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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE Wrestler on "Death Watch"
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Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.27
Keller reports, in the latest Torch, that a main event level WWE wrestler is considered to be on death watch and that this person's passing would make the media coverage of Eddie Guerrero's passing seem miminal by comparison because of this star's "credentials".

Any thoughts? I figured the Torch is semi-credible enough to mention here. I figure the word credentials screams out that it's Kurt Angle. Fourteen people in Angle's family have or had angina; it killed several of them. He's bulked up substantially. He takes more risks than he needs to given his physical ailments at that point. He's become consumed with the business to the extent that he's given up his family for it. Seems like he's under tons of stress. And, being a Olympic gold medalist, his death, God forbid, would create a maelstrom of terrible publicity for WWE, enough to significantly damage them.

This isn't of course a death pool, I'm just curious what people might think.



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Since: 18.5.02

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.28
I went through WWE's entire roster and could only think of Ric Flair. He lived HARD for a long period of time. Depending on who you talk to, Angle might not make as much news as Eddie - or maybe the same. Flair fits this perfectly, imo. If I recall correctly, the WCW/Vince Russo worked "heart attack" angle was a play on Flair's real-life heart issues at the time.



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Since: 22.7.05
From: Tulsa, OK

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.79
After reading this both the names that you mentioned jumped out at me. Flair & Angle.

With Flair's years of hard living plus the fact he is in his mid-50's makes him a front runner so to speak.

With Angle's family history of angina plus his impending divorce, makes the stress level high.

But what if it is someone that is on "death watch" because they are distressed over Eddie death and they may be suicidal?



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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.05
I think that this story better be the most legit thing ever run through the Torch, because, otherwise, it's not just morbid, but downright reprehensible to publish no matter how vague it tries to be.

It screams "Who's Next?!" in an organization that's already lost too many athletes before their time. This isn't "Ten Little Indians" we're watching. It's actual lives.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
rv581
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Since: 2.12.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
Well, let's look at it logically: who are the active, main event-caliber wrestlers, whose mainstream name recognition is so high that news of their demise would dwarf the coverage of Eddie's death?

I guess there's: Undertaker, Angle, Flair, HHH, Batista, Cena, HBK, and maybe JBL, Trish, or Orton.

In the semi-retired category, there's: Hogan, Savage, Stone Cold, Piper, Foley, Jim Ross, Lawler, Nash, Hall, Rock, Chyna... and Vince McMahon.

This kind of conjecture is so morbid... but I suppose wrestling fans have been -- sadly -- conditioned to expect this sort of thing. In "sports entertainment" it's not IF -- it's WHEN.

We all know the next shoe is eventually going to drop... but if the WWE truly believes that one of their active superstars might be on the verge of death, I certainly hope they're doing more than simply sending the guy (or gal, I suppose) around the world, to get bashed in the head with steel chairs in the ring, and then spend the night all alone in a motel room...



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thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Here's the actual quote. (Please visit PWTorch) and pay them to read the rest.)


    "There is a top wrestler in WWE today who is considered to be on the unofficial death watch, whose death, due to his credentials, would make the considerable news coverage of Eddie Guerrero's death this week look minor by comparison. It's no secret to most within WWE; if it's not known by Vince McMahon, someone needs to tell him the system needs to be changed. It's one thing to show how much you care about a colleague by crying on the air after he dies. It's another to care enough about someone to do what it takes while he's alive to keep him from dying - even at the expense of box office receipts, storyline interruptions, and being deemed pushy, nosy, or a nark."




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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.76
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker

    It screams "Who's Next?!" in an organization that's already lost too many athletes before their time. This isn't "Ten Little Indians" we're watching. It's actual lives.


Yes, it might scream "Who's Next?!", it is a good, morbid too, question.

I know it's not "Ten Little Indians" but life isn't guarenteed. I, even, could be dead later today...,crossing my fingers I'm not, yet forcasting "death" isn't usually good thing.

Like Edge said over the phone on WWE.com, "It's not as shocking if somebody is already sick but its harder to take if it is someone you don't expect all of a sudden." Only time will tell if somebody else might be the "lonely road of faith."

