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22.8.14 1652
The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE going down the tubes
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Kokolums
Linguica








Since: 21.2.02

Since last post: 4472 days
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#1 Posted on
The declining ticket sales reminds me of watching WCW in its death throes when the arena was empty. Will it get that bad? I don't see why not. The product has been injected with many ex-WCW talents that weren't drawing flies. The WWF talent is directionless and stale. That is WWE.



At the start of the year I said they'd be out of business in 2 years so that's now a year and a half away.



A big problem seems to be too much concern about locker room morale. Why else do you squash new hires and send them to the midcard? What I -really- cannot believe is that they just ruined Brock Lesnar by having the girly Hardys dismantle him. Wow. I mean, I -expected- them to screw up the nWo angle by having Austin crush them. But do to that to their own product?



Does any wrestler have any momentum now? So they just randomly win and lose? When was the last time anyone cared about the WWE title? Is there a signature match off in the distance for the fans to anticipate or to give the fed a direction? And I bet its all to protect locker room morale.



They so desparately need to identify who their stars are. They need to focus on those signature matches and build a story around them. They need to bait the fans with that carrot. They need to tell a story. They need to give a payoff at the end.



They also desparately need to take some chances. Some main eventers need new gimmicks to move their own personal story along.



They can do this the right way. They can slowly work in these needed changes. Or they do what WCW did and wait until things are -really- bad and hit the panic button. They are choosing WCWs path.



There is a trailing effect of goodwill. Your booking can suck for a while but people will put up with it because of the good times. But if you suck too long, people won't give you a chance even if you turn it around. Then your dead. Has WWE passed that point?

(edited by Kokolums on 15.5.02 0020)
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J. Kyle
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Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#2 Posted on
Nobody Important Says:

Luckily we have the NWA's Total Nonstop Action to fall back on.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#3 Posted on
While I wouldn't get the wreath out and the casket ready quite yet, I think we're going to be entering a period of contraction for the company. Some of the bigger name guys are not likely to be around forever I would think, as Vince dumps some salaries as live attendance continues to tank. I wouldn't worry too much about them losing tv until they stop being the highest rated show on TNN, and generally the top one on UPN. From what one hears it sounds like Vince is already working to prepare for that by slowly lowering all the downside guarantee money to prepare for the eventual drop in revenues likely to be seen as this year progresses.

Now as for the quality, yeah, they're tanking royally.



"You used it to shove your miserable daughter down our throats week in and week out...not anymore!" - Ric Flair gives me hope, Raw 3/18/02

"I thought it was cool how HHH just tossed Jericho out of the ring and made him vanish, possibly into another dimension, at the end of the match." - Dr. Unlikely says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville
Alessandro
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Worcester MA

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
As far as I'm concerned, the WWF WWE is currently going through the "Hulk Hogan Retirement Tour" period ... I mean, I hear all this bitching and moaning about Hogan holding the belt and hogging the main events and blah blah blah, but does anyone REALLY think that he will be the champ/number one contender for the next three straight years (or however long his current contract is)?

Eventually, Hogan's "glorious return to the WWF" will be over, and the writers can once again start focusing on the younger main event talent ... In fact, it's really just a matter of bad timing, as Hogan's return coincided with a lot of other "questionable" developments within the wrestling world (the demise of WCW and ECW, the brand extension, the company's name change, etc) which basically threw the entire business into a state of controlled - and sometimes not so controlled - chaos.

Once things have a chance to settle down, and some of the injured superstars return, I'm sure we'll see an improvement in the overall presentation of the show AND in fan attendance ... Just give it some time and don't hit the "Panic" button just yet.





Alessandro "Hercules" Boondy

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  • wannaberockstar
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    Since: 7.3.02
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    #5 Posted on

      Originally posted by spf2119
      I wouldn't worry too much about them losing tv until they stop being the highest rated show on TNN, and generally the top one on UPN.


    I don't think they have to worry about that, have you seen some of the crap on UPN and TNN? ;-)
    benny567
    Pinkelwurst








    Since: 22.4.02
    From: London

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    #6 Posted on
    the wwe has gone downhill since the spilt of the roster...... there are too many stupid gimmicks and interviews , instead of good matches. smackdown is crap but raw is now worse! i have had it with their stupid shows.... i think the nWo r to blame for the demise of raw, while the absence of rhyno, rock and benoit is hutting smackdown.... bring back shane....



    i am the man
    Trineo
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    Since: 19.3.02
    From: Boston

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    #7 Posted on
    I think what people are forgetting is that ratings for wrestling were never as big as they were during Monday Night Wars. I'm not sure about the old USA days before Raw, but I can remember reading about how a 5.0 was an incredible accomplishment by WWE or WCW.

    The latest boom period of wrestling is coming to an end, and the sooner people realize that, the sooner they will realize that the WWE is not going to die, it's just going last through this down-turn (which could be considered partly their fault) until the "Next Big Thing" comes along to bring next wrestling boom.

    No matter what anybody thinks, Brock Lesnar is not going to be the savior of the WWE. He's big and strong, but has not shown much charisma without Heyman. Some guys seem to have a bright future and could bring about a new wrestling boom, but it's got to be something that nobody has seen yet, or haven't seen out of a certain person yet.



