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The W - Pro Wrestling - WWE closes The World (the restaurant, not the planet) (Page 2)
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mrwrestlingfan2
Cotechino








Since: 26.2.03
From: Virginia

Since last post: 4278 days
Last activity: 4255 days
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#21 Posted on
Manhunt or whatever that was - Failed

I read when UPN told WWE that the whole show was going to be a fake show and the winner would know ahead of time WWE pulled out. One of the smart moves they made.
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3808 days
Last activity: 3278 days
AIM:  
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13

      Originally posted by spf2119
      Can one of the better WWE apologists on the board please tell me why this should not be taken as a bad sign?


    Given the current state of the internet, the impending death of WWE would seem to be cause for celebration.

    -Patrick



Is anyone really stupid enough to think that the WWE is going to go out of business any time soon? 'cause I have a lot of swampland and bridges to sell.

The WWE is NOT WCW, lads n' lassies. It's not owned by a gigantic corporation that's going to kill it off as soon as it stops making x percent profit. It's owned by Vince McMahon. As long as it remains one of the highest-rated shows on cable, makes money, and/or Vince is alive, it'll be around. Stop fooling yourselves and screaming "THE END IS NIGH" trying to get some kind of smark cred. You look about as stupid as the people who bought up all that canned food and bottled water thinking the Y2K bug was going to bring society to its knees.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 4 hours
AIM:  
#23 Posted on
In response to Nate...Going out of business strikes me as unlikely. However, major downsizing in the next few years does strike me as likely. The 3rd qtr financials just came out, and in almost every area the company revenues are declining. Right now the WWE is a company mostly still operating in the 1999 Monday Night Wars, must compete with Turner paradigm. In order to survive, they will likely have to downscale a lot of things, moving to smaller arenas and smaller contracts. When the current tv deal ends, they will likely get a much less positive deal with Viacom, though I suspect they will get one. UPN and Smackdown are dependent on many other forces which are beyond the control of WWE, however they could have a major impact. If UPN should be folded or altered, Smackdown could disappear, which would cause great problems for the split, which would cause great problems for the two touring halves of the comapny rationale.

I know no one from the outside can pull the plug on WWE. I just wonder, considering how averse to change Vince has shown himself to be over the years, whether they can adapt well enough to avoid shooting themselves in the foot often enough that they cannot walk. I hope they can. I have watched WWF(E) for 20 years. I hope to watch it for another 20. But every time that the money from the wrestling end goes into another project that Vince knows jack about, I worry. The only man who could ever truly kill WWE is Vince, and he's also one of the better men for the job I fear.



The Most Bitter Place On The Net.

The current artist tickling my fancy: Brenda Weiler


Immortality
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2929 days
Last activity: 2722 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54

    Originally posted by mrwrestlingfan2
    Manhunt or whatever that was - Failed

    I read when UPN told WWE that the whole show was going to be a fake show and the winner would know ahead of time WWE pulled out. One of the smart moves they made.



I think the WWE worked that story to their advantage.
They supposedly had dozens of great ideas for shows.
What happened to all the others? Only "Tough Enough"
has made it to air and that was an obvious concept.
In the wake of the XFL, Vince has no credibility.

It will be interesting to see if Shane can produce
anything with the new WWE movie production angle.
I guess we'll know when Ross and Lawler suddenly
start hyping a new movie on RAW the way Heenan and
Monsoon began hyping Lalond vs Leonard years ago.

As for the WWE going out of business, with that much
cash on hand it won't happen any time soon, but they
have already scaled back to some smaller buildings
and will continue to do so. Looks like it's back to
those smoke filled war memorials for Horatio McMahon.

Frank

(Hey Vince, if we liked boxing so much, we probably
wouldn't be watching pro wrestling. Also anyone who
knew boxing knew that fight was a turkey, except for
the money mark who agreed to promote it. What?)
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#25 Posted on


    I guess we'll know when Ross and Lawler suddenly start hyping a new movie on RAW the way Heenan and Monsoon began hyping Lalond vs Leonard years ago.