(edited by jwrestle on 18.11.05 1201)


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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.12
    Originally posted by jwrestle
    Yes, it might scream "Who's Next?!", it is a good, morbid too, question.

    I know it's not "Ten Little Indians" but life isn't guarenteed. I, even, could dead later today...,crossing my fingers I'm not, yet forcasting "death" isn't usually good thing.

    Like Edge said over the phone on WWE.com, "It's not as shocking if somebody is already sick but its harder to take if it is someone you don't expect all of a sudden." Only time will tell if somebody else might be the "lonely road of faith."
PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH



CRZ
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Since: 17.3.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
I could see Kurt being more likely than Flair. Flair is a huge star within the industry, but hes in his fifties. Fifty-year-old dies isnt the sort of story that would get a special on MSNBC.

However, Kurt is an Olympic Gold Medalist. Hes represented this country in the pinnacle of athletic competition, and hes still in his 30s. If he dies, its a big frickin deal.
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Since: 11.5.03
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
    Originally posted by Phantom
    I could see Kurt being more likely than Flair. Flair is a huge star within the industry, but hes in his fifties. Fifty-year-old dies isnt the sort of story that would get a special on MSNBC.

    However, Kurt is an Olympic Gold Medalist. Hes represented this country in the pinnacle of athletic competition, and hes still in his 30s. If he dies, its a big frickin deal.




And the possible stress from his wife leaving him sure doesn't help matters.



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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.52
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by jwrestle
      Yes, it might scream "Who's Next?!", it is a good, morbid too, question.

      I know it's not "Ten Little Indians" but life isn't guarenteed. I, even, could dead later today...,crossing my fingers I'm not, yet forcasting "death" isn't usually good thing.

      Like Edge said over the phone on WWE.com, "It's not as shocking if somebody is already sick but its harder to take if it is someone you don't expect all of a sudden." Only time will tell if somebody else might be the "lonely road of faith."
    PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH


I was speaking "ENGLISH". I guess avoid being blunt and just saying someone else might die unlike the Torch pointed out.



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Since: 17.3.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
      Originally posted by Phantom
      I could see Kurt being more likely than Flair. Flair is a huge star within the industry, but hes in his fifties. Fifty-year-old dies isnt the sort of story that would get a special on MSNBC.

      However, Kurt is an Olympic Gold Medalist. Hes represented this country in the pinnacle of athletic competition, and hes still in his 30s. If he dies, its a big frickin deal.




    And the possible stress from his wife leaving him sure doesn't help matters.
While this is now purely speculation based on rumors, I have to wonder if Kurts health (and refusal to change) is part of the reason hes separated. It's got to be rough seeing your spouse come home in rough shape, and then go back out and do it again.
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.84

Does it seem odd to anyone else that The Torch (or anyone else, for that mnatter) would report on something this big happening to "someone" with no mention of who "someone" is, why they cant reveal this person's name (or why they dont know this person's name), and not even a hint of where/how they received this piece of information about this nameless person??

I can see why they would not mention the source (company insider, rumors, etc) of news about a named person, but to report a story about something like this happening to "someone" without any hint of how they got this info or why they even think it's true seems strange to me.




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Since: 17.3.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    Does it seem odd to anyone else that The Torch (or anyone else, for that mnatter) would report on something this big happening to "someone" with no mention of who "someone" is, why they cant reveal this person's name (or why they dont know this person's name), and not even a hint of where/how they received this piece of information about this nameless person??

    I can see why they would not mention the source (company insider, rumors, etc) of news about a named person, but to report a story about something like this happening to "someone" without any hint of how they got this info or why they even think it's true seems strange to me.
Because they dont want fans to be watching this guy as though hes living on borrowed time? Plus, to specifically name someone over a rumor is the sort of thing that can get someone sued for libel.
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Since: 28.6.04
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.92
    Originally posted by Phantom
    Because they dont want fans to be watching this guy as though hes living on borrowed time? Plus, to specifically name someone over a rumor is the sort of thing that can get someone sued for libel.

