover from catastrophic brain injuries.
Originally posted by CerebusA whole bunch of crap.
I'm sure you have some good points in there but if you want to have an intelligent point of view try not using the word fuck in every sentence. And calling someone fucking retarded because they liked a movie you didn't is lame. Especially since, as you said yourself, millions of people liked it. Sorry but if millions of people liked it and this message board didn't, then it did a pretty good job. I don't think they're worried that the W readers didn't like X-Men 3.
A lot of people act as if this movie was so bad that they're ashamed to be a fan of the X-Men comics. The only reason I'm ashamed to be a fan of the X-Men comics is because of the way the X-Men comic fans acts so immaturely over a silly movie. No wonder comic book fans have such a bad reputation.
Man, I'm glad I have never read any of the X-men comics in my life, because otherwise I guess I would have spent all of Saturday beating my girlfriend and killing my cats in anger over which characters were improperly portrayed.
Thankfully I didn't have to do any of those things since I'd never seen much of either previous X-movie or read the comics so it was a fairly easy to follow kind of fun action movie. Besides, I only do fanboy rants about Sir Ian movies where he plays a wizard in Middle-Earth.