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21.8.14 0321
The W - Pro Wrestling - Wrestling with Manhood - Boys, Bullying and Battering
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InVerse
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Since: 26.8.02

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
Wrestling with Manhood: Boys, Bullying and Battering

Let me start off by saying that this documentary was NOT an anti-wrestling piece. They don't try to blame wrestling for the problems of violence, but seem to be seeking a link between a culture that harbors such violence and also enjoys professional wrestling. I'd venture to say that the documentary actually has less negative things to say about the product in general than the average Raw Review thread on Wienerboard.

I've decided to recap each of the 6 segments, going over the major points made by the film, then put my own comments after that, rather than interject my own personal feelings into the "review". They obviously did a lot of legitimate research for this video, as all of the information presented seemed to be accurate and they seemed to have a good understanding of the storylines they discussed, not just rehashing second hand information.


The documentary starts off with filmmaker Sut Jhally talking about how people would laugh when he told them he was doing a documentary about professional wrestling, asking how he could take it seriously. He responds by talking about the size of the professional wrestling industry, the millions of people who watch it every week and the hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, touching on house shows and merchandising, as well as mainstream appearances by wrestlers on talk shows and other programming. He also explains that wrestling today is a far cry from professional wrestling in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s.


Happy and Escalating Violence
The first segment focuses on the violent aspect of professional wrestling. They discuss children imitating what they see on television and also talk about backyard wrestling. Wrestling is referred to as 'cartoons for adults' and they compare the wrestlers coming back from severe physical assaults without a scratch to the cartoon characters who are blown up in one scene and perfectly fine in the next. George Gerbner, PhD refers to this as 'happy violence', where violence is shown for the sake of entertainment and the actual consequences of violence are glossed over or ignored. They talk about how skilled professional wrestlers are in making moves look absolutely devastating without any actual harm coming to either competitor, also showing a clip from Tough Enough where Tori explains to the contestants that a wrestler isn't just responsible for his own safety, but that of his opponents.

Next, they show the scene from Beyond The Mat with Mick Foley's kids at the 1999 Royal Rumble, where Mick and The Rock are backstage, explaining to the kids that they're really friends and they're just going to pretend to beat each other up, that The Rock won't *really* be hurting Mick, they're just playing. Mick asks his kids repeatedly to make sure they understand it's not real, yet once the match begins, the kids are in tears and screaming for their daddy after seeing The Rock hitting him with a chair. As the narrators point out, if Mick Foley's kids, who were just backstage and shown that it was all fake, can't see through the illusion, how can you expect other children who are just there to see the show to do so?

At this point, they also show a lot of Foley's hardcore stuff and talk about the escalation of violence in professional wrestling. The mention who it's went from just punching each other, to hitting each other with chairs, using tables, ladders, throwing people off of cages and even running them over with cars. The section ends as they wonder how the combination of 'happy violence' with constantly escalating violence effects the viewers.


Making Men: Glamorizing Bullying
This segment focuses on the connection between manhood and violence. It talks a lot about how the only way you can prove your manhood in professional wrestling is with physical violence, which is in stark contrast to reality where going around beating people up would get you labeled immature (among other things.) At the beginning of this segment, the narrators explicit state that they don't believe professional wrestling is the cause of violence in the world, but are instead examining wrestling to see why it is that people enjoy this sort of entertainment. (They also show a fight clip from Jerry Springer.)

At this point, they focus on bullying. They talk about how wrestlers constantly try to humiliate one another and also how group domination, where several people work together to single out and punish someone who's viewed as weaker, is a common occupance in professional wrestling. They talk about how childhood bullying is on the rise in America, once again not blaming this on professional wrestling but wondering if there's a correlation in the popularity of pro wrestling and increase in bullying.

At this point, they spend some time focusing on Stone Cold Steve Austin and talking about how he is the ultimate bully. Among other things, they show clips of Austin attacking Michael Cole and the Two Man Power Trip brutalizing Lita with a steel chair. They talk about how Austin became so popular with the fans that the company was forced to turn him face. They talk about how, particularly with Austin, actions that were once viewed as the machinations of evil heels are now cheered while they're being perpetrated by faces. They talk about how Austin is viewed as an Everyman that the fans want to identify with (including several clips of fans saying things to support this) and question what it is that causes people to identify with, and wish they could be like, an obvious bully.


