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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE.com posts US title lineage
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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 6 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.60
When you go here, you'll see that the title begins in their eyes in 1981 when Flair beat Snuka. Solie.org lists the title beginning in 1975. I can't find any NWA contract changes that would make that title change special, save that the WWE can claim Flair as that belt's first champ (even though he beat the previous title holder). Flair is then listed as losing it to Roddy Piper.

Oddly enough, Solie.org says Flair beat Snuka, lost the belt to Greg Valentine, regained it and THEN lost to Piper.



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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 7 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76

How funny is it that Steve Austin dropped the title to Hacksaw Jim Duggan in 27 seconds?
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Puroresu's Wrestling-Titles.com site has Flair vacating the belt in 8/79. Snuka wona tournament for the title, then Flair won it back 4/1980, losing it to Valentine 7/1980, winning it back, and losing to Piper.



Well, just as an attorney, as a human being, I would have thought that if there were recommendations that were so blatantly and flagrantly over the line in terms of torture, that you might have recognized them. I mean, it certainly appears to me that water boarding, with all its descriptions about drowning someone to that kind of a point, would come awfully close to getting over the border, and that you'd be able to at least say today, There were some that were recommended or suggested on that, but I certainly wouldn't have had a part of that, as a human being.
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Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
As a wrestling fan, this lineage just irks me to no end.

I really don't want to rag on WWE for this, but I do think it's just a bit peculiar that the date they chose to begin their US Heavyweight Title lineage was April 19, 1980. Now, maybe this is just a bit of my NWA/WCW favoritism shining through, but isn't it funny how this date falls two days before the Intercontinental Title's first LEGITIMATE title change-- April 21st, 1980? If one didn't know any better, it would seem as if the creation of the US Title was merely a response by the competition to counter the existence of the Intercontinental Title.

To me it just smacks of WWE re-writing history as they usually tend to do, thus, in essence, making the Intercontinental Title seem more important and indeed, older than the United States Heavyweight Title, which, at very least for the latter part, it is not. NOT NOT NOT. Good grief! What point is WWE making here? "We're the best EVARRRRRR!!!!! And we can re-write history to prove it!!!" I suppose.

It's just disappointing to me how WWE doesn't even begrudgingly acknowledge the importance of the US Title as a secondary belt as being on par with the IC Title. Even the introductory caption before the list seems deprecatory in a sense, when compared to the IC title's. While I won't disagree with WWE that they have taken strides to help the US Championship's credibility somewhat (and boy, what a far cry indeed from the last several months of WCW's existence), I take issue with this comment in the intro:

"With each great name that captured the championship came more prestige."

Oh yeah!!! Because when guys as lowly as Harley Race, Johnny Valentine, Terry Funk, Blackjack Mulligan, Rick Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka AND Ric Flair were amongst former US Champions, the belt DESPERATELY NEEDED to gain prestige!

Oh, nevermind. These title reigns aren't recognized by WWE, heaven forbid!

Oh and I love how WWE says that it "finally regained the glory" of the US Title by guys like John Cena, Eddy Guerrero and Booker T holding the championship. Of course we can forget how The Big Show held the belt for quite a while without defending it. And nevermind how, before WWE officially sealed the WCW lineage of the title, Booker T just GAVE the US gold to Kanyon! Just GAVE the title to him! I mean, that's almost as preposterous as awarding someone a title in a fictional tournament in some far, far away place... like Rio de Janeiro or something.

Oh, and that's not all. To honor this revitalized glory that WWE has reinstilled into the United States Heavyweight Championship, have John Cena carry around the STUPIDEST FREAKIN' TITLE BELT EVER CREATED BESIDES THE FIRST WCW HARDCORE TITLE!!! Ugh. I mean, I even like Barry Horowitz's 'The Winner' Title belt in Global better than Cena's customized... whatever it is. (Okay, so I just had to throw in some wrestling trivia-obscurity there! )

Believe me, I'm not trying to put down the IC Title in any way, but c'mon, WWE, for goodness' sake, can't you even concede that maybe something created by your now-defunct competition- a secondary title belt- actually had a little more prestige at a given point in time than your secondary belt?? Gosh darn ah luv mah DubbyuhDubbyuhEEEEEs!

