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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE Goes Beyond Unpleasant
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oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1798 days
Last activity: 1732 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
Vickie Guerrero and her daughters have been called up to sit at ringside for the Orton/Mysterio match at No Way Out, according to The Wob.

"Okay sweeties, your daddy's dead. That's real and I'm sure you're very upset. But what's being said about here isn't true, we promise! It's just part of our show. But can you try and cry and look all sad like you would do if this bad man WERE saying your daddy is a nasty person and in Hell and all that other stuff? That way we can make some money. Good girls!"

I honestly have no idea what is going through the minds of the people booking these past few weeks of TV. I can't fathom how they think that this is okay fodder to use as a heat generator. It just...boggles my mind. This guy was in their midst not three months ago, their friend and co-worker, a guy who gave his life for the good of the company. He remains one of the most beloved figures, both on-screen and off, of the past decade of pro-wrestling. Doesn't he deserve respect in death? Don't his family and friends deserve to see his name treated with dignity, rather than denigrated by a "heel" in a wrestling show?

Those who know me around here know that I'm a pretty positive guy when it comes to WWE's booking. I tend to look on the bright side, and often that sunny outlook is rewarded. But even if Mysterio goes over at No Way Out-which I don't think will happen, for what it's worth-I don't think that'll make up for the nastiness and sleaze that oozes from this angle. This, more than the dumbass corpse-fucking stories or steroids or mysoginistic booking or ego-stroking of those who don't deserve it, proves all the bad things said about pro wrestling and Vince McMahon. And I don't think I can be bothered to put money into such a tawdry, scummy enterprise any more.



"That Squirrel Can Waterski!"

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The Vile1
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Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1823 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.19
I totally agree with you oldschoolhero. Though, the thing is...this behavior is par for the course from WWE. Did you honestly expect anything less from them? I'm a little boggled that people are just seeing this now.

But WWE being "scummy" as you say is kind of why I phased out with them.
CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

Since last post: 356 days
Last activity: 355 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.50
Well put, oldschoolhero. Look, I understand that this is not exactly uncharacteristic of WWE, but they're going too far. And the crazy thing about it is... the more we protest, the further they'll try to push the envelope. And if people don't watch No Way Out, it will some way be interpreted as the fans not getting behind Rey's push.

I'm not at all against Randy Orton acting like a prick to get the title shot at Mania because that's what his character is. But... they've done that now. He's gotten under Rey's skin enough. They don't need to say anything further. Not to mention, I can't even imagine what Mrs. Guerrero and family must be going through right now being asked to take part in this.

I'm also one of these people who tries not to be too hard on WWE's "controversial" storylines, but really, it's time to drop it now.




The book... is... HERE!!!

Inside The Ropes lives on!!!
The official Canadian Bulldog Blog, Website, and Merchandise Center.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.40
I understand I'm in the clear minority on this issue both here and other boards. But hear me out.

Unless the WWE are trying to force the Guerreros there by saying they have to live out his contract, doesn't their presence indicate at least a tacit approval of the use of Eddie's name? It's easy to imagine evil, white Vince waving a chunk of much-needed money to the indigent Guerrero women, but this is a family that either married into or grew up knowing wrestling. Eddie's mother was in a storyline as he chased the belt, and the Mysterio family joined them for the legit-icky paternity storyline. Why can't they use this story to further the memory of Eddie the character? He's being invoked as if where were sainted. If they were truly offended, why would they show up? You'd have to think an Eddie memorial fundraiser would bring in a lot of money for that family if they wanted to put it together, as with the Pillman shows.

I admit they are treading toward distaste with this use of Eddie, but I don't think they've crossed that line. If they were to bring someone out in a mask as the Luchadore Ghost of Eddie ... well, part of me would still call that cool, but I'd be a tad insulted the WWE tried to make anyone think it was REALLY Eddie grappling FROM BEYOND. What would get me steamed? I dunno. If Orton were trying to seduce the Eddie daughters, that might do it. But again, if theey were willing to work that angle.

If it doesn't offend them, how can I claim to be offended? Why should I be more sensitive than they?