Homophobia: Construing Heterosexuality
The third segment focuses on homophobia in professional wrestling. It starts off talking about the obvious homoeroticism of professional wrestling, with scantily clad men rolling around together. Then comes a video where they show various clips, not only of matches but also of interviews, set to an extremely "gay" song.

After this, they talk about how, due to the underlying homoeroticism, wrestling has to make an effort to distance itself from homosexuality. They talk about how in the real world, they'd do this by calling each other fags, but since they can't use that language on mainstream television, the term they utilize in it's place is bitch. This is followed by several clips of wrestlers threatening to make another wrestler his bitch.

They talk about heels as homosexuals and how Goldust was the most prevalent example of this in recent years. They also talk about Billy and Chuck and how, while the wrestlers didn't outright criticize their homosexuality, they would constantly make fun of them and insinuate they weren't real men. A point is made about how one way in which wrestlers assert their heterosexuality by questioning other people's. They show clips from the Roddy Piper/Goldust match where Piper stripped Goldust down to reveal he was wearing lingerie and also played the segment where HHH was making fun of Kurt Angle for crying after winning Olympic gold.


Divas: Sex and Male Fantasy
Segment number 4 focuses on the degradation of women in professional wrestling. It starts out with fans talking about how even though the women were fighting, it was like they could kiss at any moment, claiming that the average divas match for men was merely softcore porn. They talk about how parents would never take their kids to a strip club but have no problem subjecting them to the sexual overtones of professional wrestling. They talk about the Ho-Train and then go into Bra & Panties matches as well as the various food matches and paddle matches. They also mention that there are some women who are put out there as strong role models and not purely sex objects, specifically referencing Chyna and also showing a clip of Lita. Then they talk about how the women are often used to distract male wrestlers, playing clips of Stacy using her ass to distract wrestlers. Implants are discussed and they show several clips of pre and post-op Chyna, talking about how it wasn't good enough for them that she was a physically dominant female, how they had to mold her into the "right type" of female, including clips of her talking about how a few years before, guys were afraid of her but now she had no problems finding suitors. They end this segment talking about how most divas are nothing more than 1-dimensional objects.


Normalizing Gender Violence
Now, the focus turns to male-on-female violence. They start out showing various spots where male wrestlers attack females. Again, they point out that professional wrestling isn't responsible for violence in the real world, but suggests that it contributes to it by justifying such violence. They show various clips of wrestlers forcibly kissing female wrestlers and then show various spots where the announcers are claiming a particular female (usually Stephanie in regards to HHH) deserved the violent beatings they were receiving. They take a moment to focus on the spot where Dean Malenko kissed an unconscious Lita and Lawler is going on and on about how the obviously incapacitated Lita enjoyed it. They talk quite a bit about the end of the HHH/Stephanie on-screen marriage and how the announcers claiming Stephanie deserved the beating she got from HHH mirrored the claims of real life spousal abusers claiming that their spouse deserved the abuse. Next, they show Austin being verbally abusive to Debra and talk about how shortly thereafter, he was arrested for physically abusing her in real life. They also show the police report from that incident, where the officer stated that Debra had a large welt under her eye and several marks on her back where she had been "punched repeatedly."

After this, they talk about non-violent sexual harassment, which of course focuses on Vince's character. After showing various clips of this, they focus on the infamous Vince/Trish "bark like a dog" segment, which they describe as "one of the most disturbing scenes ever witnessed on television." Most disturbingly of all, they point out how the crowd is usually cheering during pieces like this. They talk to people outside of the arena after the show and many of them say how they see absolutely nothing wrong with their 7 or 8 year old child seeing these things.


It's Only Entertainment
In the final segment, they talk about how naysayers will brush them off, claiming it's only entertainment. They once again admit that people aren't watching wrestling and then going out and committing violent acts, but say that this isn't the only problem. They talk about how comedians in the 1930s would tell anti-Semitic jokes and the people that laughed at them weren't the ones who went out and started massacring the Jews, but that they were the people who simply stood there and let it happen. They state that of course we're not dealing with a holocaust here, but the cause and effect example still stands. They mention how it's impossible to take a stand against something you laugh at.

Finally, they talk about how Vince and the WWE have pulled off the ultimate sham, where people worship them as rebels, yet they're the exact opposite. They say that the WWE doesn't do anything rebellious, that by catering to exactly what people want, expressing values that were ideal in the 1950s, the WWE is actually extremely conservative. They finish up by pointing out that if the WWE was actually rebellious, they would try defending women's or homosexual rights instead of rallying against them.


