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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE Wrestlemania XIX statement: The more things change...
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humanmeal
Mettwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: East Bay Area, California

Since last post: 4206 days
Last activity: 3482 days
#1 Posted on
From WWE press release 09.24.02:

"On March 29, 1987, 93,173 fans attended WrestleMania III at the Pontiac Silverdome - a world indoor attendance record that still stands today for any sports or entertainment event."

The more things change, the more they stay the same. When we consider WWE as a corporation, look at its business organization-- we've had a lot to criticize from the outside. What's been amazing lately is how disorganized they are inside. But one thing hasn't changed: They're still pushing a phony 'record' based on an attendance figure at least 20,000 higher than actual attendees. Hell, they announced this 'record' before they even held the event! (And please, don't suggest 'advance ticket sales' as a potential explanation: no one this side of the Ben-gals has 20K no-shows.)

I'm a believer in the idea that the small things can tell you more about a situation than the big warts everyone naturally focuses on. This is pretty small, but to put it out there while they're under the pressure they're under-- with a stockholders' meeting this week, too-- is... telling.



I think you guys might've had a bad childhood, and it's not a not very good adulthood, by the looks of things. --Mick Foley to 'Robot Wars' contestants.

One for you, one for me, one for the Museum of Natural History!
Promote this thread!
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 581 days
Last activity: 50 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22

    Originally posted by humanmeal
    From WWE press release 09.24.02:

    "On March 29, 1987, 93,173 fans attended WrestleMania III at the Pontiac Silverdome - a world indoor attendance record that still stands today for any sports or entertainment event."



I guess restricting the record to a "sports or entertainment event" hides the fact that the Pope's January 1999 mass at the Trans World Dome (now the Edward Jones Dome) in St. Louis broke the former WWF's indoor attendance "record" by more than 10,000 people.

Steph



I'm going twenty-four hours a day...I can't seem to stop
- "Turn Up The Radio", Autograph
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
They're still pushing a phony 'record' based on an attendance figure at least 20,000 higher than actual attendees.
How do we know this again? Not that I'm disagreeing with you (yet), I just wanna know where you get your info.

Hell, they announced this 'record' before they even held the event!
I dont see what's so unbelievable about them announcing how many tickets they've sold before the actual event.

(And please, don't suggest 'advance ticket sales' as a potential explanation: no one this side of the Ben-gals has 20K no-shows.)
I dont understand what you're trying to say here at all.




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Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 529 days
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#4 Posted on
What's he's saying is that the 93,173 attendance number isn't true. Wrestlemania III drew about 78,000 people. They couldn't FIT 93,000. Pro wrestling events ALWAYS elevate their numbers.

The source, among others, is Dave Meltzer.





We're all mad here... I'm mad... You're mad...
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
I know he doesnt think the 93,173 is true, I got that. What I didnt understand was the part about the Ben-gals. Sounds like he was trying to draw some sort of comparison/analogy with the low-attendance numbers at Cincinati Bengals football games, but it totally lost me.

While we're at it, at the end, he implied that they bragged about the WM3 attendance figures because they have a stockholders meeting this week, like they brought it up to somehow make themselves look good in light of business being down lately. It seems pretty silly to me that of all the stuff they could use to brag about, they'd bring up a 15 year old attendance figure.



NOW you've done it
Take a picture, write it down.
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3259 days
Last activity: 2964 days
#6 Posted on
DJ, I think he was talking about the fact that the Begals sell a ton of tickets through season tickets and PSLs, but the people actually in the stands are alot less than the amount of tickets sold or something.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
smarkymcsmart
Haggis








Since: 6.6.02

Since last post: 3995 days
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#7 Posted on
Dave Meltzer's source on the WrestleMania 3 attendance is a man by the name of Zane Bresloff. He worked at the Silverdome when the show took place and would likely know how many people were there.

However, Bresloff later worked as coordinator of events for WCW. It was while working for WCW that he made the claim about WrestleMania's attendance.

Coincidence?
Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
Y!:
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by Stephanie

      Originally posted by humanmeal
      From WWE press release 09.24.02:

      "On March 29, 1987, 93,173 fans attended WrestleMania III at the Pontiac Silverdome - a world indoor attendance record that still stands today for any sports or entertainment event."



    I guess restricting the record to a "sports or entertainment event" hides the fact that the Pope's January 1999 mass at the Trans World Dome (now the Edward Jones Dome) in St. Louis broke the former WWF's indoor attendance "record" by more than 10,000 people.

    Steph


Any Saturday with college football at either Michigan or Tennessee will draw in excess of 100,000 fans. I think that there are 2 other college stadiums that also seat over 100,000 (and regularly do).



