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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE Raw 11/20/12 #1017, Punk day #366
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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    AJ the person is very talented, but this is going to get worse before it gets better.


Sup.

Punk's celebration was swell. People are going to complain when Cena gets the title shot in that Ion main event eight years from now. With as good a job they're doing with the growing number, I still kind of think they gotta go full monte, have him get past Rock, and do 500 day reign vs. The Streak. Either way, Rock vs. Punk is going to be a big deal.

Sheamus vs. Sandow may have been longer than Punk's entire title reign.

Hell No vs. ReySin was a bit of fun but them in a TLC with the PTPs is a bit less fun than a TLC with Team GayKidd.

AJ's hustle, loyalty, and respect is going to grate, but to her and their credit they have a real Wrestlemania untouched dream match waiting in the wings. We on the road to the AJ vs. Eve collision course for the divas' title ::points at pink, glittery Wrestlemania sign::

Wouldn't it have been cool if Vickie was AJ's NXT pro instead of Kaitlyn's? It'd be like me and all my the-w NXT3 buddies were watching a very important prologue back then.
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 32 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37



ReTweeted by David Otunga. (twitter.com) My work tonight is done.

(edited by John Orquiola on 19.11.12 2239)


@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 2 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
Oof, just two posts in the Raw thread six hours after the show ends. That's not a good sign.

Titus (and, to a lesser extent, Young) were a riot on colour commentary.

I am fully onboard Shapiro's idea that Punk should keep the belt past the RR to set up Title vs. Streak at WM29. The crazy thing is, you could still make a case for Punk holding onto the belt past Mania, since obviously Undertaker isn't sticking around for regular title defenses and having him immediately drop the belt back to Punk or someone at Extreme Rules would cheapen things somewhat.

If my math is correct, WM29 would be the 503rd day of Punk's reign. It'd still be "only" the sixth-longest reign ever with no realistic chance of going any higher on the all-time list (Morales is fifth at 1027 days), which is kind of too bad given how "sixth-longest reign ever" isn't quite as impressive-sounding to the layman as it should be.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
DrewDewce
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

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Y!:
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
I only saw bits and pieces (will watch more w/the kiddos over the next few days), but I am fully on board w/the Prime Time Players getting more "scouting" time or a Titus O'Neal v. Jerry Lawler debate at the very least ;-)



"You are going to get a certain amount of snarkiness on the Internet no matter what, and my rule is that you don't post anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face."
Marc Andreyko (Writer of DC Comic's "Manhunter")
Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
The PTPs' washrag > Moe Syzlak's washrag

I loved Punk's celebration, the countdown chart, his ION Main Event prediction...where were Paul's "BALLOONS!"??

We're getting a slow burn on Team ARR (Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns) I guess... And we even got a Brad Maddox recap, interesting...

No discussion of Cena's knee being a work/shoot/who knows? Apparently he tweeted he's getting an MRI today on it.

Sheamus was really bruised and beaten from SurSer...yikes, fella. Also, did call Regal his "long term friend"?

Bryan's new (Jill Thompson-designed) NO! ring gear is amazing.



"Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.97
Who was the dude with the Shawn Michaels cowboy hat on with his arms up in the background when Cena grabbed AJ? Was that one of 3MB? I saw Slater standing in the middle of the locker room when she barged in, but he didn't ahve a hat on.

-edit- It's Drew:

http://103.imagebam.com/download/ItKMyNPur8P2YYk8LWqflw/22136/221350587/AJBack2.jpg

I like the continuity that it's all heels in the locker room, but why doesn't it say so on the door? What happens if Santino walks into the wrong room?

How did the guys poop the rest of the night? Prison style wide open?

Why was the shower running with just the towel conveniencetly laid in the middle of the floor to keep the water from splashing out so they wouldn't slip? Mystery showerer?

Titus for color man when Jerry retires. I loved it when after he told Lawler: "You got no heart.", they caught him giving Jerry that smile. Oh, and what was with him constantly calling him "Jerry 'The King' Lawler"? Cole misssed a great line at the end after PTP got thrown out, he said: "Time to hit the washroom, guys!" He should have said washrag instead of washroom.