Good point, but there's also something to be said about putting something like that out there so fans can speculate about which active main-event wrestler is going to die next. I know that wasn't Keller's intent, and I understand he was trying to raise awareness about not just a specific circumstance but the situation as a whole in the industry. However, if Keller's sources are aware of it, then I'm sure those within the WWE are as well, and anyone subscribing to the Torch already knows that there's a big problem with premature deaths in professional wrestling. I just don't know if telling readers that a high-profile person is on a "death watch" does any good.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 18.11.05 1435)


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Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
Playing a somewhat uncomfortable parlour game:

To "make the considerable news coverage of Eddie Guerrero's death this week look minor", there has to be more to the story than 'popular wrestler dies'. In my opinion, that leaves Hogan, Rock, Austin, or Angle (gold medalist). Possibly Flair, or Bret Hart. I have to presume the family would protect them if it was either HHH or Vince.

Unless they are referring to the reason they are at risk rather than a name guy passing away - a 'juicy' drug story opens up the list of possibles greatly.

Given all that -

Is there any one on this board that would begrudge say.. Angle for setting his boots in the ring and going home, if he's that bad off? Anyone in the live crowds? Who among us would have criticized Eddie for going off to retirement once he got himself straight four years ago, sitting where we are today?

Seems that it's much more about how Vince is allowed to run his business, cutting Test when he was rehabbing an injury, just to remind everyone that you need to get back in the ring yesterday. We had something like this here in Chicago with the Bulls' Eddy Curry and a heart ailment. The GM didn't want to play him without controversial genetic testing. The Knicks were willing to take the chance to trade for him - but remember that it's the athlete pushing to play, not wanting to risk hurting their earnings by sitting out.

Vince seems to treat his employees like they are at Wal-Mart, and he's pretty much got carte blanche to squeeze nickles hard if he wants to (mustn't miss that quarterly dividend). Combine that with a fairly captive workforce, and you have great pressure to keep yourself in the ring, whatever it takes. These are the sorts of things we tend to overlook when we are fans. Like we collectively ignored McGwire's and Sosa's (and others') bulging biceps.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.79
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    Seems that it's much more about how Vince is allowed to run his business, cutting Test when he was rehabbing an injury, just to remind everyone that you need to get back in the ring yesterday.


I think there has to be more to that story than just "Test was hurt, so he was fired". I said before that every single time a wrestler/diva is hurt and sitting at home, the WWE still books them for autograph signings, ticket sales, etc. Because RAW is aired on one station over Canada, we see advertisements for every wrestler's promotional appearances across the country and I never once saw Test mentioned. When I heard about him being let go my first thought was that it was the same situation Austin was in when Bischoff fired him. Austin even admits now that he just didn't want to go back to working matches and that he was just sitting at home to avoid them.

Vince kept Lita when she was out for most of a year. Benoit was out for surgery for months too, but both of them were still doing off-tv appearances during the last half of their recoveries. Eddie himself was injured for most of his first year with the company at a time when all he was to Vince was "potential midcarder" and a small guy at that.

I know that Vince had a horrible history with guys in the 80's/90's as far as them being hurt, but around the time they re-worked the traveling conditions to allow the workers more time at home, only working three (four at most) days a week, that sort of thing, something overall changed with the way he deals with talent. Does he still expect more than he maybe should from them? Probably, but I think it's clear that Test being let go is the exception rather than the rule to how he deals with injured guys now.


As for the Torch's story itself, printing something like that (especially making sure to mention that this person is somehow 'more important' than Eddie so that everyone gets all worked up and starts talking about 'who's gonna die next?') without actually saying *anything* is incredibly irresponsible.


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Since: 16.5.05

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
Maybe Keller thought that Vince DIDN'T know.. and that this would somehow get to him. ....

If its Angle... please man, for the love of God, retire. Not that you go around reading messageboards, and doubtfull CRZ's lowkey little board would even be known to you, but Christ... I was just thinking the only guy on the roster, that I could think of that was a great face OR heel, and had Eddie's skills on the mic and the ring was Angle. I can't bear the thought of losing two people like that. My gut feeling is that it is Angle. I am a huge HUGE Angle mark, but I hope if it is him, he backs off.



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Since: 14.7.03
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.73
Here's a really sad but interesting article about Kurt I found from some website.



