ParagonOfVirtue
Salami
   
   
   
 
 
Since: 20.8.03
From: New Jersey, USA
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|  #1 Posted on 17.12.03 1846.49 | Instant Rating: 2.59 | Picked this up today, quite an intriguing list.
Andre the Giant, Gorilla Monsoon, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Iron Sheik, George Steele, Haystacks Calhoun, Ric Flair, Jesse Ventura, Junkyard Dog, Roddy Piper, Kane, King Kong Bundy, Buddy Rodgers, Ultimate Warrior, Don Muraco, Honky Tonk Man, Hulk Hogan, Killer Kowalski, Pat Patterson, Chris Jericho, Jay Strongbow, Steve Austin, Ted DiBiase, Bret Hart, Bob Backlund, Bobo Brazil, Ivan Putski, Razor Ramon, Wendi Richter, The Rock, Randy Savage, Jake Roberts, Ricky Steamboat, Mick Foley, Triple H, Jimmy Snuka, Bruno Sammartino, Fabulous Moolah, Brock Lesnar, Yokozuna, Billy Graham, Antonino Rocca, Pedro Morales, Sgt. Slaughter, Ernie Ladd, Kurt Angle, Rick Rude, Ken Patera, Paul Orndorff.
It would be unfair for me to criticize picks of old superstars, because I feel you have to be in that time frame to grasp how important they truly were. I don't think being seven years old or looking at old tapes would do it justice.
I'll stick with the younger superstars and there are definitely a few surprises. The Kane pick threw me off considering he's been irrelevant since '99, but his feud with Taker and the Corporation angle were money. It's a tad early for Lesnar. I'm surprised they didn't bury Jericho here, and likewise, I'm surprised they left Diesel off. This is rooted in markdom after all, and they gave Diesel the ball for a long time. Must be out of frustration for his suckage against HHH. Same type of snubbing went to Chyna, who has more or less been written out of the history books a la 1984. Too bad she sucked, or else maybe I'd care.
There are a bunch of other controversial picks but I'll let you all pick this apart. And for the record, before people start crying, let me reiterate. This is made by the WWE. The people who made the list are:
1. Those "superstars" they pushed the hardest.
2. Those "superstars" Vince still has a positive impression of.
That is all. Have fun.
Side note: For those going to Wrestlemania XX, I must say, the merchandise is nice. I've never bought wrestling apparel before at the risk of looking like a complete tool, but I am strongly considering buying the t-shirt or sweatshirt, or the skull cap. Either way, I'll definitely at least pick up the keychain. This is goddamn WRESTLEMANIA 20.| Promote this thread! |           | geemoney
Scrapple
 
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|  #2 Posted on 17.12.03 2045.19 | Instant Rating: 2.71 | | This is the first WWE magazine in a while I'm going to make sure to pick up. | jivesoulbro
Bauerwurst
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| #3 Posted on 17.12.03 2105.47 | Instant Rating: 6.24 | There's nobody on the list that jumps out as me that someone who shouldn't be on there, but I'm surprised to not see Chyna or Diesel.
Did they not rank them? | This Is Just Wrong
Linguica
Since: 17.12.03
From: Toronto
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| #4 Posted on 17.12.03 2136.21 | Where are the following wrestlers?
1) Owen Hart
2) Davey Boy Smith
3) Mr Perfect
These guys are more important than Razor Ramon or Jay Strongbow | RKMtwin
Boudin rouge
Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado
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| #5 Posted on 17.12.03 2143.37 | Instant Rating: 4.65 | Hmmmm... It's a damn good list. The Iron Skiek's inclusion is interesting. I dunno... he might be the most significant transitional World's Heavyweight Champion of all time, that's for sure. And also, I think that if you look at all of the--
WHERE THE HECK IS BOBBY THE BRAIN HEENAN?!?!?!?!
If there's any doubt, just go to this link for a confidence boost, brothas and sistas!