Maybe I was too young to remember, but I don't recall THAT much hype. Now the WBF, on the other hand...

Besides, should we automatically infer WWE involvement in "Old School," given the Nowinski/Okerlund spots during "SmackDown!?" Or is that different because (a) it's limited to a single spot during a two hours show or (b) Nowinski and Okerlund are far down the food chain of hype compared to Ross and Lawler?



©CRZ™
Simba
Frankfurter








Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

Since last post: 2564 days
Last activity: 2172 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
I would semi-frequent WWFNY a when I worked in Manhattan a few years ago. Certainly not the best food, but the bar was adequate enough. Plus, they had a dish, so I'd usually head over there to catch an out of town game. (It was better than fighting the crowds across the street at ESPNZone)
I'm heading to NYC next weekend and I was going to take my lady-friend for her innaugural visit to The World. Bad timing, for sure. Oh well, I hope she likes my backup plan. (Flashdancers)



Steph is big, but so is Dom DeLuise. And really, who doesn't enjoy "Fatso" now and again?
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 539 days
Last activity: 539 days
#27 Posted on
With the World gone, where will RAW XX come from?
Now, onto the financial reports, looking at the numbers that mean the most to the long-term health of the company.
Revenues: down 5 million from similar quarter last year.
Attendance: Down 73,000 from similar quarter last year, including the international tour that bumped up attendance.
PPV Buy Rate: 1.3 million, down from 1.6 million similar quarter previous year.
(Source: BusinessWire).

The last number should be the one of greatest concern. Dropping from an average of 530,000 buys per ppv (approximate), down to 430,000 buys per ppv (approximate), is a damaging sign. It shows that not only has the casual viewer departed via the lower ratings, but the viewer who would spend the money to buy ppvs and other ancillary products has departed as well. The approximate 18-20% drop in PPV buys in similar quarters is a disconcerting sign (and remember, these numbers both factor in post 9/11 situations, thus the changed atmosphere is evident in both sets of numbers). Losing the casual fans, that can be survived. But it appears that the base is beginning to dissipate as well, which is of a greater long term detriment.



The only military skill provided by the French is demonstrating the methods of surrendering.
HairRaiser
Kishke








Since: 13.1.03
From: S. Attleboro, MA

Since last post: 2670 days
Last activity: 2005 days
#28 Posted on

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    With the World gone, where will RAW XX come from?


How about Tough Enough 4 (assuming they're going to do one)?

PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
#29 Posted on
Any other company making the same boneheaded mistakes that WWE has made over the past two years, by all rights, SHOULD be dead. Good thing Uncle Vinnie saved his money.

-Patrick
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 539 days
Last activity: 539 days
#30 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    Any other company making the same boneheaded mistakes that WWE has made over the past two years, by all rights, SHOULD be dead. Good thing Uncle Vinnie saved his money.

    -Patrick







Actually, its good thing Uncle Vinnie found a bunch of suckers at 24 bucks a share when the initial IPO was released. If not for drawing in those initial suckers, these losses would start to really hurt the McMahon's.



The only military skill provided by the French is demonstrating the methods of surrendering.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
#31 Posted on

    Originally posted by Nate The Snake

      Originally posted by PowerPB13

        Originally posted by spf2119
        Can one of the better WWE apologists on the board please tell me why this should not be taken as a bad sign?


      Given the current state of the internet, the impending death of WWE would seem to be cause for celebration.

      -Patrick



    Is anyone really stupid enough to think that the WWE is going to go out of business any time soon? 'cause I have a lot of swampland and bridges to sell.