And on somewhat unrelated note, is anyone bothered by my avatar? I ask sincerely.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

Since last post: 356 days
Last activity: 355 days
ICQ:  
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.50
I understand your point (and your avatar doesn't bother me at all, personally). I just wonder how much of this was Vince implying to them that the book sales don't go to the Guerrero family unless they play ball. And I'm not suggesting the Guerrero family *needs* the money or anything, but who knows what their financial situation is like now?

I don't know -- part of me thinks WWE wouldn't sink that low, but part of me does. I hate to think that way.

That said, even if the family isn't bothered by the storyline, a lot of people are. That should count for something...

Oh, and my last point: I've already created a "Ghost of Eddie Guerrero" character on SmackDown vs. Raw 2006, but at least I'm not exploiting it for money.





The book... is... HERE!!!

Inside The Ropes lives on!!!
The official Canadian Bulldog Blog, Website, and Merchandise Center.
PerthHeat
Mettwurst








Since: 16.8.04
From: Perth Australia

Since last post: 2835 days
Last activity: 2821 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.71
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Unless the WWE are trying to force the Guerreros there by saying they have to live out his contract, doesn't their presence indicate at least a tacit approval of the use of Eddie's name? It's easy to imagine evil, white Vince waving a chunk of much-needed money to the indigent Guerrero women,
I am of the understanding that VKM said he would honour Eddies WWE contract. Now I feel he is calling his dues. '' help us out in this Vicky and we will pay you the rest of the contract'' I could be wrong but a lot of what is happening seems to be about utilising the best outcome of an event ie Eddies death for the least amount of money

(edited by PerthHeat on 11.2.06 2131)


if you cant stand the heat...buy icecream
Derrick
Cotechino








Since: 10.9.05
From: Detroit

Since last post: 450 days
Last activity: 425 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.45
What they have been doing with all this really has not offended me at all. Personally I just don't feel like seeing it. In my eyes there is nothing entertaining about this storyline. Does it suck that Eddie is dead? Sure. But using this in a storyline is not offensive, it's just bad wrestling. But all of this is not important. The real question is what does "The lovely Mrs. Tracker" think of this situation?



"They're all losers, either by birth or by choice." - Jack Parkman (Major League 2)
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
I agree with you Derrick. If the Guerrero family and friends are not finding this offensive, I'm certainly not going to be offended on their behalf. But stories about ghosts are stupid. Rey can certainly perform in memory of his friend, but to pretty much explictly say a dead person has anything to do with the actual results is just plain silly.

As far as the Guerrero family goes, their participation is approval of the storyline in my eyes. Even if they need money, they can still say no. Vince isn't the only one who has money in this world. (And we don't know that they need money. It just could be that they really like the fact that Eddie's name is staying in the storylines, and are participating because they actually want to, end of story.)



The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Jonny_English
Mettwurst








Since: 18.3.04
From: Derby, UK

Since last post: 2663 days
Last activity: 2486 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.67
The issue I have with it is that it's just not necessary. Orton doesn't need to rag on Eddie to get heat as a heel, and Rey sure doesn't need this to get over as a face. If their feud was sucking shit, and business *demanded* something drastic, then I could deal with it. As things stand, it's vulgar.
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2652 days
Last activity: 2380 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.72
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Unless the WWE are trying to force the Guerreros there by saying they have to live out his contract, doesn't their presence indicate at least a tacit approval of the use of Eddie's name? It's easy to imagine evil, white Vince waving a chunk of much-needed money to the indigent Guerrero women, but this is a family that either married into or grew up knowing wrestling.


I agree with you. I do find it somewhat distasteful that they're using the memory of Eddie as a means to get heat on Orton, but it's tough to get up on the high horse of indignity when the angle involves his wife and his best friend in the company while his nephew still draws a paycheck from the 'E. It's easy to say that all of these people are going along with this angle because Vince McMahon is pressuring them to do it, but maybe this is just evidence that the people who actually knew Eddie don't think this angle is the worst thing to ever grace a wrestling ring.



He's got that hand-waving deal. He can become INVISIBLE! This means MONEY, Dawg! - AWARulz on Cena.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
It's interesting how by getting everyone discussing the tastefulness or lack thereof of the Eddy part of this, they have basically kept people from bitching about what normally would have people up in arms. Rey Misterio is getting switched out of the WM title shot for Randy Orton after his moving storyline leading into and out of the Royal Rumble.

