-Randy Orton has been booked as one of the few on the Raw roster to not look like an idiot consistently week after week. Since he's the only one getting a reaction, a face turn is needed. -Mark Henry has become a monster heel by destroying Big Show and sending him to the injured list. -Ryback is destroying schmucks in 30 seconds. -Vince McMahon is teasing a power struggle with son-in-law Triple H. -John Cena seeks to Rise Above Hate against the Heel Authority Figure of the Month.
They may not be able to sell a Network, but The E certainly has mastered time travel, because I could swear we're in 2011 right now.
"Playing guitars. It's hard to sing while playing...guitars."
I wish the default setting for so many of you wasn't "let's find a way to be as snarky and dismissive as possible." Half of your post doesn't make sense - Orton last turned face in February 2010 and Ryback didn't debut until April 2012.
This was a really good show. Their best in a long time. And with Cena absent. Surely a coincidence!
Vince McMahon getting and being old depresses me a little.
Solid show where some actual stakes (some not totally explained) were set and people had emotions.
Randy Orton loose cannon could be a lot of fun if they resist the urge to have him slime people and pull other goofy pranks. I worry a little about how he a Ambrose coexist, but tonight I enjoyed him.
Hot ending. Rollins has been a good pretend champion while Brock has been away.
I really wanted to see Rusev vs Sheamus, but that's too much to ask at that hour and after a 3 hour and 15 minute Raw and I'm a huge Rusev fan. Too bad that match had to follow the best ending in months instead of one of the many John Cena rise above the odds endings.
Is this Raw worth watching from my DVR? Some of the recent ones didn't appear to be after reading the online reviews and were deleted without watching.
HHH certainly took the news about the one-sided Survivor Series stipulation well. I was under the impression the power was split three ways, and that he and Steph could just veto such a crazy idea. Must have missed something. I would gladly pay $1.99 a minute for the WWE Hotline to hear David Otunga explain the legal machinations that led to this match. ("HHH absolutely does have the power to cancel the stip, so clearly he's cool with it. Which makes no sense. There's only one explanation: Cena must be in the Authority's back pocket. Heel turn imminent. Please subscribe?")
Had to laugh at Sheamus & the Uso's hilariously botching each of their 'bad-ass' spots, managing to come across as a bunch of douchebags & getting rightfully booed for it. lol
Both are variations on Cena & thus have the same fans, & will never get bad-ass pops, ever.
Originally posted by HeimsHHH certainly took the news about the one-sided Survivor Series stipulation well. I was under the impression the power was split three ways, and that he and Steph could just veto such a crazy idea. Must have missed something. I would gladly pay $1.99 a minute for the WWE Hotline to hear David Otunga explain the legal machinations that led to this match. ("HHH absolutely does have the power to cancel the stip, so clearly he's cool with it. Which makes no sense. There's only one explanation: Cena must be in the Authority's back pocket. Heel turn imminent. Please subscribe?")
He didn't take it well at all. Hence the night-long storyline of them desperately trying to pick the strongest team possible and he and Stephanie discussing not panicking. He put on a front when it was first announced, but that was pulled back almost immediately in the backstage stuff.
And it's always been about them keeping Vince onside. Look at the last few times Vince appeared with them late last year - it's been about HHH and Steph convincing him that they're doing the right thing, right from when Hunter screwed Daniel Bryan at SummerSlam. It's never been a question that Vince could come back and throw a spanner in the works if he felt like it.
Apparently being a babyface is being a "variation on Cena" now. Sheamus is good. The Usos are great. This schadenfreude directed at performers who work hard, have great matches and are over is bizarre.
Originally posted by steven87gillHad to laugh at Sheamus & the Uso's hilariously botching each of their 'bad-ass' spots, managing to come across as a bunch of douchebags & getting rightfully booed for it. lol
How can you mention that yet ignore the cheers received by Kane for tripping over a prone Randy Orton at the end of the show??
A small part of me wonders if he did that on purpose.
Pretty wild how last week's Raw thread and the follow-up threads forced them to pull John Cena off television! What have we done?
Last night's main event segments were proof of how much more interesting a motivated, properly utilized Orton can be than the moribund Cena we're usually stuck with. The difference between them when booked at the top is simple: something is going to happen when Orton is out there. There is actual tension because Orton is going to do something. The best parts of the early and closing segments were the building anticipation from the crowd as Orton walks the line between bored corporate guy and MADMAN WHO HATES PANTS AND HATES MONITORS AND YELLS AT THE CROWD.