    The Right Bower: Killing Yourself to Live

    by: Jay Bower
    on: 11/17/2005 2:58 am est

    On August 29th of 1985, a typical American man was hard at work on a construction site in rural Pennsylvania, perched high in the air like a bird. It was a typical summer afternoon, and with autumn drawing near he was looking forward to the relief those months would bring.

    Unfortunately, for some people, the autumn never comes.

    In life, a fraction of a second can ripple for eternity. He knew that he had lost balance, but he didn't have time to think about it. He was crashing to the ground. His head hit concrete first. Both of his shoulders broke instantly. His skull was cracked in three places. Lesser things would have killed any other man, but not him. He picked his broken body off the ground and began the longest walk of his life. When he arrived, he checked himself into the hospital.

    No one could ever tell him that he wasn't tough. And no one could ever tell him that he wasn't determined.

    On August 31st, two days later, the man was pronounced dead in the same hospital.

    David Angle was 55 years old, and he couldn't take his pride with him.

    Twenty-four hours later, his son Kurt wasn't listening to those who were telling him not to play in the varsity football game that afternoon. Kurt thrived to overcome all things, even his father's death. Sixteen solo tackles, two touchdowns and one interception later, Kurt walked off the field after the best football game that he would ever play, feeling proud.

    Little did Kurt know that he would some day be carrying his own broken body to the hospital, and positioning himself to follow in his father's footsteps of living proud, and regretfully probably dying young.

    "I just wanted to talk a little bit about him, and what he meant to me. When he was on, he was the best wrestler in the business. He may have even been the best ever. He showed me a lot of things, and said a lot of things that not only helped me professionally, but personally. He cared about everybody, he loved everybody. I love you, and I'll miss you".

    Kurt Angle made these comments, fighting back tears, in the wake of Eddie Guerrero's tragic death. Sadly, these comments aren't that different than those that could made about Angle himself one emotional Monday evening if he doesn't make make a drastic change immediately.

    Less than eight hours after Vince McMahon and Chavo Guerrero addressed the media at a press conference in Minneapolis in regards to Guerrero's death, a broken down Kurt Angle landed on his head after taking one of the most dangerous offensive maneuvers of his career from the top rope. Like his father, Angle is tough, determined and proud. Like his former mentor and fellow Olympic medallist David Schultz, Angle is tough, determined and proud. At 36 years old, there is a good chance Kurt Angle can outlive his mentor Schultz, who was murdered in 1996 at the age of 37. At the rate Kurt Angle is going, outliving his father may be his toughest battle to date.

    His checklist reads like an almanac of worst case scenarios. Nerve damage to his face. Six knee surgeries. A broken neck. Torn muscles. Bone chips removed from his upper spine. Destroyed ligaments. Dislocated shoulders. Several years ago, Angle said to the press with pride, "Look at my face. It looks like I have aged fifteen years in the last five." Angle can no longer hear out of his left ear. It has been drained 80 times.

    When training for the Olympics, Kurt Angle pushed his body to the point of insanity. "I'd train so ferociously some days that I would make myself sick". That training makes getting out of bed today even difficult according to Angle, as he broke his body down at a very young age.

    Five months before the 1996 Olympics, Kurt Angle cracked two vertebrae and pulled four muscles in his back, causing two herniated discs to stab into his spinal cord. The pain was intense. Doctors told him that he risked paralysis competing, but Kurt was proud. Mepivacaine was the painkiller that Kurt Angle chose, and for the next half of a year he took it constantly to make training, and eventually winning a gold medal possible. Hunched over in tears, Angle had defied paralysis and proved himself as the best amateur wrestler in the world. He wished his father would have been there to see it.

    Nine years later, Kurt was in his fourth as a WWE wrestler. In an eerily similar scenario, Kurt Angle's neck was destroyed in early 2003, and he was advised not to compete in the main event of Wrestlemania 19. Maybe it was the backflip that he attempted from the top of a steel cage, fifteen feet in the air on January 14th of that year. It was a move that could end a career if the slightest thing went wrong, but in the all-or-nothing fashion typical to Angle, he went big. The result was the most graceful moonsault imaginable, and as Kurt hung upside down in the air high above the arena, time seemed to stand still for just an instant before his knees hit the mat in a landing that could not have been any more perfect. Angle had wagered his body for glory, and come out on top yet again.