    It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at the man.
    Papercuts!
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    Since: 3.1.02
    From: Springfield, Mo.

    Since last post: 4404 days
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    #8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

      Originally posted by Alessandro
      As far as I'm concerned, the WWF WWE
    Man, this joke NEVER gets old.



    --Jason Baldwin
    Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
    Alessandro
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    Since: 2.1.02
    From: Worcester MA

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    #9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
    Thank you!!! :-D



    Alessandro "Hercules" Boondy

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  • Kokolums
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    Since: 21.2.02

    Since last post: 4472 days
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    #10 Posted on

    Trineo said:
    The latest boom period of wrestling is coming to an end, and the sooner people realize that, the sooner they will realize that the WWE is not going to die, it's just going last through this down-turn (which could be considered partly their fault) until the "Next Big Thing" comes along to bring next wrestling boom.


    I disagree. I think there is no guarantee that WWE will exist forever. If they suck bad enough, they -can- go out of business. The world doesn't need pro wrestling. I think they are definitely on track to go under.

    Another really needed change is to get rid of Flair and McMahon from TV, ship these heat-killing nobodys like Dreamer, Stasiak, Hurricane, Storm, etc, OFF to the weekends or OVW. Or just cut them. Any of those options are infinitely better for WWE than LAME comedy acts where the guys look like a-holes. What they are doing is so WCW.


    (edited by Kokolums on 15.5.02 1131)
    Papercuts!
    Potato korv








    Since: 3.1.02
    From: Springfield, Mo.

    Since last post: 4404 days
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    #11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

      Originally posted by Kokolums
      Another really needed change is to get rid of Flair and McMahon from TV, ship these heat-killing nobodys like Dreamer, Stasiak, Hurricane, Storm, etc, OFF to the weekends or OVW. Or just cut them. Any of those options are infinitely better for WWE than LAME comedy acts where the guys look like a-holes.
    You're blaming the personalities for things that aren't their fault. It's the booking, pure and simple. It's not pulling the trigger on a number of angles and capitalized on sure fire heat. I could list them off if you'd like.

    The guys you listed are "heat-killing nobodies" because they're put in dumb angles that go nowhere and do nothing. They're booked to look like retards -- Hurricane and Stasiak are perfect examples of this. And it's not their fault in the slightest. Heck, Hurricane is one of the reasons I stopped watching the WWF.



    --Jason Baldwin
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    El Nastio
    Andouille








    Since: 14.1.02
    From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

    Since last post: 1 day
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    #12 Posted on
    They also can't please everyone. I mean, I like the Hurricane gimmick, and I know I'm not the only one.

    EDIT #1: Dreamer is actually over somewhat. Those who don't know who he is seem to lik ehim. I;ve heard as much on these boards.
    EDIT #2: Spiff is right. No mater what; you need a mid-card.

    (edited by El Nastio on 15.5.02 1414)
    I just graduated from TV-Broadcasting. An educated redneck? WHAT?!
    Spaceman Spiff
    Knackwurst








    Since: 2.1.02
    From: Philly Suburbs

    Since last post: 50 days
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    #13 Posted on
    The WWE won't being going out of business any time soon. The reason WCW did was that they were owned by AOL/Time Warner. They were losing money, so WCW was put up for sale. The WWE isn't owned by a parent company like that, so there's nobody to shut it down if ratings/attendance/box office earnings suffer. Jeez, some people sound like Chicken Little - "ratings dropped, the WWE's going out of business!"


      ship these heat-killing nobodys like Dreamer, Stasiak, Hurricane, Storm, etc, OFF to the weekends or OVW. Or just cut them. Any of those options are infinitely better for WWE than LAME comedy acts where the guys look like a-holes. What they are doing is so WCW.

    The same Hurricane that is over w/ the crowd? The same Hurricane that can probably wrestle circles around half the roster? (I'll agree w/ you on Stasiak, though) Who's going to be your mid-card? Crash? Mark Henry? Godfather? Guys like Helms & Storm are who they should be pushing, not Bradshaw.



    Matthew: You would've loved it, David. A week in a foreign country, strange people, strange customs...
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    HrdCoreJoe
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    Since: 29.4.02
    From: Jax, FL

    Since last post: 996 days
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    #14 Posted on
    The Hurricane "Sugar Shane/ Gregory Helms" is the man! I long for the days of 3 Count.
    Kokolums
    Linguica








    Since: 21.2.02

    Since last post: 4472 days
    Last activity: 4461 days
    #15 Posted on

    Papercuts wrote:

    You're blaming the personalities for things that aren't their fault. It's the booking, pure and simple. It's not pulling the trigger on a number of angles and capitalized on sure fire heat. I could list them off if you'd like.

    The guys you listed are "heat-killing nobodies" because they're put in dumb angles that go nowhere and do nothing. They're booked to look like retards -- Hurricane and Stasiak are perfect examples of this. And it's not their fault in the slightest. Heck, Hurricane is one of the reasons I stopped watching the WWF.