I've concluded my vitriolic rant. :)



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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.61
I agree, except that Austin's skull title was even dumber. That was the number one belt, and they turned it into a prop for a hick who would have been no less popular if the belt had been left the same.



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Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1979 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.33
{ EDIT: 600 quoted words snipped - sheesh - CRZ }

What about Carlito winning the US title in his first match? Thought that was pretty lame indeed.

(edited by CRZ on 12.1.05 1852)



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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 338 days
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#7 Posted on
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    I agree, except that Austin's skull title was even dumber. That was the number one belt, and they turned it into a prop for a hick who would have been no less popular if the belt had been left the same.


I thought the Skull belt was pretty kick-ass. I think it did a lot to get his character across, he was fighting against Vince, and he didn't want Vince's (WWF's traditional) belt, he wanted his own. Cena's got no real reason to have his own belt in the first place. Plus, it wasn't as blantly obvious that it was a different belt design as Cena's is. From a good distance, Austin's belt looked just like the old belt.

And speaking of Cena's belt, I really dont care too much that Cena has a new, personalized belt design that looks like crap, because the "original" US Title belt looks like crap anyway. That red/white/blue color has to go. Title belts, in my mind, should be the basic gold/silver and maybe a few little colored highlights, but not these hideously bright blocks of color.



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Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
Well, the truth- no matter who likes it is that most people are digging that spinning belt (I personally dont care) and 90% of ALL WWE fans LOVED the skull belt- it even got a huge pop when Austin became champion again and asked for it.


Whats weird to me about this whole lineage thing is that the WWE goes out of their way to make all the belts seem ancient and really important, but when it comes to the
World Heavyweight Championship which is supposed to be "the most prestigious prize in sports entertainment" (and Im quoting them in their promo for New Year's Resolution) they only use the lineage from when the belt was given to Triple H when the Undisputed Title was split up a couple of years ago (09-02-02). Why's that?

(edited by WhoTookMyHonor? on 12.1.05 1631)


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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 271 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.94
    Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor?
    Whats weird to me about this whole lineage thing is that the WWE goes out of their way to make all the belts seem ancient and really important, but when it comes to the
    World Heavyweight Championship which is supposed to be "the most prestigious prize in sports entertainment" (and Im quoting them in their promo for New Year's Resolution) they only use the lineage from when the belt was given to Triple H when the Undisputed Title was split up a couple of years ago (09-02-02). Why's that?

    (edited by WhoTookMyHonor? on 12.1.05 1631)


The WWE's recent thing has been showcasing RAW and depicting Smackdown as the lesser of the two brands. As an extension of that, the RAW World Title is superior to the Smackdown WWE Title.



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Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 94 days
Last activity: 94 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
    Originally posted by Freeway420
      Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor?
      Whats weird to me about this whole lineage thing is that the WWE goes out of their way to make all the belts seem ancient and really important, but when it comes to the
      World Heavyweight Championship which is supposed to be "the most prestigious prize in sports entertainment" (and Im quoting them in their promo for New Year's Resolution) they only use the lineage from when the belt was given to Triple H when the Undisputed Title was split up a couple of years ago (09-02-02). Why's that?

      (edited by WhoTookMyHonor? on 12.1.05 1631)


    The WWE's recent thing has been showcasing RAW and depicting Smackdown as the lesser of the two brands. As an extension of that, the RAW World Title is superior to the Smackdown WWE Title.


Exactly,(you're using my point to argue my point) so then- wouldnt they use the lineage of the RAW Heavyweight Belt from at least WCW like they did for the other belts? Come on, are you paying attention here?!



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Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 7 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76
    Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor
    wouldnt they use the lineage of the RAW Heavyweight Belt from at least WCW like they did for the other belts?


Though the RAW title is the big gold belt from WCW, the lineage was merged to the WWE title when Chris Jericho became Undisputed Champion.