Okay, now for my own personal reactions...

In regards to the escalating violence, it's clear that professional wrestling has taken things so far that things that seemed absolutely brutal a few years ago are passe now. As one of the fans stated, about the only thing they could do to make things more extreme would be to shoot someone, and they've already damn near did that anyway. Violence is obviously an integral part of professional wrestling, but there's nowhere left to go with it. It seems the WWE wants to go with a slower-paced, lower-impact style for the sake of the talents' health, but focusing on technical wrestling and having guys seeking to prove they're the best would allow them to get away from the brutality for awhile so that when someone goes through a table, they don't need to recap it after the commercial break just so people will remember it happened.

The part about Foley's kids was an excellent point too. Sure, they were effected so greatly because it was their father who was being brutalized, but young kids like that just aren't capable of understanding that what they're seeing isn't as real as it appears. I've seen Beyond The Mat on a couple of occasions (including in the theater) and watching Mick Foley's kids bawling as their dad is being beaten with a steel chair still got to me.

In regards to bullying, while they vaguely referenced it, I think they really missed out on one major point here. They showed Austin brutalizing Michael Cole and they showed HHH/Austin destroying Lita with a steel chair (a segment I remember being pissed off about when it happened) but what they didn't really touch on was that even after doing things like that, Austin was still able to jump back to being a good guy with no repercussions at all. With all of the constant face/hell changes, this sort of thing happens far to often. Sure, the WWE can't control the fans reaction by any means, but they can control how the other characters react. Remember when the Big Show attacked Rey Mysterio on the stretcher and all of the wrestlers, face and heel alike, shunned him on the next Smackdown? We should see more of that. When a wrestler has done countless reprehensible things, it should take a hell of a lot more than coming to someone's aid one time for them to be forgiven. That's one thing I really like in TNA, how Trinity is still shunning Kid Kash because of the way he treated her before, even though they're on the same side again.

Not much I can add to the segment on the treatment of homosexuals. The rampant homophobia among the WWE and it's fans is downright pathetic. Has there ever been a gay babyface in mainstream professional wrestling? If the WWE wants to do something truly revolutionary, there you go. And don't play him up like some feminine pansy ala Rico (not to diss Rico, I quite enjoy his character) but just have a wrestler who seems to be identical to any other wrestler, except that he's not into women. Hell, you could have a heel turn face just by agreeing to wrestle the guy after all the rest of the heels refuse to get into the ring with him, then when the gay character wins and his opponent gets ridiculed, have him tell them that none of them could beat him either, thus getting them to challenge him and lose, shutting up their bigotry.

I do have to say, however, that the video piece of wrestling clips set to "feminine" music was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in regards to professional wrestling. I'm going to find someway to rip this to digital and put it up on the 'net for everyone to enjoy. (Before I get bombarded with instructions on how to do this, I know *how* to do it, I just don't have the equipment.) At the very least, I feel obligated to supply a copy of this bit to DEAN, as I have a feeling it may embody the very essence of why he watches professional wrestling.

Just like with the general bullying, the male on female violence doesn't have enough repercussions. The occasional spot where a female character attempts to interfere in a match and pays for it is one thing, but male characters, especially faces, attacking females simply because they don't get their way should not be done unless the male character is going to suffer consequences as a result. The fact that Steve Austin can attack a woman because she doesn't want to drink a beer with him.. and the fans support it.. is just downright disgusting. I had already taken a 2 week sabbatical from wrestling when I decided to give it a try one more time. I turned on the TV just in time to catch that particular segment and it was 2 months before I tuned in to Raw again.

And the fact that parents think it's okay for their children to watch this disturbs me deeply. "Oh, it's okay for them to see it because it's fake." Well, 90% of what you see in most porn movies is fake too, why not let your kids watch porn as well? What's the difference?

All in all, I'd say the documentary presented the information in a fair and balanced manner. Sut Jhally claims he's not a film maker, he's a teacher who makes documentaries as a way of sparking discussions. He certainly made a lot of interesting points that I think need to be considered, not just by the industry but by the fans as well. As the film points out many times, professional wrestling isn't the cause of the world's problems, but it sure as hell isn't doing anything to help solve them.
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Since: 7.2.04
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.05
Interesting sounding doc. I'm surprised the filmmaker didn't touch on how the industry often reinforces national stereotypes and cultural prejudice by using certain foreign characters as a shorthand formula for creating a heel. They've been doing this long enough... from well before the Iron Shiek right up to La Resistance today.