    Didn't some of these guys get pushes in WCW? Surely you can't tell me Storm and co. were draws over there. Now they are in WWE and you still can't say they are drawing.

    Sure, getting booked poorly is an obstacle. Regardless, at some point these wrestlers have to be held responsible for their own missed opportunities. I don't understand how some can absolve Jericho of any fault for his failed unified title run. He had the mic time. The promos. He didn't get the crowd going. I mean, Rocky jobs to everyone and is one of the most over people in the fed. Its not like getting put over has much to do with drawing fans.

    I think some of these are lucky to be still around.
    Spaceman Spiff
    Knackwurst








    Since: 2.1.02
    From: Philly Suburbs

    Since last post: 50 days
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    #16 Posted on
    *Nobody* was drawing in WCW at the end. Storm was over w/ the crowd, as was Helms, though.

    You have to look at it this way: how much longer will Austin, Taker, and Hogan be around? And how much longer will Rock stay around if Hollywood (the town, not Hogan) keeps throwing money at him? That's practically the whole main-event. They should be grooming some of the younger guys & getting the fans interested in them now so fans will care about them later. Getting rid of talented guys like Storm or Helms will only hurt them in the long run. Storm gets 3 minutes of TV time (if he's lucky) every other week it seems. Gee, I wonder why the fans aren't into him?


      I don't understand how some can absolve Jericho of any fault for his failed unified title run. He had the mic time. The promos. He didn't get the crowd going

    Needing to cheat to beat Rikishi & Maven probably didn't help. Did he get a clean win over *anybody*?



    Matthew: You would've loved it, David. A week in a foreign country, strange people, strange customs...
    Dave: Oh, I know what you mean. I've been to Canada.
    spf
    Scrapple








    Since: 2.1.02
    From: The Las Vegas of Canada

    Since last post: 23 days
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    #17 Posted on
    I agree with much of what Spaceman said except for the idea about a bunch of the main event guys being around only for a little while longer. Rock is gone as a main event player for the WWF. But the rest of those guys, why should we assume they're leaving anytime soon? Hogan has been almost ready to leave since WM 6, and somehow 12 years later he's world champion again. And with that example, why should we assume Austin or Taker would be any quicker to leave? Taker already wrestles a very slow, methodical, low-impact (on him) style which there's no reason to assume he couldn't keep up for another 10 years. Austin admittedly is always one bad bump away from possible paralysis, but unless that happens, and no matter how boring he is to me these days I certainly don't wish that upon him, there's no reason to think he won't be babbling about his having said so and What? a decade from now.

    Scary thought to consider regarding longevity of main event guys. Survivor Series 91 was something of a passing of the torch as Hulk Hogan lost to Undertaker (funny how he didn't have to pay his dues for years to get that win), with the interference of Ric Flair. 11 years later, Flair vs. Hogan for the title on Raw, leading up to Hogan vs. Taker at the next PPV. I'm saying main event at some ppv in 2009 is a 3-way between Taker, Austin and HHH. I could say something about HHH getting in that match by virtue of a win over Jericho bringing their record in the feud by that point to HHH: 4735 wins, Jericho: 3 wins. But that would just be the kind of thing that would get me called too smarky for my own good ;)



    "You used it to shove your miserable daughter down our throats week in and week out...not anymore!" - Ric Flair gives me hope, Raw 3/18/02

    "I thought it was cool how HHH just tossed Jericho out of the ring and made him vanish, possibly into another dimension, at the end of the match." - Dr. Unlikely says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville
    Lexus
    Bierwurst








    Since: 2.1.02
    From: Stafford, VA

    Since last post: 2 days
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    #18 Posted on
    If you're truly bored, go read what I posted in the thread marked "We Need to Save WWF: Ideas?".

    Same applies here.



    While working security at a local indy show, I saw Ricky Morton's bare ass, and the next time I hear anybody out there say "playing Ricky Morton", the person they mention had best have a really nice ass.
    southpaw00
    Weisswurst








    Since: 16.5.02

    Since last post: 4167 days
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    #19 Posted on
    If you want to push Helms, Kidman, Storm, etc., then build them up by giving them wins over increaingly difficult competition. Put them over a Holly, then Farooq, then Test, then ultimately and upper-carder.
    chazworthington
    Cotechino








    Since: 12.4.02
    From: Joisey

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    #20 Posted on
    Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on whether WWE (ok, so I'm a lemming) will be out of business anytime soon.

    I agree completly that the the wrestling industry is contracting right now. Ratings/attendences are going to be down. Does anyone have a copy of the Feb 1997 PPV? Put it in the VCR, and check out the size of the arena that held it. Contrast that to the size of the crowd in any of the ppv shows this year. As the crowd size goes down, the company will simply book smaller arenas to hold their shows in.

    Anyone remember the fall of 1990? 1995 in general? The company has been on hard times before, and they've managed to get out of it. The real issue is going to be: what happens when the TV deals with TNN and UPN are up? Without TV, the company IS out of business. That's really what killed WCW.



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    I am going to use wrestling logic here so if it's stupid well that's how it is. With the figure 4 hold and the other guy gets pinned it's because Flair (or whoever) is causing the other guy so much pain that he can't get up.
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