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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE titles to be unified (again) (Page 2)
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Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 395 days
Last activity: 356 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
A (not so) brief history of WWE Titles

In 2001 during the WCW Invasion, there were the following titles in what was then the WWF:
WWF (Heavyweight) Championship
WWF Intercontinental Championship
WWF European Championship
WWF Tag Team Championship
WWF Hardcore Championship
WWF Light Heavyweight Championship
WCW World Heavyweight Championship
WCW Cruiserweight Championship
WCW United States Championship
WCW Tag Team Championship
Also Rhyno was referenced as both the last ECW Television Champion and the last ECW World Champion, but I don't believe he actually defended the title at any point.

The Light Heavyweight title held by X-Pac was quickly forgotten when he got injured and then left the company.

November 2001 at Survivor Series a bunch of WWF/WCW titles were unified. The WCW United States Championship was unified with the WWF Intercontinental Championship. The WCW Tag Team Championship was unified was the WWF Tag Team Championship.

Also, Team WWF won the main event at that Survivor Series. The WCW Heavyweight Championship was renamed the World Championship. The WCW Cruiserweight Championship became a WWF title.

The next month, the WWF Championship was unified with the World Championship. Chris Jericho was the first Undisputed Champion.

In May 2002, the World Wrestling Federation becomes World Wrestling Entertainment.

July 2002, the European and Intercontinental Championships are unified. A month later, the Hardcore and Intercontinental Championships are unified.

The Undisputed Championship lasted until August 2002 when Brock Lesnar decided that he would fight only on Smackdown. That championship became known as the WWE Championship once again.

On Raw, Triple H was presented with a new championship that looked exactly like the old World Championship/WCW Championship. It was called the World Heavyweight Championship. Whether you consider this a continuation of the World Championship or not is up to you. In the end it's pretty minor either way.

Shortly thereafter, the Intercontinental Championship is unified with the World Heavyweight Championship. This is probably the point where there were the least number of WWE Champions since the 90s (when the European and Hardcore Championships were created, and the Light Heavyweight Championship was brought back under company control). There was the WWE Championship, the World Heavyweight Championship, the Tag Team Championship, the Women's Championship, and the Cruiserweight Championship.

In October 2002, the WWE Tag Team Championship likewise became a Raw only title, and was renamed the World Tag Team Championship. Smackdown had a tournament to crown new champions, and they were called the WWE Tag Team Champions.

I'm not sure if the WWE quickly realized how much this sucked or what, because the Intercontinental Championship was brought back in March of 2003. The United States Championship likewise makes its return in July 2003.

In June 2006 the ECW brand is created / restored (depending on your perspective). Rob Van Dam is awarded the ECW Championship. This championship is initially considered the equal of the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships, but it eventually falls in stature.

The WWE Cruiserweight Championship is retired in March of 2008.

A second women's championship, the WWE Diva's Championship, is created in July of 2008.

In September 2008, Carlito and Primo unify the two Tag Team Championships.

Finally, the ECW Championship is retired in February 2010 when the ECW show goes off the air.

So the lesson to be learned is that there's no point being excited or disappointed about titles. In 3 years, they'll bring back the Cruiserweight Title or the United States Championship, or split the Tag Team championships again, or whatever.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.70
So, are they going to do what all other companies are doing these days and merge the rosters while cutting out a lot of the extras? Or will they just attempt to make the titles seem like a bigger deal when they show up on certain shows?

lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    So, are they going to do what all other companies are doing these days and merge the rosters while cutting out a lot of the extras? Or will they just attempt to make the titles seem like a bigger deal when they show up on certain shows?




Cut the fat. I do not want more people out of work in this economy, but it makes the most financial sense. WWE posted its worst Quarter either to date or for a very long time. Linda's campaign has already spent $22 million with a $30 million budget with 2 months to go before the real election where she is going to need to spend all of that to compete or get close. There maybe more money coming in, but she is a double digit underdog and I am sure the RNC would rather spend that money in a place where they have someone in the single digits. I am sure they will lend her money just not enough to make a difference. WWE is also losing revenue with NXT being canned as of October 1st unless they can sell it somewhere else. Even if they go with NXT being on WWE.com, they are going to lose revenue. Putting all of these belts together probably means we will see another large round of firings.