So sayeth Randy Stilton.
BWT
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Since: 27.1.04
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Very intresting first off where was this at as I have not seen any thing about this until now? Second, wrestling is what it is. I do think the business is a bit hipocritical in its nature due to the heel and face turns but when you got a guy like Austin going out on tv each week after he publicaly beat up his wife and drinks and drives on the tv shows and still gets cheered its not anything wrong with the product but us the fans.
ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
Yeah, wrestling and its fans suck! I wished it would all go away.....wait a minute, don't WE watch wrestling? Aren't WE fans? Are we being a little hypocritical here?

Keeping in mind I haven't seen this, it's hard to determine how exactly this documentary can be viewed as balanced given the desciption you have made. It looks like on pro-pro wrestling side you only have 'wrestling is not responsible', while the whole rest of the documentary is out to prove why wrestling is responsible for society's problems, at least partially so. It just doesn't look like just from the description that anyone inside the wrestling industry would say "Wow, must admit, he gave our side of the story, it was 50-50 all the way". I also can't read the description and conclude that its anything but an anti-wrestling piece. Justified or not, it clearly was made to point out all the things that are wrong about wrestling today.

I also would state that I don't watch wrestling to be preached to. Preachy shows are just not fun to watch. I believe that the failure of Ellen's primetime sitcom TV show was not due to the fact that she came out of the closet, it was that the show decided not to be about being funny, but about being about Ellen's gayness, and why you just accept that. That's all fine and dandy, but people tuned into laugh, not to learn a life lesson. Note that Ellen now has a sucessful daytime show, because it's funny and entertaining, and not all about her gayness. The same thing should apply to wrestling. If they happen to have some angle that involves gayness that is entertaining and interesting, fine, run with it. But they shouldn't run a gay angle just for the sake of running a gay angle, to teach us all a great morale lesson. That's not why I watch, and I'm pretty sure that's not why most others watch either.

I'm also curious as how the producer justified the claim that "childhood bullying" (whatever that means) is on the rise. Or did he even bother?

If you are holding your breath waiting for wrestling to actually solve the world's problems, you must think it's a lot more powerful than I do. I think it is just wrestling, just another couple of TV shows (among other TV shows in which many of the same things that is stated about wrestling could be stated about the other shows), and not really all that important in the grand scheme of things.





(edited by ges7184 on 15.2.04 0028)


Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
Stilton
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Since: 7.2.04
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.05
On the one hand, if someone wants to make a sociological study of the wrestling industry, I'd welcome it. I would just think it's great that anyone takes the business seriously enough to study it.

On the other hand, you do have things like homophobia, bullying, violence, kids getting injured mimicking wrestling moves, etc. But does wrestling cause these things? Noooooo... Morons cause these things. I would defend wrestling with the same rhetoric that people use to defend edgier hip-hop. Just because something is "about" nasty things, it doesn't mean it endorses that nastiness, or causes it; it's just a reflection of the nastiness that already exists in society.

People who are afraid of what wrestling will do to “the children” are the same ignoramuses who are afraid of what Janet Jackson's right tit will do to the children. Honestly, what’s more fucked up? A little nudity on TV? Or telling kids that breasts are dirty-dirty filthy?

And what’s more fucked up? A form of entertainment that’s basically a clown-show (and don’t forget, clown-shows are VI-O-LENT!) with some stunts and storylines thrown in? Or an episode of Law and Order SVU filled with all kinds of kidnapping and rape and shit?

If people are worried about their kids being exposed to negative stimuli, there are hundreds of worse offenders than pro wrestling, and I, for one, would start the finger-pointing directly at the nightly news.




So sayeth Randy Stilton.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.49
I said it before:

http://wienerboard.com/ thread.php/id=16644#199234



I'd tell you to kiss my ass, but I don't want to get it infected.
Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.27
Considering one of the top people in the company (Pat Patterson) is openly gay, I wouldn't exactly call WWE homophobic.




There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
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Since: 19.6.03
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.16
One thing that I am surprised by is the argument that if we laugh at the things we fear we allow them to continue. I've never heard such an argument before in my life. In fact, typically it has been suggested that one of the great elements of humor is that once something is laughed at it no longer has the power to enslave us. That has always been a cornerstone of humor in any culture (and why humor and pain tend to relate so much to each other).

