You know, I actually kinda like Cena, but I'll agree that his booking has been pretty bad. The only guy that's been booked as a solid threat to his title is Angle, and even then they've got the Cena defeats all odds thing going. From just prior to his title win through his move to RAW, Cena was red hot. Now, he's cooling down something fierce, and they need to get some heat back on him. This was the perfect time to do the title change. Angle wins because he has his own cheating ref, and Cena totally has grounds for a rematch. You have Bishoff tell him no and run him through the Royal Rumble. This is classic booking that would've made Cena compelling again, but they just left him hanging out there.
Originally posted by Tenken347You know, I actually kinda like Cena, but I'll agree that his booking has been pretty bad. The only guy that's been booked as a solid threat to his title is Angle, and even then they've got the Cena defeats all odds thing going. From just prior to his title win through his move to RAW, Cena was red hot. Now, he's cooling down something fierce, and they need to get some heat back on him. This was the perfect time to do the title change. Angle wins because he has his own cheating ref, and Cena totally has grounds for a rematch. You have Bishoff tell him no and run him through the Royal Rumble. This is classic booking that would've made Cena compelling again, but they just left him hanging out there.
I somewhat agree with you on that point, but I think the bigger issue is that Creative really needs to sit down to re-evaluate and/or tweak Cena's character before any other action can be taken. Taking the title off him would only be a temporary fix; it still might not fix the problem of a crowd going 50/50 (and in some cases 80/20 for Angle).
Now, whether this is solely because of the character's booking or the ringwork is tough to say. However, with Cena getting booed like he did during that skit backstage last week at RAW, I'm tempted to say that a good amount of the animosity is being directed towards the character as a whole.
Originally posted by Hogan's My DadNow, my point is not that Cena is amazingly awesome, but merely that his reign has been a far cry from a failure. Some sprinkled boos here and there don't taint the whole thing. In fact, Shawn Michaels got much of the same during his run in '96, which drew lower TV ratings and PPV buys, and probably moved less merchandise. It would have been more noticeable then if RAW had gone live every week, but it really came across on PPVs. Especially Survivor Series, where an MSG CROWD was dying for Sid to win the strap.
As someone who absolutely HATED Shawn Michaels' 1996 run, I'm hard-pressed to find out why Cena is being pegged into the same category as him. Or, why the "teeny-boppers" seem to like Cena, which generally causes people to hate any face, no matter how well they are marketed.
Unlike Michaels, who rubbed his ass in people's faces and wore sparkley hearts on his tights while wearing berets, Cena comes across a lot less flamboyant. Despite his success, Cena is still very green and I think a title loss to Angle would have helped that in the same way Bret losing to Yokozuna helped poise him to win at WMX.
Certainly, Michaels was a better wrestler, but that didn't save his face run.
Cena just needs to work more on his promos. I didn't see his segment on Monday, but it sounds like he needs more "development time". I don't think adding more rapping is going to help, but I'm one of those people that's glad he dropped the "Genius" thing. It's okay, occasionally, but I don't think that's what his character should be based around.
We need to know WHY he wants to be the champion, and the JBL feud helped with that, but now that he's settled in, I think he lost some of his fire. That's why he should probably drop the title around now, but win it back relatively soon at WM22.
Originally posted by Hogan's My DadAnd I love Kurt, but I'll say this. I have NO problem with a long run with a face Champion. There is whole nihilistic element to the shows over the past few years that has been removed by having long-term face Champions. This fiction that it's only compelling to see a face chase the title is pure fiction. A man of the people holding onto his prize and successfully defending it against all comers IS compelling.
Fully agreed. People don't realize that there's two basic stories in wrestling: The Chase and The Challenge. People are too focused on The Chase aspect, but The Challenge is just as compelling.
Which match still holds the WWF/WWE indoor attendance record (depending on which records you believe)? Hogan vs Andre. Where a face not only was defending his title, but was also successful at defending it.
Whether or not a face champion can hold onto the title, especially once they've held the title past Survivor Series as Cena and Batista both have, is compelling TV. They could drop it at any moment now, or they could be walking into WM22 as champ.
Overall, SS sounded pretty mediocre. No title changes, nothing of real significance (except that Team SD actually won, as they should have, but Rey should have been sole survivor). HHH/Flair sounded pretty well done, though.
