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The W - Pro Wrestling - X-Pac as a main eventer? (Page 2)
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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 72 days
Last activity: 72 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by Jackson
    Sure they hate Angle but singing "you suck" during his intro is one thing.

    Screaming "X-Pac sucks" cause he just did his sixth spinning heel kick is another.

    Angle can silence a suck chant by performing in the ring which is something I have never seen X-Pac do.



Actually, wouldn't a heel want to ENCOURAGE those chants, not silence them?



Caring is the first step towards disappointment.
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst








Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3870 days
Last activity: 3867 days
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0

      From the X-pac interview on WWF.com




      It's a bunch of (B.S.), he said. "It's a bunch of guys insecure guys saying a bunch of stuff and they don't know what they're talking about. We're just doing our thing. We always do what's right for business. People can say anything they want, but the past is the past, and what's going on now is what's going on now. And we're all business. You've seen the matches; you've seen the stuff with The Rock and Hogan.



      I've read where some people say I jumped over the entire talent roster into a top spot. That's a crock too. I've been in this business 15 years. I've been a main-event guy and I was kind of damaged goods for a while, but I took six months off and I'm back, and that's all there is to it. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. A lot of guys think they know what they're doing, and the fact of the matter is, they don't really. They don't know how to draw money. And until they get there, they need to shut up.







    Did I miss something? When the hell was X-pac ever a main-eventer? Granted I come back to watching WWF till the fall of 99 but I dont even recall X-Pac being IC champ.

    I think they should cut Edge loose on this guy again. Hanging out with main eventers doesnt make you a main eventer. Ditto for hanging out with guys that draw money doesnt mean you draw money too. Who does this guy think he is? This is the same X-pac that was booed at Invasion while the entire WWF was face. But he draws money? There are 20 guys on the roster more over than X-Pac. Does being friends with HHH really get him all these privileges?










Your concentrating on him in the WWF, what about Sean's run in the WCW? Even there, while he may not have main evented, he was in some fairly major storylines and sold a lot of those t-shirts with the 6-ball on it.

For example, a big storyline of the original nWo era was Syxx subbing for Nash under "Wolfpac" rules while Nash took a break for an injury or something of that nature. Hall & Syxx were then near, if not at, the top of the card for a match against The Steiners where the Steiners won.

From memory, didn't he also hold the WCW US or TV belt at one stage too?

And then of course his jump to he wwF and the shoot interview he cut against Eric Bischoff, prior to the DX 'attack' on WCW headquarters. This actually transended the WWF and saw Bischoff cut an interview in responce on his harley (it was pretty lame) challenging Vinnie Mac for a match at an upcomming PPV he knew Vince wouldn't attend, and generally accelerating the WWF's overtaking of WCW.

Prior to this, Syxx had a feud with Flair that was specualted could jump if Flair decided to jump to the WWF after that stupid lawsuit Bischoff handed Flair, in responce to Ric missing a Thunder taping to see David wrestle in a high school tournament.

While overshadowed by Austin Vs McMahon and Shawn as DX leader, Syxx got a lot of TV time in his early WWF days and a nice 'ol push.

Then again, no-one at the time wanted to give credit for the things Bischoff had at that time done right, one of which was giving a push to, and ccreating a 'brand name' out of, some light heavywieght jobber from up north named the 1-2-3 Kid...

Then again, this was what... 6 or 7 years ago now, and my memory is hazy... but you get the gist of what happend...
Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 1990 days
Last activity: 1515 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37

    Actually, wouldn't a heel want to ENCOURAGE those chants, not silence them?


You CAN be a heel without people thinking you suck in the ring. In fact, you are a much better heel if you are thought of as an actual threat in the ring. Angle "sucks" cause he is a geek that kisses ass not because he can't wrestle.

Since this is the third time I have tried to explain the difference I will know shut the hell up.



Bubbles? Oh come on Sharon! Iím Ozzy Osbourne the Prince of Fucking Darkness. Evil, evil, more fucking evil not a boatload of fucking bubbles man.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 min.
#24 Posted on

    Since this is the third time I have tried to explain the difference I will know shut the hell up.


D'Lo used to get the "D'Lo Sucks" chants just as much as X-Pac which he'd respond with a 'Who Sucks Now' when he got the upperhand. So was D'Lo's heel heat, and you suck chants any different than X-Pac's in your mind?



BDC
Chourico








Since: 26.1.02
From: Falls Church, VA

Since last post: 4465 days
Last activity: 3922 days
AIM:  
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jackson

      Actually, wouldn't a heel want to ENCOURAGE those chants, not silence them?