It just seems to be like they came to the conclusion that wrestling shouldn't be taken seriously . . . and thus - in order to make a point about how evil wrestling can ultimately be - must make the conclusion that became it cannot be taken seriously, it must contribute to an overall sense of evil in the world.

Mind, I haven't seen the documentary; I'm only going on what has been presented above; but it reeks of the classic falicy of clinical studies - finding the effect before finding the cause (i.e. wrestling is bad, therefore we must conclude it is bad in our study . . . somehow).
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25
    Originally posted by BWT
    but when you got a guy like Austin going out on tv each week after he publicaly beat up his wife and drinks and drives on the tv shows and still gets cheered its not anything wrong with the product but us the fans.


To an extent, I agree. People who cheer for that sort of thing need a serious mental evaluation. On the other hand, the WWE keeps putting that sort of thing out there in a manner that makes it okay to cheer for it. Why shouldn't the fans have cheered when Austin assualted Stacy? They've seen Austin and other wrestlers beat up women all the time and it's always been justified, so it must have been okay this time too.

    Originally posted by ges7184
    Justified or not, it clearly was made to point out all the things that are wrong about wrestling today.


No, it was made to point out the things that are wrong with society today which are mirrored in professional wrestling. It repeatedly stated (as I said) that it was trying to determine what it was that drew society to watch the sort of things displayed in professional wrestling.


    I also would state that I don't watch wrestling to be preached to.


It's perfectly possible to put forth a moral story without preaching it.


    I'm also curious as how the producer justified the claim that "childhood bullying" (whatever that means) is on the rise. Or did he even bother?


With statistics regarding the number of reported bullying cases and other such statistics. But fuck, all you have to do is look at the world today and it's clear that things are a lot worse than they were 20 years ago.

    Originally posted by Stilton
    And what’s more fucked up? A form of entertainment that’s basically a clown-show (and don’t forget, clown-shows are VI-O-LENT!) with some stunts and storylines thrown in? Or an episode of Law and Order SVU filled with all kinds of kidnapping and rape and shit?


At least with crime dramas, the people doing bad things aren't being glorified as heroes. I don't recall anyone being kidnapped or raped on a crime drama and the police saying "Oh, well that's okay because the victim deserved it." WWE might not have done rape yet, but we certainly have seen justified kidnappings on many occasions.

    Originally posted by Mild Mannered Madman
    Considering one of the top people in the company (Pat Patterson) is openly gay, I wouldn't exactly call WWE homophobic.


The company? No. The content? Absolutely. I don't believe Vince McMahon is really a racist, either, but you could argue otherwise regarding the content of the shows.

Also, something I forgot to mention in the original posting that I meant to put out there purely for the curious... 99% of the clips used are from the WWE. There were maybe 3 or 4 WCW clips and 1 ECW clip.

And if anybody wants to see a copy of the documentary, I taped it off. PM me if you want to arrange to get a copy. (And no, I'm not going to sell it or even trade for it.)

Edit: Putting my paragraphs into the order they make sense, instead of the order I managed to cut and paste them in.

(edited by InVerse on 15.2.04 0958)
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
"No, it was made to point out the things that are wrong with society today which are mirrored in professional wrestling. It repeatedly stated (as I said) that it was trying to determine what it was that drew society to watch the sort of things displayed in professional wrestling."

The problem with this is that the things pointed out here are not problems in society. Male-on-female violence is frowned upon and punished. Problems are not solved through violence. There really isn't much in the way of homophobia in society today (isn't Queer Eye a TV phenomenon?)

No, this reflects badly on wrestling and its fans. It suggests that since such behavior is accepted in wrestling fantasy world, it must be accepted in our real lifes as well. At best, we wouldn't look down upon it, much like those who laughed at anti-semitic allowed the Jews to be massacred. We apparently would allow for women to get beat, for problems to be solved through fights, for gays to be bashed. Oh, it's not our fault, it's just our fault for NOT stopping it! Me, I'm not going to make any moral judgement on the basis of what somebody may cheer in a fantasy environment, whether that environment is a TV show, movie, or play. I think most people know the difference between fantasy and real-life, and react accordingly. For example, I've been a fan of Ric Flair most of my life. But that doesn't mean I condone cheating in real life, even though Ric Flair for most of his career was 'the dirtiest player in the game'.

"It's perfectly possible to put forth a moral story without preaching it."