[It's where I sit]
canucklover
Pickled pork








Since: 16.7.02
From: Vancouver, BC

Since last post: 3517 days
Last activity: 3135 days
#9 Posted on
I think the WWF/E restricts their "record" to indoor sporting events. If we want to talk about large crowds, though, Maracana stadium in Rio De Janiero has sat upwards of 200,000 for soccer games and stadia like the Nou Camp and Bernabeau in Spain hold over 100,000 on a regular basis



"Emotional feedback on timeless wavelengths, bearing a gift beyond price- almost free" -- Rush
humanmeal
Mettwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: East Bay Area, California

Since last post: 4206 days
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#10 Posted on
First off, we're talking INDOOR records. You'll hear 'Rocky Top' over and over while looking at those bizarre end zones OUTDOORS.

On the two points that lead to some confusion (sorry!), I just meant that by the same token they didn't sell out the Silverdome to the quantity of 93,000, they also didn't SELL OUT (as I understand it, and sure Meltzer and Keith were where I got the basics of this), so there were walkups, so THEY COULDN'T KNOW they'd 'broken the record' PRIOR to the actual event, even if their count was accurate and they HAD broken the record.

Well, there's the telling detail, and then there's minutiae, and I may have gone a little over the line toward the latter with this post. I'll do better next time.



I think you guys might've had a bad childhood, and it's not a not very good adulthood, by the looks of things. --Mick Foley to 'Robot Wars' contestants.

One for you, one for me, one for the Museum of Natural History!
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 104 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#11 Posted on
Well, a quick check with the official Silverdome site:

Click Here

reveals the following information:

Capacity for football games: 80,325
Capacity for political rallies and religious crusades: 90,000

Now I would think that a wrestling ring wouldn't take up much more room, if any, than a stage for speeches. So figuring that all the football seats could be used, and with the addition of seating on the Silverdome floor, it's hard to imagine that capacity issues would have prevented 93,000 from attending.

Now, it wouldn't surprise me if Vince exaggerated the numbers. It's a very wrestling-like thing to do. I am also curious where this information has come from, because this is the second time just recently that I've seen someone claim this attendance number wasn't legit.

It sure looked like a lot of people to me, but 70,000 would be a lot of people. As far as the announcement goes, are you sure it wasn't more like "The WWF expects to break the indoor attendance record at Wrestlemania."? They could have well expected it based on pre-sold tickets and the amount of walkups they anticipated. Expecting something and saying it has happened is two different things. I'm just wondering, because an announcement such as I have stated above is quite common when someone thinks they are going to break some sort of record or milestone.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Sec19Row53

      Originally posted by Stephanie

        Originally posted by humanmeal
        From WWE press release 09.24.02:

        "On March 29, 1987, 93,173 fans attended WrestleMania III at the Pontiac Silverdome - a world indoor attendance record that still stands today for any sports or entertainment event."



      I guess restricting the record to a "sports or entertainment event" hides the fact that the Pope's January 1999 mass at the Trans World Dome (now the Edward Jones Dome) in St. Louis broke the former WWF's indoor attendance "record" by more than 10,000 people.

      Steph


    Any Saturday with college football at either Michigan or Tennessee will draw in excess of 100,000 fans. I think that there are 2 other college stadiums that also seat over 100,000 (and regularly do).




1 Michigan Stadium 107,501
2 Beaver Stadium 107,282
3 Neyland Stadium 104,079
4 Ohio Stadium 101,568



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 581 days
Last activity: 50 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22
    Originally posted by Sec19Row53

      Originally posted by Stephanie

        Originally posted by humanmeal
        From WWE press release 09.24.02:

        "On March 29, 1987, 93,173 fans attended WrestleMania III at the Pontiac Silverdome - a world indoor attendance record that still stands today for any sports or entertainment event."



      I guess restricting the record to a "sports or entertainment event" hides the fact that the Pope's January 1999 mass at the Trans World Dome (now the Edward Jones Dome) in St. Louis broke the former WWF's indoor attendance "record" by more than 10,000 people.

      Steph


    Any Saturday with college football at either Michigan or Tennessee will draw in excess of 100,000 fans. I think that there are 2 other college stadiums that also seat over 100,000 (and regularly do).



The key word is indoor, Sec19. Yes, those college stadiums seat more than 100,000 - but they're not indoors, are they? What I'm saying is that the Pope's *indoor* mass beat the WWF's *indoor* wrestling event by more than 10,000 people, making that mass the world *indoor* attendance record holder.