I'm not offended by it, but I am no longer interested. Rumble was the first WWE brand PPV I had bought since the one after WM 20. I won't be buying this one. I won't be buying WM22. Not because of any great moral consternation, but because I have no interest in watching now that they've taken a storyline I was able to invest in as a viewer and pulled the rug out from underneath it.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1798 days
Last activity: 1732 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
"Even if they need money, they can still say no."

Can they? Can they afford to blacklist themselves, and possibly future generations of the Guerrero family, by not playing ball with the only gserious game in town? Do they want to put Chavo's career in jeapordy? I'm not saying anyone's holding them for ransom here, but its foolish to think that, given how the fed conducts business, these questions are irrelevant.

And those of Eddie's friends who have nothing to lose have been VERY vocal about their upset at the WWE's use of his legacy. Mick Foley is upset by it, enough so to write an article on WWE.com in which he says he was urged to voice his opinions by those backstage who felt that they didn't have the clout to say anything. Meltzer has made several mentions of how upset those within the company are about the angle itself.

All this means nothing, I guess, because even if the family and friends weren't upset by it-which I think they are, but keep quiet thanks to outside pressure-I am, I don't like seeing one of my favourite wrestlers' untimely death used as a cheap heat device. I don't like the involvement of Eddie's still-impressionable children in a TV show that makes blunt, shallow, selfish use of their emotions to make a buck. How can that be called entertainment?



"That Squirrel Can Waterski!"

redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 290 days
Last activity: 290 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
    Originally posted by spf
    It's interesting how by getting everyone discussing the tastefulness or lack thereof of the Eddy part of this, they have basically kept people from bitching about what normally would have people up in arms. Rey Misterio is getting switched out of the WM title shot for Randy Orton after his moving storyline leading into and out of the Royal Rumble.

    I'm not offended by it, but I am no longer interested. Rumble was the first WWE brand PPV I had bought since the one after WM 20. I won't be buying this one. I won't be buying WM22. Not because of any great moral consternation, but because I have no interest in watching now that they've taken a storyline I was able to invest in as a viewer and pulled the rug out from underneath it.






spf, you won't be watching WM22 because the White Sox have opening night up against it. They could break out the time machine and bring out Flair, Steamboat, Thesz, Funk etc. from their primes for that night and the White Sox would still be the bigger priority.
As for this use of the Guerrero Family: Remember, Vince is the guy who began to solidify his heel turn in '97 by berating Pillman's widow live on RAW less than 48 hours after Pillman died. After that, nothing Vince does regarding deceased wrestlers and their families should be surprising.



Any complaints about the preceding post can be directed at the time traveling aliens who edited it.
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2498 days
Last activity: 2498 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.12
And you people think Vicky Guerrero is spending her Friday nights watching Smackdown these days? I doubt she has much, if any, knowledge of what's being said - aside from what WWE told her: "we're going to have Randy Orton say Eddie is in hell, Rey stands up for Eddie, they have a match as a result, and it would be great if you and the kids could show up to show your support for Rey to sell the angle."

You guys seem to all think that WWE has to be really evil and blackmail Vicky in order to get her to agree - which we don't know that she has. I'm just saying she likely isn't watching, and since they're taking care of her and the kids (and probably a lot more things than we know about), I can see her being reciprocating about this.

And yes, this has already reached the level of "distasteful." That's coming from someone who's not up in arms over this.

(edited by chill on 11.2.06 1144)


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The 5th Horseman
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Since last post: 2814 days
Last activity: 2803 days
#15 Posted on
    Originally posted by Jonny_English
    The issue I have with it is that it's just not necessary. Orton doesn't need to rag on Eddie to get heat as a heel, and Rey sure doesn't need this to get over as a face. If their feud was sucking shit, and business *demanded* something drastic, then I could deal with it. As things stand, it's vulgar.

That's exactly my issue with this story also. It's just not necessary and is another showing of how pathetic and lazy the writing for the WWE is these days.

I would rather they not make it an issue at all, but if they must, then they should have stopped at getting Randy Orton to entice Rey into putting up his title shot. That's it, it's done, now let it go. What's the point of dragging it out further?