If your hair is nappy, you ain't happy! Put that pick to good use, DY!

Cole and Lawler ate that segment up. Lawd, it was funnay!

When did Tamina get extensions?


I can't believe Vince hasn't gone full Sophia Vergara with Rosa.

Jury is still out on wether Cena really injured his knee or not. I'm assuming "not", which would suck cuz I think we could use another monoth of injured Cena for more guys to rise above the glass celing.

No balloons. Bah.

Every "wrestler" out there should spend a week with Heyman and pay close, close attention to EVERYTHING he does.

(edited by JimBob Skeeter on 20.11.12 0801)
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.42
    Originally posted by JimBob Skeeter
    Every "wrestler" out there should spend a week with Heyman and pay close, close attention to EVERYTHING he does.


He was on last night, so much that he seemed hyper in his off-mic interactions with Punk.

If Orton and Del Rio vanished, I wouldn't mind. What do you do with either man now? Stretch this further for TLC?

The best move of the show was Ambrose flying like Shane-O to intercept Ryback at ringside.





"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Dr Unlikely
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Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
THOSE GUYS

(Ideal catchphrase for Those Guys: "You're Either One Of Those, Or You're One Of Them!")

I assume any time they do the same ending as the PPV the next night on Raw, it's because they came up with that PPV ending right before the show and still don't know what they're doing yet.

This was Titus O'Neil's finest showing since the legendary "DO THE DOG BARK!" episode of NX2. They should turn Hour 1 of Raw into a Raw pre-game studio show and let Titus be their Shannon Sharpe, just saying whatever comes into his head. Slaughter can be Bill Cowher. Old footage of Mr. Perfect from Prime Time Wrestling can be Boomer Esiason.

I have no other opinions about this show or company.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 32 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
Just in time for Hanukkah.

I'm A Paul Heyman Guy shirts now on sale. (shop.wwe.com)

Note: currently only available in XL and 2XL. They know their audience.

Oh, I'll be the voice of optimism here:

A year ago, everyone was complaining about the hotshotting of the WWE Title belt and how CM Punk should be The Man. Now he is. A year as WWE Champion is something no one would have imagined. Also, everyone was complaining that Punk was Champion but not closing the show as the main event as recently as two months ago. They seem to have corrected that as well. Punk closed the last two PPVs with victories. Everyone also complains that, "WAHH! Punk was turned to a heel! But we WANNA cheer him!" Well, what's stopping you? Punk is better as a heel. He just is. He was boring as a babyface, it doesn't suit his asshole nature. As a heel he's also got Paul Heyman as his advocate. I think Punk has really bloomed now. He's got it all. He's firing on all cylinders at the moment.

(edited by John Orquiola on 20.11.12 0647)

@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.28
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Just in time for Hanukkah.

    I'm A Paul Heyman Guy shirts now on sale. (shop.wwe.com)

    Note: currently only available in XL and 2XL. They know their audience.

    Oh, I'll be the voice of optimism here:

    A year ago, everyone was complaining about the hotshotting of the WWE Title belt and how CM Punk should be The Man. Now he is. A year as WWE Champion is something no one would have imagined. Also, everyone was complaining that Punk was Champion but not closing the show as the main event as recently as two months ago. They seem to have corrected that as well. Punk closed the last two PPVs with victories. Everyone also complains that, "WAHH! Punk was turned to a heel! But we WANNA cheer him!" Well, what's stopping you? Punk is better as a heel. He just is. He was boring as a babyface, it doesn't suit his asshole nature. As a heel he's also got Paul Heyman as his advocate. I think Punk has really bloomed now. He's got it all. He's firing on all cylinders at the moment.

    (edited by John Orquiola on 20.11.12 0647)


I am buying that shirt if its available at Mania. I am sorta with you on this, but the real problem is not Punk. Its the fact that the WWE has really done nothing with him as champ. He was in the midcard for Mania. Even though he had amazing feuds with Jericho and Bryan for most of the year as soon as Cena came along, now he is a big deal. Its like they waited til the last second of him being a face to be like no just turn him heel. They have literally no one ready in the midcard to face him due to turning all of their wrestlers into clown shoe faces or dastardly heels that barely get heat, because they are boring.