    You CAN be a heel without people thinking you suck in the ring. In fact, you are a much better heel if you are thought of as an actual threat in the ring. Angle "sucks" cause he is a geek that kisses ass not because he can't wrestle.

    Since this is the third time I have tried to explain the difference I will know shut the hell up.



Your second-to-last statement proves my point. People chant "Angle Sucks"--not just in his intro, but in his promos and during his matches as well--because of his character. So you have to take the same view of X-Pac...that people boo him because of his character, the little annoying guy in school whose ass you always wanted to kick. You can't say, "well, in the live event I went to, people all went to buy beers during an X-Pac match," or "I saw a sign that said 'X-Pac=Toilet Break'" because its purely anecdotal evidence. The whole "sucking in the ring" argument holds absolutely no water when you look at the numbers of guys with less ability than X-Pac who get strong babyface heat (Hogan, I'm looking at you) or the tremendous workers with absolutely no heat (Lance Storm).

Without a Gallup survey of fans and a ratings analysis, I don't think you have anything close to evidence to say that the difference between Angle's heat and X-Pac's heat is that Angle is great at being a heel, but X-Pac just sucks. You have to listen to the reactions they get and say...both guys are good at what they do.

BDC



"Hitler had pieces of flair that he made the Jews wear."
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 451 days
Last activity: 412 days
#26 Posted on

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco

      Since this is the third time I have tried to explain the difference I will know shut the hell up.


    D'Lo used to get the "D'Lo Sucks" chants just as much as X-Pac which he'd respond with a 'Who Sucks Now' when he got the upperhand. So was D'Lo's heel heat, and you suck chants any different than X-Pac's in your mind?





The thing is, even with Kurt Angle being a heel, I *want* to see him on TV. Even if D'Lo Brown is still a heel, I *want* to see him on TV. With X-Pac, if I never see him on TV again, it would be too soon.
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 581 days
Last activity: 196 days
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#27 Posted on
I gotta hit back on a few things....


When I started this I didnt want to argue X-Pacs skills in the ring. My point was that X-pac is not a main eventer, he has never been a main eventer and he will never be a main eventer. Main eventing a RAW or Smackdown doesnt make you a main eventer. The closest X-Pac will ever get to the WWF title is when he is standing next to HHH. And when has he drawn any money?

As far as his heel heat goes, the diffrence is how much do the fans care about him. When hes gone does anyone miss him? NO, in fact they laughed when Mick Foley made light of the fact that hes gone. Angle is a great heel and if he were to get injured the fans would care when he returned. Not so for X-Pac.

My last point is I dont give a shit how good he used to be or how over he used to be. What has he done for me lately? Nothing. Not a damn thing. So he was good 10 years ago? Who cares? Over the last two years X-Pac has failed to stand alone and make the fans care. When he was part of DX nobody cared, HHH was the man everyone wanted. When he had his stable no one cared, when he was practically booking his own wins as LHW champ no one cared. He got booed at Invasion when he was actually trying to get the fans behind him. If you dont believe me watch the tape as soon as the "X-Pac sucks" chants start up. He gets visibly pissed. Anyway, I think he thinks a little too highly of himself for a guy that no one seems to like. I say the WWF should turn him face and see if can get over, like Angle could do. Thats the test, its easy to be a dick heel. But is the hardest thing in the world to be a face,ask HHH.



BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 min.
#28 Posted on

    Anyway, I think he thinks a little too highly of himself for a guy that no one seems to like.


See that's what sends this thread into a cirlcle. How do you know this. From X-Pac sucks chants? I know casual fans that can't stand Angle because of his character, but I enjoy Angle's character as does much of the net. I know people who like X-Pac where the most the net doesn't. Basically there is no way you can seperate the You Suck chats of D'Lo, Angle or X-Pac, based on who YOU like.

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 7.4.02 2218)
EastCoastAvenger
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

Since last post: 1992 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#29 Posted on
What's he done for you lately? Didn't you notice?! He got someone interested enough to actually sit at a computer and make a post about X-Pac! He's actually got people here -you included- debating whether or not he "sucks". I think X-Pac is generating a lot of interest and response for a guy who no one cares about. ;)



"I hate motherfuckers claimin' that they foldin bank
But steady talkin shit in the holding tank
First you wanna step to me
Now your ass screamin for the deputy
They send you to Charlie-Baker-Denver row
Now they runnin up in ya slow
You're gone, used to be the Don Juan
Now your name is just 'Twan
Switch it, snap it, rollin your eyes and neck
You better run a check..."