I'm as tired of the Authority as anyone, but holy shit, how much better was HHH trying to calm down a guy he knows is insane because Randy Orton is The Greatest Survivor Series Participant Of All-Time while Orton's fuse gets shorter and shorter vs. the multiple "John, be a bad guy now!" "NOOOOO!" segments? There's the old Hitchock anecdote about how suspense is showing the audience a bomb in a suitcase under the table and then keeping them wating to see if it goes off. Relative to Cena, Orton is that, only he's going to yell at the people watching the movie before he puts someone through that table, and also he probably already shit in that briefcase.
I say it a lot, but they really blew it by not having Peak Insanity Orton go over HHH in '09. Completely unhinged, no-alignment Orton still being out there and the McMahons having to go to him as the only guy left to take on a Nexus that had beaten the WWE All-Stars at SummerSlam and forced John Cena into servitude would have been huge.
Anyway, back to what makes Orton work where Cena doesn't, it's that excitement that's generated from tension and expectation that something's actually going to happen this time, and it got me thinking about what the company actually gets wrong on the macro level: they've lost sight of how people are engaged with pop culture today. For a company that's so obsessed with social media - the constant mention of trending, the Tout era (and give them at least some credit , they were actually slightly ahead of the Vine curve there, they just didn't know how to implement it and instead drove it into the ground) - they really have no idea how it works. They seem to think someone can just say "Make it go viral!" and that works, and so you get them paying some cheerleaders to record themselves "Fandangoing" like that automatically makes it a thing instead of helping kill it.
But meme-based pop culture is driven by discovery (or at least the illusion of it), of people getting behind something seemingly random and getting to feel they chose to make it a thing. And the current system of going all in on the main event program and making it so that one guy is important and everyone else is worthless makes it nearly impossible to have a viewer get behind some other thing and be motivated to share it and draw in new viewers. Punk's pipebomb had that appeal: it led to wrestling starting to get mentions in media outlets that seemingly had no interest in the product, but instead ferreted out the lapsed fans who were dying to talk about it again. Sandow is the only act on the undercard right now who feels like he's doing something that could catch on, so I'm curious to see where they go with that.
I do think putting Sheamus/Rusev and the title switch on the Network - while annoying to not have on a three hour show - is a smart move. It doesn't always have to be a title change, but making the Network have new, vital content that people want to see has to help. If they were smart, though, they'd realize it's kind of a closed loop and provide ways for people to share easily-digested parts of it online, like some way to make gifs or short videos of cheap, easily produced things like spots in an archived match or those backstage/post-show interviews that feel less scripted and show off the charisma of their talent.
Anyway, I really liked crazy-ass Orton and conflicted, pragmatic HHH. I loved Rollins getting the clean win - it's honestly splitting hairs, but the backslide into the pin felt like a more "real" win than the standard roll-up, and that was the perfect ending where Orton looked great but Rollins actually seemed completely on his level and it played into Rollins' reputation as the guy smart enough to beat any opponent. Really felt like the first time Rollins was an actual main eventer, and his work and character are on the cusp of recapturing the vibe they had when he and Bryan were the guys doing all the heavy lifting on the show every week in those Shield match glory days. The only negative to the whole thing is that it reminds me of how much I'd actually like to see an Orton/Brock match or even a Rollins/Brock match when we're probably never getting either. I will, however, settle for an Orton/Rollins rematch where Rollins keeps BAMF'ing around the arena and Orton keeps appearing from Out Of Nowhere to try to RKO him. It should be a Falls Count In Any Dimension match.
Less love for the Wyatt segment. The lights were off long enough and Bray was, like, seven feet from the exit. It really wasn't that mysterious or spooky, ya know?
Judgment still out on Erick Rowan: Inappropriate Street Harasser. Reminds me that, when the Mizdow angle is done, I want Miz to start wearing his dumb hats again and rebrand himself as a Miz Rights Activist complaining about how society is holding him down.
Hey, where was Cena, anyway? I'm not complaining about him not being there, but they should address that, since it accidentally makes him look like kind of a creep for leaving Ziggler hung out to dry.
I tuned into the last 15 minutes or so for the first time in a LONG time. Enjoyed the match between Rollins and Orton. But, is the Curb Stomp REALLY supposed to be a devastating move? I mean, Rollins doesn't have Mark Henry's bulk. Not buying that one at all. What am I missing?
Originally posted by Sec19Row53Dr. Unlikely - nice recap/chain of thoughts.