But I do wish that the WCW lineage was recognized separately.
RKMtwin
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Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 2149 days
Last activity: 1593 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
    Originally posted by Mayhem
      Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor
      wouldnt they use the lineage of the RAW Heavyweight Belt from at least WCW like they did for the other belts?


    Though the RAW title is the big gold belt from WCW, the lineage was merged to the WWE title when Chris Jericho became Undisputed Champion.

    But I do wish that the WCW lineage was recognized separately.


The funny thing about this situation is that all WWE had to do when the title was established was to have Eric Bischoff come out on RAW and unequivocally state that the World Title continues on with WCW's legacy. Just that would have been enough to tie the belts together! But alas, WWE didn't. But I'm sure I've ranted about this in another thread.

And since this is a thread about the US Title, I STILL want to know about this tidbit of wrestling history:

Kensuke Sasaki (def.) Sting, Tokyo, Japan 11-13-95.

ARRRGHHH!!! I complained about this in the Cruiserweight Title thread, but again-- how in the world does a championship, named the UNITED STATES Heavyweight Title, defended within the UNITED STATES, change hands in ANOTHER country?! Good grief! As much as I loved WCW, BOY I wish I could have the opportunity to travel back in time and go upside someone's head for this particular decision! Things like this definitely reflected on WCW's whole philosophy, in retrospect.

Oh, and for yet ANOTHER example of WCW's complete and utter genius in regards to the way they maintained the integrity and credibility of their championships throughout their existence. turn back the clock to March, 1996. The World TV Title changed hands between Johnny B. Badd and Lex Luger, AND IT WAS NEVER TELEVISED. On Nitro one night, all of a sudden, Luger emerges with the TV Title around his waist. Now, whether or not politics had anything to do with it at the time is besides the point (as far as Badd leaving the promotion or whatever). What use is a TV Title when it's not on TV and furthermore defended on house shows? Almost a decade out and I'm still annoyed by this. (I know, let it go, let it go.)

--Oh, this is a thread about the US Title! Sorry about that.





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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 49 min.
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Good thing they removed from canon that time RVD won the world on the moon, or your head would really be spinning.



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RKMtwin
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Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 2149 days
Last activity: 1593 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Good thing they removed from canon that time RVD won the world on the moon, or your head would really be spinning.


*GASP!* I can't believe RVD isn't listed!!!! WHY?!?!?!?!
(head explodes)

And BTW, in regards to another title lineage thread, cubsfan, your WCW/WWF/WWE Cruiserweight Title History is absolutely excellent! Even though it's not related to the US Title, everyone ought to check it out:

http://thecubsfan.com/wwe/info/wcwcruiserweighthistory.htm

Amazing, amazing compilation of information.

(edited by RKMtwin on 13.1.05 2128)


If your nose is full of boogers it's snot my fault!
CHAPLOW
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Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 94 days
Last activity: 94 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
    Originally posted by Mayhem
      Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor
      wouldnt they use the lineage of the RAW Heavyweight Belt from at least WCW like they did for the other belts?


    Though the RAW title is the big gold belt from WCW, the lineage was merged to the WWE title when Chris Jericho became Undisputed Champion.

    But I do wish that the WCW lineage was recognized separately.


Yeah, I know- but if they had kept the lineage from WCW and even the pre-WCW era,(NWA and whatnot) the lineage of that belt would have gone back to 1905- which would then mean that this year that title would become ONE HUNDRED YEARS OLD (I dont know what the point of that is, I just think it would be awesome) But no... Mighty Hunter in all his glory is inevitably the first World Heavyweight Champion ever! hooray!

Then again, maybe its not Triple H's ego at fault here- maybe they had some legal issues with NWA or something (does anyone know?). In any case, this makes all that talk about Ric Flair "holding that title 16 times" completely incoherent with its supposed lineage.

I KNOW THIS IS ABOUT THE U.S. TITLE.... Sorry.



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nothing looks faker then punching in wrestling...loosing them would definatly help the product
- ilovemidgets, What if WWE outlawed the punch? (2002)
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