--From "Check Yo' Self"
by Ice Cube
LordOfTheSmarks
Chipolata








Since: 18.3.02
From: THE ohio state university

Since last post: 4480 days
Last activity: 4373 days
#30 Posted on
This thread has devolved into something pretty useless. There's no way you're going to convince somebody that there's a difference between the "X-Pac sucks" chants and "You Suck" chants for Angle if they're convinced that there isn't.

It's like the old definition of pornography... "I can't define it but I know it when I see it."

So, I guess Steph was just a great heel, huh guys?



"somewhere down in suburbia it ain't right"
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 72 days
Last activity: 72 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    The thing is, even with Kurt Angle being a heel, I *want* to see him on TV. Even if D'Lo Brown is still a heel, I *want* to see him on TV. With X-Pac, if I never see him on TV again, it would be too soon.


So that's *obviously* true for EVERY SINGLE wrestling fan in America.

If I bring a sign that says "Angle=boring," does that magically change his heat to "hate heat?" If I use the bathroom during a Lance Storm match, does that change his heat...oh, nevermind. He has none.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 8.4.02 0448)
Caring is the first step towards disappointment.
CactusJayC
Pinkelwurst








Since: 26.3.02
From: Holyoke, Mass.

Since last post: 4461 days
Last activity: 4329 days
AIM:  
#32 Posted on
Guys, guys...I can settle this whole dispute with ONE sentence...



X-Pac sucks.



"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are good is like expecting the bull not to charge because you are a vegetarian."
- Dennis Wholey (1937-)

The Vile One
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4445 days
Last activity: 4322 days
#33 Posted on
X-pac didn't get booed at Invasion b/c he's a great heel, he got booed b/c he sucks. Remember the Kidman/X-pac fued. WWF always tried to build it up with X-pac being the face and Kidman the heel. They even had X-pac playing face when he beat Kidman to unify the titles about a week later.

Oh and X-pac is a shitty wrestler who hasn't had one decent match that actually went over 10 minutes in about 5 years.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir
EastCoastAvenger
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: Clearwater, FL

Since last post: 1992 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#34 Posted on
X-Pac doesn't suck... YOU suck!!

Just had to bring it back for old times sake! I loved it when he said that. Not quite as abrasive as "Say 'what' if ya sleep with your sister!" But still a classic! :)



"I hate motherfuckers claimin' that they foldin bank
But steady talkin shit in the holding tank
First you wanna step to me
Now your ass screamin for the deputy
They send you to Charlie-Baker-Denver row
Now they runnin up in ya slow
You're gone, used to be the Don Juan
Now your name is just 'Twan
Switch it, snap it, rollin your eyes and neck
You better run a check..."


--From "Check Yo' Self"
by Ice Cube
BDC
Chourico








Since: 26.1.02
From: Falls Church, VA

Since last post: 4465 days
Last activity: 3922 days
AIM:  
#35 Posted on

    Originally posted by LordOfTheSmarks
    This thread has devolved into something pretty useless. There's no way you're going to convince somebody that there's a difference between the "X-Pac sucks" chants and "You Suck" chants for Angle if they're convinced that there isn't.

    It's like the old definition of pornography... "I can't define it but I know it when I see it."

    So, I guess Steph was just a great heel, huh guys?



Stephanie may be a terrible actress, annoying as all hell, a distraction from focusing on feuds between the actual people wrestling, but how can anyone look at the facts of what they have seen on their televisions over the past two years and not deny that she's not a great heel.

I think what this discussion has revealed is really the lack of really good heels in wrestling today. Vince McMahon is a great heel. Kurt Angle, I think we all agree is a great heel. Triple H used to be a great heel. Other than that, all your top heels are marginal. So what does it take to actually be a heel in 2002? I think there are two: either be a serious prick or be unbearably annoying.

If you look at marginal heels like Chris Jericho and Booker T., I don't know that there's a casual fan out there who thinks either of these guys, or any of the rest of the heel roster (Undertaker excepted) woudld have a legitimate shot at beating a top level babyface; but that even if they do win, its going to be through some illegal means--which let's face it, the illegal heel victory has been beaten to death.

I think even Angle is hurt by his propensity to only beat the top guys by cheating. I think cheating to win has its place, of course--it wouldn't be wrestling without it, but I think the Triple H model for effective heel-making is in order for the heel roster. Their finishing move needs to be enough to put a top guy away.

With some of the strongest babyfaces of all time currently on one roster in Austin, Rock, and Hogan...with two of the greatest heels of currently playing babyface roles (for now) in Ric Flair and Triple H, the WWF needs to strike now in making some real bad guys--I think the sustainability of success depends on it.

BDC



"Hitler had pieces of flair that he made the Jews wear."
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There's a pretty nice AP article on Lesnar here. About as even-handed as it gets talking about a wrestler, I think.
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