Jericho and probably most of the Nexus guys will be gone by the end of the year. I am sure most of the divas will get the axe as well as people like Santino. That leaves Edge, Cena, Orton, HHH, Taker, Kane, Sheamus and Rey as your world title contenders. I am sure they will move Miz up and maybe, maybe Wade Barrett. That is about ten guys which could eat up a few hours of TV time while keeping a few sections for the women and mid-card. That is if the injury bug doesn't claim them or out of the ring incidents don't can them. The belt will probably be re-casted as being a big deal while the rest of the belts will continue to used just like the tag belts are being used now. It will be interesting to see if any elevation occurs or just having those ten trade the belt around like a hot potato or we get another round of McMahon-Helmsley, Cenation or some other time when the champ doesn't lose the belt.

(edited by lotjx on 31.8.10 1551)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.64
WWE is still a huge touring company, and they run two separate tours concurrently. They need enough wrestlers for that. Even when the revenue streams are down (or in the case of PPV, way down), they're still profitable. They could go back to an "A" tour with the main stars and a smaller city "B" tour with the next tier down like they did pre-roster split, but Vince's belief when they split rosters was that appearing on two shows a week burns out the top talent faster, and if anything the top guys now are more susceptible to that than they were in 2001 since their main eventers have been entrenched for so long and are a dwindling commodity. WWE may pinch pennies and cut corners to make their bottom line look better to the stockholders, but I don't think they plan on becoming a smaller company anytime soon. Their goal is the opposite.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.22
Who's to say The Miz doesn't cash in his money in the bank match at WM when it's title holder vs title holder, pin both at the same time and unify the belts THAT way.
Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 405 days
Last activity: 134 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
One reason to keep the world titles seperate. It actually makes the Royal Rumble unpredictable.
ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 70 days
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    A (not so) brief history of WWE Titles

    [...]

    Also Rhyno was referenced as both the last ECW Television Champion and the last ECW World Champion, but I don't believe he actually defended the title at any point.




You're correct in saying that Rhyno never defended the ECW World Championship or the ECW Television Championship on WWF television... nor did he even display those titles.

A few more addendums, however: After ECW Champion Mike Awesome's defection to WCW in 2000, after which he dropped the title to WWF Superstar Taz (a WCW guy and WWF guy competing on an ECW show for the ECW Title), Tazz soon afterward wrestled in a match in the WWF against WWF Champion Triple H. Tazz came out wearing the ECW Title for that non-title bout, which was won by Triple H.

(This was shortly after Triple H defeated Chris Benoit in the latter's WWF debut, and of course, Benoit was last seen in WCW winning the championship.)

Mike Awesome never appeared on WCW television with the ECW Championship belt.

When WCW was bought by the WWF in March of 2001, one current and two vacant titles weren't carried over. Rey Mysterio and Billy Kidman defeated Elix Skipper and Kid Romeo for the Cruiserweight Tag Team Titles on the final episode of Nitro, and the belts were never seen again, nor ever mentioned on WWF television. (The title reign is acknowledged on Mysterio's current WWE Superstar page, however).

The WCW Hardcore Title was most recently won by Meng on January 14, 2001, but when he returned to the WWF as Haku at the 2001 Royal Rumble, the title was abandoned.

The WCW World Television Title was last held by "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan, and presumably vacated when Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff vacated all the titles on April 15, 2000, though Duggan wasn't present for that event and wasn't specifically mentioned. No new champion was ever crowned, and in any event Duggan didn't actually "win" the title in the first place; he found it in a dumpster in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania 2 1/2 months after Scott Hall threw it into a trash can in Toronto. I am not making this up.

    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo


    The WCW Cruiserweight Championship became a WWF title.



True, but it took a few months for the physical title belt to be changed to its WWF/WWE design. For awhile they kept using the WCW design; in fact it was even used in one of the SmackDown video games.

(edited by ekedolphin on 31.8.10 1904)


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AlbySure
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Since: 10.12.01
From: LA

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    WHAT DOES THIS MEAN for the new concept of double Money in the Banks.

    It means ... there won't be that.


The thought of no more double Elimination Chambers has me :(.
OndaGrande
Kolbasz








Since: 1.5.03
From: California, Home of THE LAKERS!

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.32

For the Women's & Diva's titles this makes sense because a) the roster of female talent is severely depleted and b) WWE doesn't care enough about the Divas to bother booking them well anyway. The only downside I see is that with the Women's Championship currently existing in broken form, the horrible butterfly belt will likely end up being the Title. From a marketing perspective I can understand doing so in that the women are after all "Divas", but this to me is a case of elevating the lesser (although supposedly equal) of the two belts. The upside is that it serves to keep some card depth to the entire division overall as Rosa and Kelly have become by default the only contenders to the Women's Title.

As far as the men's side, there is cause to have a singular recognized champion as well as tag-team champions. But if the current two shows / two rosters concept continues, then the mid-card title should either "float" as well or keep them both with the I.C. Title on Raw (the "A" show) and U.S. Title on Smackdown.