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| dr wagner jr
Chorizo
Since: 21.9.03
From: Mexico City
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|  #6 Posted on 17.12.03 2146.56 | Instant Rating: 2.85 | Originally posted by This Is Just Wrong
Where are the following wrestlers?
1) Owen Hart
2) Davey Boy Smith
3) Mr Perfect
These guys are more important than Razor Ramon or Jay Strongbow
Yeah! That's right!
Where is Owen Hart?
Where' is the Best Tag Team of all times the Legion of Doom?
Where is Mr Perfect?
Razor Ramon, and Sgt. Slaughter.. Greatest Superstars of all-time?
FUCK that List!
www.nuinfo.tk
| This Is Just Wrong
Linguica
Since: 17.12.03
From: Toronto
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| #7 Posted on 17.12.03 2155.56 | I can see why the Road Warriors were left out because the WWF never really respected them as the NWA did
BUT...
i mean, "greatest superstar" is a pretty bold label on a wrestler...
Wendi Richter...an important female wrestler but only because she was the champ around the Rock N Wrestling era..is she really worthy?
geez...i mean, if you put the Iron Sheik, shouldnt you put in Nikolai Volkoff?
How about Dynamite Kid, who with Davey Boy Smith revolutionized tag team wrestling? | CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator
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| #8 Posted on 17.12.03 2158.39 | Instant Rating: 8.65 | Originally posted by jivesoulbro
There's nobody on the list that jumps out as me that someone who shouldn't be on there, but I'm surprised to not see Chyna or Diesel.
Did they not rank them?
Nope.
Cover price is $6.99/CDN$9.99.
| Mayhem
Scrapple
Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN
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| #9 Posted on 17.12.03 2203.18 | Instant Rating: 4.78 |
That's a pretty solid list. I can see where Owen Hart should have possibly been in there, but all in all, it's pretty accurate.
At least Jericho was on there ... I guess because of his Undisputed Championship.
"Yeah cake rocks the body that rocks the party." - Christian
| Nag
Landjager
Since: 10.1.03
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| #10 Posted on 17.12.03 2219.07 | Instant Rating: 3.53 | Being this is the WWE, I'm surprised it is as balenced as it it, with a good representation coming from all decades. As in, when I saw the topic, I was sure I would see a John Cena or Randy Orton on the list. Looks like someone with some knowledge made the selections instead of one of them marks on their website.
However, I would like to see Curt Henning on the list, more so then his contemporary Honky Tonk Man. Besides being my favorite personalities from that era Henning had a few successful main event runs with Hogan and Warrior. Honky had the great 18 month IC run which I suppose should be enough to be included, if not for the fact he was a damn jobber from that point on. Even Rude, who I loved, had some political problems with Hogan and never got to that level, at least not until it was too late. Now I would say Ken Patera, since I only remember him as a funny looking 'jobber to the stars' with the Kurt Angel's singlets, but I don't remember his first run in the WWF.
Chyna should be on, but like the man said, I won't shed a tear; If you want to compare her to Richter, Chyna had far more impact. Richter was more of a flash in a pan, she was at the right spot at the right time, which lasted what, a year? Chyna was way over, got some great pub right up until she left, and she's still making a carrer out of it.
And Yes, what about Nash. Hey, I hate the guy, but from April of 1994 until November 1995 he never went strapless. Sure his World Title reign was a fiancail flop, but so were alot of these guys. Plus he played a big hand in destroying WCW. Which alone should get him in the top 20. Maybe...not all's right in cliqueville.
Still, they deserve praise for including Jake Roberts.
Now I ask this question, which might spark an interesting conversation. Does Flair really deserve to be on there?
EDIT: Hey, I loved Owen; but if he didn't die would it even be a big issue? A tremendous talent, but besides the feud with Bret he almost never got above midcard status.