    But how long could he keep getting lucky? He was willing to roll the dice one more time at Wrestlemania of that year, deciding to step into the ring and face Brock Lesnar in a match that would solidify his legacy, or paralyze him for life. Angle not only stared down death, but taunted it, taking dangerous drops on his neck and shoulders before passing the World Championship to Brock Lesnar. The 54,097 fans in attendance roared in approval of Kurt flying around the ring. Kurt's wife Karen and newborn daughter Kyra probably had different reactions.

    For 240 days a year, Kurt Angle wakes up in a bed that doesn't belong to him. In hotel rooms all over America, Canada, Japan and Europe. His Coraopolis, Pennsylvania home, his BMW and his family are things he seldom has the time to see. Several years ago he stated in an interview that the only way he could continue to wrestle was through the heavy use of painkillers. In 2005, Kurt Angle is going harder than ever.

    In an interview with Kurt Angle and his wife Karen several years ago, Angle stated that the only time he ever physically felt 100% was right before a match when his adrenaline took over. Kurt continued "But after that, I'm right back down to the bottom again. It sucks, because if I want to play with Kyra... (Kurt looks to his daughter playing in the next room)...sometimes I just can't do it".

    Karen Angle spoke: "If he gets to the point where he really can't play with her, that will be it. No matter what you have in your house, no matter how good your life is, you can't give that up. If that's what happens, that's when I'll put my foot down and make him stop."

    At that moment, Kurt Angle smiled, "I'll never stop" he finished.

    Kurt Angle's marriage ended several months ago, devastating him personally. He is a proud man, and wrestling is something that he is dedicated to, and excellence is his obsession. Tired of wondering if he would be in a wheelchair in a few years, as Karen Angle has publicly wondered, she opted to separate from Kurt over the summer, and their marriage never made it to the autumn.

    Kurt Angle has made it clear in the past that he will settle for nothing less than being remembered as the best of all time. But is that distinction worth his life? To Kurt, a proud man like his father, it might very well be.

    Kurt's physical changes over the past half-decade are shocking. His head has increased in size dramatically, which may or may not point to use of Human Growth Hormone. Angle has suffered concussions, and has major nerve damage as a result of his neck problems. His triceps appear to be on the verge of atrophy, and one of Angle's biceps is noticeably larger than the other. Kurt Angle has a history of heart disease in his family. He has a glassy look in his eyes, and is a self-admitted user of painkillers. And he shows no signs of slowing down. As a training partner once said of Kurt Angle, "He doesn't have an off switch".

    Estranged from his family, Kurt Angle is said to be more focused on being the best in wrestling than he ever has been. But how many times can Kurt Angle keep rolling the dice before his luck runs out? I don't know if World Wrestling Entertainment can continue to allow him to try.

    Kurt Angle doesn't need wrestling. He has made millions and has nothing left to prove, at least not to his fans. He could stay another few years, maybe end up with permanent damage to 10% of his brain like his idol Bret Hart. Or he could move on with is life, make a new career out of motivational speaking, acting. Maybe amatuer wrestling seminars.

    Kurt Angle has proven in the past that pride is more important to him than anything however. It has cost him his health, it has cost him his family, and at the rate he is going, sooner rather than later, he too may find himself dragging his dying body to the hospital when doctors can no longer help, and his pride may cost him his life. Sadly, it may already have. And Kurt won't be able to take his pride with him either.

    The person most qualified to speak, Kurt's long time wife Karen, spoke best when she said, "I don't think what he's doing to himself is worth it".

    Neither do I.








I miss the GWF.
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Since: 16.4.05
From: East Lansing, MI

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Wow, that is something.

I wouldn't be angry at all if Angle hung up the boots right now. He's been a hell of a performer for the past six years and has already sprung himself into the class of one of the best ever. Not many people can say that. I mean, four years in he was one of the best ever.

He shouldn't risk his health for us.

If he does decide to hang them up, he deserves one more title run and should go out on top. Maybe he can stay around in a non-wrestler role.

We love you, Kurt, don't do anything stupid.
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She had nearly a weekly run on the OVW television show there for quite a while, mainly in a long feud with a wrestler by the name of Jillian Hall.
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