Yes, he is entertaining as a heel and as an ECW guy, Paul being on my TV is a win. Yet, I feel like they took all that goodwill Punk built up for a year and flushed it down the drain, because they refuse to turn Cena or worse not build up stars to face him. I was at Wizard World Philly this year where he had a longer line than Stan Lee. Think about that, a wrestler had a longer line at a comic book convention than the come book equivalent of the Almighty. People want to cheer for him and get behind him. His promo worked, because its what a chunk of the audience feels. He was telling a lot of truth and I thought after how shitty they booked him after MITB, the fans got behind him more. Now, they are stuck in this weird place where the fans are cheering for him while their min-Goldberg is getting no response as he is being attacked by Spirit Squad 2.0.

I also disagree with the notion that Punk is a better heel. We hear this all the time, turn so and so as a heel, he is more interesting. If everyone turns heel who the fuck is going to be the face? Punk was completely over as a face, I would say way more than Cena. He knew what to say and how to say it to get the fans behind him. That is totally missing in all the faces, WWE has. They need someone all the fans not a certain demographic can get behind. Punk was that guy. Granted, its football season, but the ratings are not doing anything and there is zero momentum for anything WWE is doing. If they turned Cena and had Punk face him with Nexus 4.0 on Cena's side then, you probably see a better response.

(edited by lotjx on 20.11.12 0908)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 2 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.49
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Just in time for Hanukkah.

      I'm A Paul Heyman Guy shirts now on sale. (shop.wwe.com)

      Note: currently only available in XL and 2XL. They know their audience.

      Oh, I'll be the voice of optimism here:

      A year ago, everyone was complaining about the hotshotting of the WWE Title belt and how CM Punk should be The Man. Now he is. A year as WWE Champion is something no one would have imagined. Also, everyone was complaining that Punk was Champion but not closing the show as the main event as recently as two months ago. They seem to have corrected that as well. Punk closed the last two PPVs with victories. Everyone also complains that, "WAHH! Punk was turned to a heel! But we WANNA cheer him!" Well, what's stopping you? Punk is better as a heel. He just is. He was boring as a babyface, it doesn't suit his asshole nature. As a heel he's also got Paul Heyman as his advocate. I think Punk has really bloomed now. He's got it all. He's firing on all cylinders at the moment.

      (edited by John Orquiola on 20.11.12 0647)


    Now, they are stuck in this weird place where the fans are cheering for him while their min-Goldberg is getting no response as he is being attacked by Spirit Squad 2.0.

    (edited by lotjx on 20.11.12 0908)

I'm not a big fan of Ryback, but dude gets reactions. Especially last night. I would also think calling the NXT guys Spirit Squad 2.0 is a bit drastic. We have barely seen anything out of them so far, but if anything, they are more like Aces & Eights 2.0.
RedLion79
Longanisa








Since: 12.7.11

Since last post: 1 day
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.85
I'm enjoying seeing Miz treated as a face. The crowds reaction to him is great and it seems he really is enjoying it
Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 18 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I was at Wizard World Philly this year where he had a longer line than Stan Lee. Think about that, a wrestler had a longer line at a comic book convention than the come book equivalent of the Almighty.


I was there too...it also co$t twice as much to meet Smilin Stan as it did for Punk, who was on there for a few hours on Sat vs. Stan who was there for 2 days...that's not really a fair comparison.

That being said, Punk's lines/reaction/etc. were incredible that day.



"Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.84
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I am buying that shirt if its available at Mania.

It's Heyman. Play it safe and buy it now.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
CruelAngel777
Frankfurter








Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 1 day
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
I thought I was the only one that guffawed out loud to the PTP/Cole/Lawler commentary. Cole was even pretty funny last night. Take that you old washrags!