(edited by Nag on 17.12.03 2324) | This Is Just Wrong
Linguica
Since: 17.12.03
From: Toronto
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| #11 Posted on 17.12.03 2238.38 | CASE FOR OWEN HART
1) Won every major title with the exception of the World Title
2) Was a part of very important storylines such as the famous Bret/family feud, Hart Foundation/Canada/US war (which helped Austin turn into a SUPERSTAR) and near the end of his life, was a part of the Nation of Domination feud with Degeneration X that turned Rock and HHH into stars
3) Played a very entertaining annoying heel and could be considered the one of the most hated heels of the mid 90s in the WWF
4) Amazing wrestler and part of the Fed's best matches (WMX match with Bret and Summerslam cage match with Bret as well as some very good matches with Shawn Michaels)
I think this puts him over George Steele (what the hell makes him a great superstar anyway?), Razor Ramon, Wendi Richter, Iron Sheik, etc | rockstar
Salami
Since: 2.1.02
From: East TN
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| #12 Posted on 17.12.03 2329.38 | Instant Rating: 6.22 |
The only people on this list I question are:
King Kong Bundy - mediocre heel, IMO. Just a huge bald fat guy.
Ken Patera - never really accomplished much that I know of.
Brock Lesnar - too soon.
Defending:
Razor Ramon - the first four time Intercontinental Champion and that's pretty impressive/important in the grand scheme of things.
George Steele - could be questioned for the same reasons as Patera, but he was pretty popular back in the day. C'mon, he ate turnbuckle padding to entertain you. Give him a break.
Wendy Richter - the same thing Nag said about her can also be said about Chyna. Chyna got herself written out of the WWE cannon, although the double-cross that took the title off of Richter due to a contract dispute would seemingly result in the same banishment, but it's been nearly 20 years now. She was part of the WWF/MTV wave, so there's her "importance."
I'd suggest replacing Bundy and Patera with Curt Hennig and Owen Hart. Davey Boy Smith really doesn't deserve to be on that list any more than say, Jim Neidhart does. Maybe swap Lesnar with Nash and then wait five years and replace Nash with Lesnar if Brock holds up.
|
| This Is Just Wrong
Linguica
Since: 17.12.03
From: Toronto
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| #13 Posted on 17.12.03 2340.50 | Instant Rating: 3.00 | yeah, but if you're going to include George Steele, why not Nikolai Volkoff or Adrian Adonis? They were also a part of the "wave"
| Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter
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| #14 Posted on 18.12.03 0020.44 | Instant Rating: 0.00 | If I can be serious for a minute...
And for equal time, here's Yen's 25 Anti-Superstars of All Time:
Sid Vicious, Vader, Zeus, Brutus Beefcake, Ahmed Johnson, Shane Douglas, Bam Bam Bigelow, Tatanka, Test, Nathan Jones, Savio Vega, Crush, Ludwig Borga, Haku, Buff Bagwell, Mabel, A-Train, Billy Gunn, Tiger Ali Singh, Charles Wright, Rikishi, Mark Henry, Gangrel, Lex Luger, Marc Mero
BASTARD! | Quezzy
Knackwurst
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| #15 Posted on 18.12.03 0114.54 | Instant Rating: 4.57 | Originally posted by Nag
Now I ask this question, which might spark an interesting conversation. Does Flair really deserve to be on there?
Ok, I'll answer that question. I say no. HIs first run was good and all but his current run has been very poor. Obviously if this is a best 50 greatest wrestlers of all time then he's likely number 1. But I have a hard time considering him top 50 in the WWE.
Owen is close. I think he does get sympathy vote because he died in the ring. I mean all the things that This Is Just Wrong said is true, he was in great matches, he was in great feuds, he had lots of titles. BUt you can say the same thing about Eddie, Benoit, Edge and many other mid carders who shouldn't be considered yet either. But since he did die tragically so early I think maybe people thought he was going to go on to greater things eventually. It's hard to predict what someone would or wouldn't have done if they were still alive.