I tuned into the last 15 minutes or so for the first time in a LONG time. Enjoyed the match between Rollins and Orton. But, is the Curb Stomp REALLY supposed to be a devastating move? I mean, Rollins doesn't have Mark Henry's bulk. Not buying that one at all. What am I missing?
Fuck Reigns. Randy for the Brockstopper with no absence of malice.
Agreed on the good show rarity with a show-long angle executed tremendously. H's reluctance then resignation to putting a bullet in Orton was outstanding, as was Randy taking counsel from the Voices In His Head and ultimately deciding to go to the place where he hears them.
Deauthorization is a good hook to save Survivor Series even if very alarmingly smacked of when Vince came out in '01 and randomly said "btw the loser of this match will be dissolved. yup, the end of WWF or WCW. ok."
I believe Orton has been written out of the match and the PPV, so your teams are...
Cena/Dolph/Ryback(great friend of Cena)/Big Show/and I guess Sheamus vs. Rollins/Kane/Henry/Rusev/you'd think HHH would want to compete to keep himself in power but probably not enough to work this low level show.
Sheamus and Rusev each working before a special U.S. title match because it was too late to reformat the show was bush league. but props to the great Teej for picking up the win.
I am disappoint they seem to be going to a tag fourway and not a tag Survivors.
Hogan tweeted last night to lament Rusev's win -- and called for John Cena to rescue the US Title. I know people here have long feared the Cena would be the one to end Rusev's undefeated streak, but would they put a secondary title on Cena at this point?
Surprisingly accurate factoid from Cole last night regarding Sheamus: He's NEVER tapped out/submitted in WWE. Given how few and far between his losses have been(until recently), that's probably true. Even in the best-of-three-falls match he had with Mr. Brie Bella a couple of years ago, he passed out in the Yes Lock for one of the falls.
Originally posted by steven87gillHad to laugh at Sheamus & the Uso's hilariously botching each of their 'bad-ass' spots, managing to come across as a bunch of douchebags & getting rightfully booed for it. lol
How can you mention that yet ignore the cheers received by Kane for tripping over a prone Randy Orton at the end of the show??
A small part of me wonders if he did that on purpose.
Has anyone added an RKO to this yet? ORTONCEPTION.
I believe Orton has been written out of the match and the PPV, so your teams are...
Cena/Dolph/Ryback(great friend of Cena)/Big Show/and I guess Sheamus vs. Rollins/Kane/Henry/Rusev/you'd think HHH would want to compete to keep himself in power but probably not enough to work this low level show.
Originally posted by HokienauticHogan tweeted last night to lament Rusev's win -- and called for John Cena to rescue the US Title. I know people here have long feared the Cena would be the one to end Rusev's undefeated streak, but would they put a secondary title on Cena at this point?
Cena going full circle and trying to restore glory to the championship of this nation he represented in 2004 is just a straight up good idea. Let my title spin free! Any idea that conceives of treating the U.S. and IC champs as more than frequent clean losers of non-title matches is folly (thus making Rusev the true irresistible force holding the immovable object) but it is funny that we were one RKOoutofnowhere! from putting those belts on Rollins and Rusev in the same night.
Originally posted by Sec19Row53Dr. Unlikely - nice recap/chain of thoughts.
I tuned into the last 15 minutes or so for the first time in a LONG time. Enjoyed the match between Rollins and Orton. But, is the Curb Stomp REALLY supposed to be a devastating move? I mean, Rollins doesn't have Mark Henry's bulk. Not buying that one at all. What am I missing?
Try it and get back to us.
Sure. I could try a vertical suplex and it would hurt like hell too, but I'm not buying a vertical suplex as a finisher, either.
What was the crowd chanting for halway thru the show, then they all got up and cheered? Looked like they were looking about five rows up over the announcers left shoulders. Cena was taken off the show for something else last week. Now, we get Randy being off for a couple of weeks to film The Condemned 2, hopfully showing up at SS to RKO OUTTA NOWHERE Rollins so they lose and The Authority is gone. Speaking of which, wha happens if Team Cena wins? Does the crowd start hating on Ziggler? Loved the crowd cheering tripping Kane.
Originally posted by Sec19Row53Sure. I could try a vertical suplex and it would hurt like hell too, but I'm not buying a vertical suplex as a finisher, either.
Did you buy Booker T's scissors kick? Because compared to that, the Curb Stomp is sizably more vicious.
I'm bored with it, and Seth winning the title shot on Raw did nothing to help. Now if they threw it at somebody random - Big E or Cesaro - it could have been an intriguing SummerSlam match. But Brock & Seth again? Meh.