LEARN IT, KNOW IT, LIVE IT!
The Game
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Since: 5.5.09

Since last post: 324 days
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.35
After all this time, I think I would be really happy to have all the belts unified and add some prestige to the world title belts but right now, it is very interesting....

I can see perhaps where the both world titles could be unified as there is really only a small percentage of legit wrestlers who should hold the world title.

However, the mid-card is getting pretty good again and one title may hold some others back further. Wade Barrett has solidified himself as a good future main-eventer but is not there at least not all the way yet. Would Jack Swagger be another mid-carder or will the WWE put him in the world title hunt? Some of the guys besides Barrett would make pretty good IC or US title contenders. There are obviously more mid-carders to talk about but the mid-card is getting good for the first time in awhile and I guess we will see if one belt would be good for this area.

The others I have no problem with. The Women's (who really cares about that?), the WWE title (I assume if they unify all the titles that they will keep the WWE title or something similar to it).

Overall though, I am glad at the idea to potentially have all titles unified but on the flipside, does this mean other wrestlers will get lost in the shuffle?
Alex
Bratwurst








Since: 24.2.02

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.93
I'm almost wondering if this isn't their contingency plan should Smackdown fail to get much better ratings than ECW or NXT and get canceled.
Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 405 days
Last activity: 134 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by Alex
    I'm almost wondering if this isn't their contingency plan should Smackdown fail to get much better ratings than ECW or NXT and get canceled.


Bingo.

There's a definate danger of it happening. NXT started well, but dropped below what ECW was doing despite being a fresh concept. Smackdown will obviously have more star power, but the WWE SyFy shows now have a stigma of being unimportant to a lot of fans.
beefncheddar
Linguica








Since: 16.2.04
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC

Since last post: 138 days
Last activity: 138 days
#33 Posted on
Maybe I'm just an old-school NWA fan, but I could go for unifying all the major titles, while creating singles TV titles for Raw and Smackdown.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.14
    Originally posted by beefncheddar
    Maybe I'm just an old-school NWA fan, but I could go for unifying all the major titles, while creating singles TV titles for Raw and Smackdown.


I agree with you ... but rather than have two TV titles, just leave it at the IC & US titles ... therefore you still have the lineage of those titles, rather than creating a new title history.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
      Originally posted by Alex
      I'm almost wondering if this isn't their contingency plan should Smackdown fail to get much better ratings than ECW or NXT and get canceled.


    Bingo.

    There's a definate danger of it happening. NXT started well, but dropped below what ECW was doing despite being a fresh concept. Smackdown will obviously have more star power, but the WWE SyFy shows now have a stigma of being unimportant to a lot of fans.


I would also expect HHH, Cena, Orton or Edge to go to Smackdown to give it some more star power. Rey maybe back in time, but they need another star in there just to push the ratings. Smackdown has been on a number of networks from UPN to CW to MyTV now to Syfy, I think we are seeing the limit on where it could go. If it gets canned from here which I kinda dout since I think they can at least pull in a 2.0, but if it does then you will see panic.

Even with Justin's very good analysis, I do think we will see a combination of both shows. If Vince wanted to protect the roster, he would cut back on the touring. The WWE has been to Hershey twice this year once for a three hour Raw and another for a Smackdown. There is no need to come here more then once a year and if they want to come again in that year give us a PPV. We had Unforgiven one year then they did Edge's Live Sex, got kicked out for awhile then back after a year suspension. I am not saying do it for every town, but do they really need to go to the same place twice a a year with the same show at what point does it become mundane. I get tickets for free, if I didn't I probably would have skipped Smackdown.

Overseas is great for them like China, Japan and England. But, when does it get mundane for those people as well? Not for awhile, but I would love to see an analysis of attendance in the last five years. Plus, we are dealing with a global economic crisis. Its not just at home, but all over the place, so I am wondering if the overseas is really bringing in a lot of cash or just the only profitable thing they have now beside the ad buys from TV.


I do think maybe not this year, but probably sometime after Mania next year if they continue to have bad profits, they will combine the roster. It helps Smackdown get more star power, it creates the feel of the titles being important again since there isn't a bunch of them around as well as limiting who has them and lastly, it frees up money even with as little as some of the guys are making. I am not saying WWE is going to go bankrupt that is ridiculous argument, but they can't keep having bad quarters in a row. If the trend continues, I do think Vince will close ranks especially if Linda loses the campaign they just sunk $30 million with no result.