I was at the event last night. It was pretty fun being there live. The Cena/Angle thing is exactly what it seemed. Little kids and girls cheering for Cena and all the guys for Angle. It got really loud and fun. The Bischoff/Long match IMMEDIATELY got boring chants and one of the biggest pops was with The Boogyman's music hit. He saved that match.
I took a few pictures. Some turned out better than others. Some are pretty crappy. A few are pretty interesting because I took my picture at the same time as about 1000 other people, so the ring is just a big white flash and you can just make out the people inside it. It makes for a pretty cool and interesting effect. Here are my pictures: http://www.thebananaconvention.com/survivorseries
And in somewhat scary news, William Regal appeared to have gotten a stinger from the tombstone he took from The Undertaker. After everything was done and Lillian thanked us all for coming, the lights came on and he wasn't moving. I don't know if he was just selling for the in arena crowd, but he laid motionless in the ring for a good 15 minutes after the event had ended. Birchill was right at his head talking to him and looked very concerned. Jim Korderas and Nick Patrick also stayed with him during this time. Tazz, Michael Cole, and Joey Styles stayed ringside watching for about 5 minutes before heading to the back. While walking to the back, Joey Styles kept looking back to the ring to see what was going on. After probably 10 minutes, Regal started moving. He was shaking his arms and smacking his hands as if he were trying to regain the feeling in them. He eventually got up under his own power and was helped with walking to the back by Birchall.
Now, again, I don't know if he was just putting on a show for the live crowd, but it seemed awfully real. The only thing that made me think it wasn't too serious is that no medics or anything came from the back and the ring crew started taking down the ring ropes and such while he was still laying there. It seems like something Regal would do to put over the move to just the live crowd and just to pull a rib on us. If he was just selling, he was doing a hell of a job.
Originally posted by SKLOKAZOIDFully agreed. People don't realize that there's two basic stories in wrestling: The Chase and The Challenge. People are too focused on The Chase aspect, but The Challenge is just as compelling.
I might be more forgiving of the Cena booking if it wasn't so much like that when Austin had the belt and had to fend off McMahon's hired goons: Mankind, Patterson, Brisco, and Slaughter. This is an elevated level of Challenge: the Weekly Corporate Gauntlet.
Also, you don't hook Angle up with a special heel ref, a censored crowd chant, a still-lethal finisher (the Anglelock grapevine), and AGAIN keep the belt off of him. The more resilient you make Cena appear, the more incompetent Angle becomes.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
What about turning Cena heel while he's champion? Granted, it doesn't help that Angle is still in the picture, but now's a good time as any to start moving this direction, since we're heading toward an Elimination Chamber eventually.
I just don't see the heel turn happening though. Cena sells too much merch. Period.
And while I don't actually watch WWE any more and haven't in 3 months, I wouldn't have any new interest in watching the same old storyline of Cena losing the belt, being denied a shot, finding a way to get into the Rumble, winning it, and getting a shot at Wrestlemania. Can we please get a new storyline which we haven't seen at least 10 times before?
Not even have we seen it ten times before, but it seems ten times in the last ten years.
I agree that Cena's staying a face, so either he loses the title to Angle just to do what we just said we never want to see again, or else he stays champion and has Triple H chase after him now. Triple H can win the Rumble, kill Cena at every turn while yelling about how he'll send Cena back to the midcard (hey, fans would buy those promos in a second) and fans can get WM to see if Cena can hold him off.
It's something new(ish), and if Cena's got to stay face, Triple H might be the only opponent able to face Cena without having fans cheer him. Best case scenario is of course they dump the "Winner Faces the Champion" rule for the Rumble, since that's done more harm than good to winter booking, but fat chance of that happening.
I was a fan of Cena early on in his rapping character. His raps on the way to the ring (especially on Los Guerreros) were edgy and very funny. Since turning face, all he does is pander to the crowd, and frankly that's boring. Before he used to do his own thing and try to shock the crowd. Now he makes sure he hits all his spots during the match and recite a few sayings.
He isn't dynamic anymore. He's very similar to Ric Flair or the Rock. He can play face, but who the hell wants him to?
So now that Angle has renounced the fans and America, and now that WWE is pairing up Angle with Daivari...does this mean WWE is going to make Angle into their new Muhammed Hassan? Or essentially the next anti-American heel?
I was thinking during the match that the name is really starting to handicap the guy. At first he made little noise and didn't seem to have much staying power. He was even suspended not long after his debut.