And, it just makes it even more sickening if the guy doing these sorry deeds (Randy Orton) is the one put over in the storyline.

Involving Eddie's widow would add another level of tastelessness to this. Involving Eddie's daughters would take this to unfathomable depths.

They didn't make a storyline out of the death of Owen Hart. Of course, that was back when the WWF writing was very good and didn't need that type of thing.

(edited by The 5th Horseman on 11.2.06 1313)
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 1823 days
Last activity: 1555 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.19
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    And those of Eddie's friends who have nothing to lose have been VERY vocal about their upset at the WWE's use of his legacy. Mick Foley is upset by it, enough so to write an article on WWE.com in which he says he was urged to voice his opinions by those backstage who felt that they didn't have the clout to say anything.


Foley is SO upset and disappointed with the WWE about it, he's still going to show up on RAW this Monday and probably work a match at Wrestlemania. So I question how upset he really is about it. Definitely not upset enough about it to take a stand and say he's not going to do work with them.
Sean Carless
Cotechino








Since: 30.9.03
From: Mean Streets of Canada

Since last post: 1444 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.41
    Originally posted by The 5th Horseman
    They didn't make a storyline out of the death of Owen Hart. Of course, that was back when the WWF writing was very good and didn't need that type of thing.


That, and the WWE was amidst a wrongful death lawsuit. Having heels make light of Owen's death wouldn't exactly benefit their cause.




THE IWC's FAVORITE SEAN



Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 16 hours
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.50
I don't care what Vicky, Chavo, Foley, or Rey himself think about this angle. *I* find it distasteful based on my own morals. I don't need to hear someone else say that they don't like it for me to decide that I no longer like it either.

It has nothing to do with the WWE "surprising" us. If they did this all the time I would still be offended. The man died for this sport and for this company because they were all too willing to turn a blind eye to his current medical problems. He thought all he could do was wrestle and they had no problem withholding any kind of Commissioner or G.M. job that would let him stay employeed, but not make them any money through PPV buys. Now they just can't wait to cash in a bigger buyrate by having the heel claiming that he's in hell (remember, in WWE-land, whoever wins the blowoff match was right), and basing their only major storyline going into Wrestlemania around his death.


Tribal Prophet
Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2110 days
Last activity: 1541 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.58
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Unless the WWE are trying to force the Guerreros there by saying they have to live out his contract, doesn't their presence indicate at least a tacit approval of the use of Eddie's name?


It doesn't necessarily have to be an issue of coersion. Vince may have asked the Guerreros to attend because they're doing a Rey vs. Orton match with Rey fighting for Eddie's memory. And nothing else. The Guerreros would naturally assume Rey's supposed to go over (since that finish, you know, makes sense), and agree without explicitly being told that the point is to have a shot of their shocked faces when Orton wins.

I'm sure Vicki approves of using Eddie's memory to push characters who love Eddie, and not so much to push characters who crap on him. So the fact that she's agreed to attend only tells me that she thinks Rey's going to win the match. She may be right (Vince may have had a wake-up call and changed the finish), but she may also have been misled. Remember how GLAAD totally approved of the Billy/Chuck wedding because WWE didn't tell them how it was going to play out?
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 46 min.
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
I want to know why everyone is so damn certain Rey's going to loose to Orton? If the WWE wants to put out a memorable moment at WrestleMania this year, Rey overcoming all odds to win the championship in Eddie's memory would really fit the bill. Especially considering Eddie's memorial show, where I remember a couple people mentioning Eddie was destined for another title run. This would be a great way of giving it to him posthumously. And before people start saying no one would believe Rey as champ, I tell you now that I believe Stevie Richards could beat HHH in the center of the ring as long as it's at WrestleMania. That's the magic of WrestleMania. People might not buy it more than just that one night, but they'll believe he can do it there.
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I prefer to find the recurring "Ratings Love" threads on tOA. The latest one is at http://www.otherarena.com/cgi/post.cgi?72418&1&4&wwe and it says SD! got a 3.3. This is a problem because it's among the lowest ratings ever.
- CRZ, Ratings problems? (2002)
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