Steph

(edited by Stephanie on 25.9.02 2353)


I'm going twenty-four hours a day...I can't seem to stop

- "Turn Up The Radio", Autograph
Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
Y!:
#14 Posted on
You are correct, Stephanie. I missed the "indoor" part of the record.

With fear of sending this thread careening into "Politics", is the Pope part of either "Sports" or "Entertainment"?



[It's where I sit]
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 539 days
Last activity: 539 days
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by Sec19Row53
    You are correct, Stephanie. I missed the "indoor" part of the record.

    With fear of sending this thread careening into "Politics", is the Pope part of either "Sports" or "Entertainment"?







Well, some of the bishops that were with him might have been able to help Patterson out in Pontiac.



Thank you Mr. Wanz for the check, now you get an AWA World Title Reign. But be careful, my boy Greg is a heat machine.
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Booooooo.



NOW you've done it
Take a picture, write it down.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 472 days
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by Sec19Row53
    You are correct, Stephanie. I missed the "indoor" part of the record.

    With fear of sending this thread careening into "Politics", is the Pope part of either "Sports" or "Entertainment"?


Well, the pope doesn't seem like he's very good at sports, at least not anymore, but, IMO, he's quite entertaining! Driving around in his little popemobile, mumbling incomprehensibly, it's hilarious!



Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2086 days
Last activity: 1739 days
#18 Posted on
Come on it's pro wrestling. Did Andre really weigh 700 lbs? Does Jeff Hardy weigh 215 lbs? Was Goldberg really 190 and 0? Those things are "truths" that wrestling tells it's fans. Same with the Silverdome attendance "record".



I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
#19 Posted on
In "Tributes", Dave Meltzer's tidy little way of making money off the deaths of wrestlings greatest deceased stars since, the "wrestling companies ignore deaths". While that's true, is it any secret Meltz published this title close as possible to Owen Hart's death? Bah, that's not what this thread is about.

Anywho, this is a direct quote from Tributes, in the Andre the Giant section of the book, on Wrestlemania 3: "The Silverdome sold out two weeks in advance and it's no exaggeration that, if the building had been large enough, they could have put 125, 000 people in the dome that day."

Now if Meltz is writing this, why is he also countering with the statement that it was 78, 000 people instead of 93, 173? It is perfectly valid that this figure might be accurate, especially since they never lied about the 67, 678 at WM 6. Additionally, when you check with the venues themselves, and they confirm these figures, surely that's got to count for something. What does the Silverdome gain from lying about this figure fifteen years later? It's not as if the WWF ever came back there, or planned to. I seriously doubt venues themselves lie about attendance figures, and while they'd hardly correct WWE's boasts of attendances that were off by a thousand, they'd certainly have said SOMETHING in the last FIFTEEN YEARS about a discrepancy of 151 000 people.

Hogan V.S. Andre was drawing ratings that put even the 'golden age' of Austin's prime to shame. Saturday Night's Main Event, as a once monthly replacement for the then-(and again now)stale Satuday Night Live, drew ratings in the high 9's and low 10's literally for years. The last SNME before WM 3, which aired on March 14, 1987, drew an 11.6 rating. The Hogan/Andre rematch in 1988 drew at least an audience of ten million people. Keep in mind in these days, they'd run three house shows a night, with the tag-champs headlining one show, the IC champ headlining another, and Hogan and whoever he was against (whether or not he was the champ or was against the champ) headlining a third. All Hogan house shows would sell out, and the other two would always come close (particularly the IC ones with Honky Tonk on top) and they'd do this 2 or 3 days a week. Even in 1998 at the height of Austin mania, there's no way business was ever that good. When the WWE was saying business was better than ever in 1999 and 2000, they are comparing ratings (two shows drawing 5's and weekend shows each drawing 1'2 or 2's technically means "more ratings" in a corporate loophole sense) PPV's (more people buy 12 throughout a whole year than bought four throughout in the 80's) and merchendise (which was nowhere near as common or refined in the 80's as it is now). Those were all loopholes. Business was never better than in 1987. Granted, ppv quality matches were only seen once a month in those days, on SNME, as apposed to every week these days, so I suppose there are informational loopholes on both ends of the spectrum.

All the same, I believe the 93, 173.






"There once lived a man named Ray
Who suspected he just might be gay,
he got moist around males,
and he painted his nails,
but his ass-f*cking gave it away."
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2086 days
Last activity: 1739 days
#20 Posted on
Well, that is some pretty good arguements there. I can't think of a reason for the Silverdome to lie about it. And the WWF was bigger in 87 than it ever has been before. I don't know if they made more money but they certainly had better raitings. Of course what didn't 15 years ago?



I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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