The AJ Scandal got slightly interesting last night. It all had little to do with Cena. He's just there as a story pawn. This storyis more about Tamina (who towered over AJ in a nice visual) being Vickie's silent enforcer, AJ being a focused and fearless crazy person against Dolph, Dolph kicking out the best serious mic work I've seen from him so far then destroying Cena and the bathroom stalls. I don't think this angle isn't so much about Cena as it is about rebuilding the Diva's division around AJ and making Dolph an official main event threat. I can watch Dolph run Cena through building structures all day every day.

John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 32 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
    Originally posted by CruelAngel777
    The AJ Scandal got slightly interesting last night. It all had little to do with Cena. He's just there as a story pawn. This storyis more about Tamina (who towered over AJ in a nice visual) being Vickie's silent enforcer, AJ being a focused and fearless crazy person against Dolph, Dolph kicking out the best serious mic work I've seen from him so far then destroying Cena and the bathroom stalls. I don't think this angle isn't so much about Cena as it is about rebuilding the Diva's division around AJ and making Dolph an official main event threat.


Good point. Dolph even delivered a fairly complex psychological breakdown of AJ to her face that would impress Dr. Shelby. (I wonder if Dr. Shelby made any observations on AJ when they worked together?) It's been a long time since they've had a female character as complicated as AJ. And Eve herself, AJ's potential arch rival, got a similar breakdown of her emotional state earlier this year during that whole Zack Ryder thing where Eve was trying to kiss Cena. And now AJ is kissing Cena. At the very least, the two Divas who are arguably going to feud over the Divas Title have been given some layered characters, compared to the other girls.



@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 14 hours
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    A year ago, everyone was complaining about the hotshotting of the WWE Title belt and how CM Punk should be The Man. Now he is. A year as WWE Champion is something no one would have imagined. Also, everyone was complaining that Punk was Champion but not closing the show as the main event as recently as two months ago. They seem to have corrected that as well.


While I'll always think they turned him too soon, you gotta admit Punk was incredibly savvy with his reading of the tea leaves. After a year of doing as well as possible as babyface 2B, he gambled that the only way he was going to get any higher was by turning, figuring that he'd get more focus and TV time as the #1 heel than the #2 face. And he was right. Now he's all over the show, carrying 11:00 instead of 10:00, last on PPV instead of second from the top, his big match with Rock is going to be even bigger because the dynamic is better as face vs. heel, and if you believe at least one very early newsletter report, he's positioned himself to go on last at Wrestlemania, which according to him is his last big goal in wrestling.


    Everyone also complains that, "WAHH! Punk was turned to a heel! But we WANNA cheer him!" Well, what's stopping you? Punk is better as a heel. He just is.


As I said when they first turned him, a heel Punk getting cheered by a portion of the audience no matter what creates a reverse polarity Cena and balances the energy of the universe. And since the one thing top babyfaces who turn heel always complain about is that it kills their merchandise checks, I'm betting Punk still does very well in that department as the antihero even if he sells less among the Cenation youth who got behind him as a valiant good guy.
Oliver
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
Kaitlyn's smile reminds me of Jack Nicholson when he was the Joker in the 1989 Batman movie.



...on a roll!
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
Does anyone else find the in-ring makeout sessions really awkward and uncomfortable?

You never saw Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold sucking face in the ring. They just kicked ass. You didn't even see Macho Man kiss Elizabeth until their wedding.

Plus, it's weird the think that Bryan, Punk, Cena, and Kane have all kissed each other indirectly via AJ.



"I've buried my brother alive...twice" -Kane in anger management
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Plus, it's weird the think that Bryan, Punk, Cena, and Kane have all kissed each other indirectly via AJ.


And Primo and Hornswoggle
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And the "extra stuff" is the Hogan/Vince signing from SD! WHY!??!? There WERE two separate brands last time I checked, right? I don't know as this show NEEDS 30 extra minutes. Seems to be dragging really bad tonight.
- Enojado Viento, RAW (Ongoing) (2003)
Related threads: Did they go too far? - Raw #1016 11-12-12 (Jerry Lawler returns) - Just got a text about tonight's RAW. - More...
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