Lance's Response:
THAT IS AWESOME! | jwrestle
Lap cheong
Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV
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| #16 Posted on 18.12.03 0140.14 | Instant Rating: 1.08 | I picked this up today also. There isn't any numbering order and Owen Hart gets a mention in eiather the Bret profile or the Yokozuna one. It's a something to pick up because I'm interested on how they desided these were the 50 greatest. Anyways, I've skimmed through it and found it rather enjoyable. So, I know everbody will argue will who should have been in it but I think it's rather...done well.
As Eric Bishoff asks if he's ok I get this message ------------
ssjaj23: Goldberg: What's wrong? I can't sell, I'm sloppy in the ring. I don't like being heel. I have no ring phycology | This Is Just Wrong
Linguica
Since: 17.12.03
From: Toronto
Since last post: 3359 days
Last activity: 3304 days
| #17 Posted on 18.12.03 0141.29 | Instant Rating: 3.00 | Originally posted by Quezzy
Originally posted by Nag
Now I ask this question, which might spark an interesting conversation. Does Flair really deserve to be on there?
Ok, I'll answer that question. I say no. HIs first run was good and all but his current run has been very poor. Obviously if this is a best 50 greatest wrestlers of all time then he's likely number 1. But I have a hard time considering him top 50 in the WWE.
Owen is close. I think he does get sympathy vote because he died in the ring. I mean all the things that This Is Just Wrong said is true, he was in great matches, he was in great feuds, he had lots of titles. BUt you can say the same thing about Eddie, Benoit, Edge and many other mid carders who shouldn't be considered yet either. But since he did die tragically so early I think maybe people thought he was going to go on to greater things eventually. It's hard to predict what someone would or wouldn't have done if they were still alive.
| Mayhem
Scrapple
Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN
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| #18 Posted on 18.12.03 0709.25 | Instant Rating: 4.78 | Originally posted by Swordsman Yen
And for equal time, here's Yen's 25 Anti-Superstars of All Time:
Sid Vicious, Vader, Zeus, Brutus Beefcake, Ahmed Johnson, Shane Douglas, Bam Bam Bigelow, Tatanka, Test, Nathan Jones, Savio Vega, Crush, Ludwig Borga, Haku, Buff Bagwell, Mabel, A-Train, Billy Gunn, Tiger Ali Singh, Charles Wright, Rikishi, Mark Henry, Gangrel, Lex Luger, Marc Mero
Add Sean "X-Pac" Waltman to that list too.
"Yeah cake rocks the body that rocks the party." - Christian
| dr wagner jr
Chorizo
Since: 21.9.03
From: Mexico City
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| #19 Posted on 18.12.03 0845.26 | Instant Rating: 2.57 | Originally posted by Mayhem
Originally posted by Swordsman Yen
And for equal time, here's Yen's 25 Anti-Superstars of All Time:
Sid Vicious, Vader, Zeus, Brutus Beefcake, Ahmed Johnson, Shane Douglas, Bam Bam Bigelow, Tatanka, Test, Nathan Jones, Savio Vega, Crush, Ludwig Borga, Haku, Buff Bagwell, Mabel, A-Train, Billy Gunn, Tiger Ali Singh, Charles Wright, Rikishi, Mark Henry, Gangrel, Lex Luger, Marc Mero
Add Sean "X-Pac" Waltman to that list too.
Add Doink the clown as the number one of that List...
He also leads the 25 Stupid wrestlers of all time...i gave number one to Kamala...
wagner jr
(edited by dr wagner jr on 18.12.03 0647)
This is Nu Info
| Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge
Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville
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| #20 Posted on 18.12.03 0917.22 | Instant Rating: 2.35 | The only thing that really matters is that HONKY TONK MAN MADE IT, BABY!! Answering once and for all the question everyone was asking: "Did Lawler have any say whatsoever in who got on there?"
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