    The WWE is NOT WCW, lads n' lassies. It's not owned by a gigantic corporation that's going to kill it off as soon as it stops making x percent profit. It's owned by Vince McMahon. As long as it remains one of the highest-rated shows on cable, makes money, and/or Vince is alive, it'll be around. Stop fooling yourselves and screaming "THE END IS NIGH" trying to get some kind of smark cred. You look about as stupid as the people who bought up all that canned food and bottled water thinking the Y2K bug was going to bring society to its knees.




Nate, as much as doubt the WWE will go out of business anytime soon, I think we are much more likely to see that happen now than we would have in, say, 1995 when business was in the toilet. And the reason I think that is because in 1995 it was a wrestling company. They made wrestling shows. That was it. They had a smaller payroll and they were on a network that they had a long-standing relationship with and took care of them (except for the occasional tennis tournament and dog show).

Now, we have stockholders who Vince has to answer to. We have various new divisions, like music and film and new media, and none of these are turning a significant profit and I'd be surprised if they aren't losing money. Not to mention, squandered funds on the XFL, The World, the Casino, and WWE Niagra Falls which will possibly go the way of the New York eatery. Also consider a greatly expanded payroll, literally hundreds more employees than before (and not just in the aforementioned new divisions, but in the base TV production areas as well), and new networks on cable and network television that have no loyalty to the WWE itself and will drop it on its ass once it becomes problematic and unprofitable.

That, sir, is a problem. Now, unlike in 1995 when all Vince had to do was stop the bleeding in a single area, the wrestling product; we're in 2003. And in 2003, the WWE is bleeding in a lot more places than before. That's what scares me. Sometimes expansion is the worst idea, especially when you're Vince McMahon, a guy who has only succeeded when he's been able to attach himself to the biggest stars ever seen in the business. Honestly, look at Hogan's run, Austin's run, and Rocky's. I feel any remotely competent promoter could have made a lot of money off these guys.


















"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3808 days
Last activity: 3278 days
AIM:  
#32 Posted on
I won't deny that profits are declining. However, they're a long way from being in the red, especially to the degree that WCW was, which was the contributing factor to their demise (that, and Vince outbidding the people who were trying to buy them out and keep them alive).

All they need to do, if things continue their downturn, is cut costs (the music and film departments will likely be the first to go, given their lack of success. New media might hang around a bit longer) and make a few changes creatively. The WWE may wind up on another network, it may go back to one major show a week, it may even wind up the personal playground for HHH. But it'll still be here, and I'll wager it will be for a long time to come.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2929 days
Last activity: 2722 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
    Originally posted by CRZ


      I guess we'll know when Ross and Lawler suddenly start hyping a new movie on RAW the way Heenan and Monsoon began hyping Lalond vs Leonard years ago.


    Maybe I was too young to remember, but I don't recall THAT much hype. Now the WBF, on the other hand...

    Besides, should we automatically infer WWE involvement in "Old School," given the Nowinski/Okerlund spots during "SmackDown!?" Or is that different because (a) it's limited to a single spot during a two hours show or (b) Nowinski and Okerlund are far down the food chain of hype compared to Ross and Lawler?



The Leonard-Lalonde fight took place in 1988, so it was the first major cross-promotional effort by impresario Vince. Maybe Heenan and Monsoon only plugged the show once or twice per week, every week for a month or more leading up to the fight, but that sort of behavior was unprecedented and pretty transparent. Neither of them cared enough about boxing to discuss upcoming matches on their wrestling show prior to that fight but suddenly they were "excited" about seeing Leonard vs Lalonde.

Like all of Vince's other cross-promotional ventures, it seemed like he assumed his marks would follow him into whatever product he wanted to sell. That disrespectful, dishonest carny approach is why his outside ventures have failed so spectacularly. Instead of making an effort to appeal to existing fans of his outside ventures, Vince tries to gull his wrestling fans into buying something they may not care about at all. So far it hasn't worked very well, but I expect a lot of Ross/Lawler level hype for any eventual WWE movie productions.

Frank


(edited by Boston Idol on 26.2.03 1612)
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