(edited by lotjx on 1.9.10 0743)
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
Foreign markets still go crazy for WWE shows. And I can't understand thinking that two shows a year is overkill.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 405 days
Last activity: 134 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
        Originally posted by Alex
        I'm almost wondering if this isn't their contingency plan should Smackdown fail to get much better ratings than ECW or NXT and get canceled.


      Bingo.

      There's a definate danger of it happening. NXT started well, but dropped below what ECW was doing despite being a fresh concept. Smackdown will obviously have more star power, but the WWE SyFy shows now have a stigma of being unimportant to a lot of fans.


    I would also expect HHH, Cena, Orton or Edge to go to Smackdown to give it some more star power. Rey maybe back in time, but they need another star in there just to push the ratings. Smackdown has been on a number of networks from UPN to CW to MyTV now to Syfy, I think we are seeing the limit on where it could go. If it gets canned from here which I kinda dout since I think they can at least pull in a 2.0, but if it does then you will see panic.

    Even with Justin's very good analysis, I do think we will see a combination of both shows. If Vince wanted to protect the roster, he would cut back on the touring. The WWE has been to Hershey twice this year once for a three hour Raw and another for a Smackdown. There is no need to come here more then once a year and if they want to come again in that year give us a PPV. We had Unforgiven one year then they did Edge's Live Sex, got kicked out for awhile then back after a year suspension. I am not saying do it for every town, but do they really need to go to the same place twice a a year with the same show at what point does it become mundane. I get tickets for free, if I didn't I probably would have skipped Smackdown.

    Overseas is great for them like China, Japan and England. But, when does it get mundane for those people as well? Not for awhile, but I would love to see an analysis of attendance in the last five years. Plus, we are dealing with a global economic crisis. Its not just at home, but all over the place, so I am wondering if the overseas is really bringing in a lot of cash or just the only profitable thing they have now beside the ad buys from TV.


    I do think maybe not this year, but probably sometime after Mania next year if they continue to have bad profits, they will combine the roster. It helps Smackdown get more star power, it creates the feel of the titles being important again since there isn't a bunch of them around as well as limiting who has them and lastly, it frees up money even with as little as some of the guys are making. I am not saying WWE is going to go bankrupt that is ridiculous argument, but they can't keep having bad quarters in a row. If the trend continues, I do think Vince will close ranks especially if Linda loses the campaign they just sunk $30 million with no result.

    (edited by lotjx on 1.9.10 0743)


That all makes sense, but this is WWE we're talking about. Smackdown has always been treated as the B Show to RAW. How many times has HHH been drafted to Smackdown only to be back on Raw within a month? The policy for the last few years seems to be "Undertaker is enough star power for them".
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Foreign markets still go crazy for WWE shows. And I can't understand thinking that two shows a year is overkill.


Its not overkill as much as it is fans going "Eh". Plus, its twice a year every year. When Raw first came to the Giant Center, the place was packed, but even the three hour Raw which was hyped locally for a month, got only a decent turn out mostly kids. Every show even the occasional house show, the audience seems to get smaller. Now it may have more to do with the economy, but you can tell the vibe isn't what it used to be for the show.

(edited by lotjx on 1.9.10 0829)
Texas Kelly
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

I'm still of the opinion that each show needs their own primary and secondary title. You're going to have way too many guys get lost in the mix otherwise, or have way too many title changes in order to accommodate everyone's pushes.

Combining the tag titles and women's titles is fine, but I'd stop there if I were them.



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While the switch from Cena to RVD should alleviate some complaints, the inevitability of the belt's return to Cena (note where Summerslam is this year) and the poor initial showing by the new ECW are enough to keep the indicator where it is for now. The pieces are in place, though, especially on RAW, for improvements to be made to the IWC's psyche in the near future.
miknight
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Since: 22.10.02
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#40 Posted on
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    One reason to keep the world titles seperate. It actually makes the Royal Rumble unpredictable.


much agreement. Even if the winners aren't always a complete surprise it's still less predictable this way.

And agreement on the IC and US championships needing to stay. They may not be in the best shape now but any decent stretch of good matches and feuds over half a year and they're re-glorified. And Dolph can easily have a string of good matches, while if any of Miz's feuds had contained a mention of the US title it'd already be in good shape.



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This is a really great gesture and it's certainly important research for WWE, and any high-impact sports organization, to be supporting. But, $1.2 million over 3 years is chump change when it comes to this sort of research.
Related threads: Skip Sheffield breaks his ankle. - WWE karaoke week on Lopez Tonight - Tiffany arrested, suspended indefinitely suspended, more than likely to be released - More...
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