While it is perfectly possible, I think wrestling's only obligation is to create interesting stories. I don't think they should go on some moral crusade just for the sake moral crusade.

"With statistics regarding the number of reported bullying cases and other such statistics. But fuck, all you have to do is look at the world today and it's clear that things are a lot worse than they were 20 years ago."

I'm curious as to what constitutes "bullying"? I wouldn't mind knowing the sources of the stats either, but I can probably find them myself if "bullying" is defined.

Also, I reject the notion that things are a lot worse that they were 20 years ago. I think by and large things are better. We may think that they are worse, given that there are so many more sources of information these days, with several 24 hour news networks and the internet. But I don't think that's actually the case; I'm not sure that claim could be backed up with anything.







Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
Yeah, I wish we could turn the clock back and go back to the GOOD OL' DAYS where women knew their place barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, when we didn't have to associate with other races, when it was A-OK to beat the shit out of a woman as long as you were married to her, when children were abused constantly in classrooms and thier homes, and on and on and on...

THERE WERE NO GOOD OL' DAYS!

It's not up to WWE to parent children. They're on cable and they have a rating. Parents are forewarned what the program will contain. If you think your child isn't smart enough to differentiate between what's on TV and what's acceptable and legal in society, then either don't let them watch or ... or ... or ... teach them the difference.
Fezzik
Loukanika








Since: 17.2.03
From: Edmonton, AB

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#12 Posted on
[People who are afraid of what wrestling will do to “the children” are the same ignoramuses who are afraid of what Janet Jackson's right tit will do to the children. Honestly, what’s more fucked up? A little nudity on TV? Or telling kids that breasts are dirty-dirty filthy?


And what’s more fucked up? A form of entertainment that’s basically a clown-show (and don’t forget, clown-shows are VI-O-LENT!) with some stunts and storylines thrown in? Or an episode of Law and Order SVU filled with all kinds of kidnapping and rape and shit?



I'm afraid I don't buy much of the logic here. The Janet Jackson comments I agree with but I don't really see how they apply in this case. As far as Law & Order, the whole point of the show is crime & punishment. It's about being held accountable for one's actions, something which is missing in pro-wrestling.




It is better to be silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Homer: "I better say something or they'll think I'm stupid"

Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.05
    Originally posted by Fezzik
    I'm afraid I don't buy much of the logic here. The Janet Jackson comments I agree with but I don't really see how they apply in this case. As far as Law & Order, the whole point of the show is crime & punishment. It's about being held accountable for one's actions, something which is missing in pro-wrestling.





Well, in most of the world, there's no law against women revealing their breasts, because in most cultures, breasts aren't seen as obscene. It seems only the USA (and parts of Canada, it would seem) and some Muslim counties that make women cover even their faces are so puritanical in their fear of the human body. So there's some logic to think about.

As for crime and punishment, there are plenty of crime dramas on television which are, more and more, airing episodes where the criminal gets away with the crime. I imagine they are doing this to be more realistic, because in the real world, most murder cases do not end in convictions.

In wrestling, since it is a continuous narrative, like soap operas, the heels often "get theirs", but they have to be back in the ring at some point, because the story needs them.



So sayeth Randy Stilton.
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
    Originally posted by InVerse
    I think they really missed out on one major point here. They showed Austin brutalizing Michael Cole and they showed HHH/Austin destroying Lita with a steel chair (a segment I remember being pissed off about when it happened) but what they didn't really touch on was that even after doing things like that, Austin was still able to jump back to being a good guy with no repercussions at all. With all of the constant face/hell changes, this sort of thing happens far to often. Sure, the WWE can't control the fans reaction by any means, but they can control how the other characters react. Remember when the Big Show attacked Rey Mysterio on the stretcher and all of the wrestlers, face and heel alike, shunned him on the next Smackdown? We should see more of that. When a wrestler has done countless reprehensible things, it should take a hell of a lot more than coming to someone's aid one time for them to be forgiven. That's one thing I really like in TNA, how Trinity is still shunning Kid Kash because of the way he treated her before, even though they're on the same side again.



      THAT right there is what annoys me the most about the WWE these days. I got another recent example for ya, The McMahons. I remember (cause I got it on tape) when Steph actually slapped her mom TWICE. Then of course Steph was upset when her mom ruined her fake pregnancy plans.

      Then, last fall, there they are on Smackdown, getting along without any hostility. How did THAT happen? We don't know, it wasn't on screen, and you know what they say about when something happens in an angle off screen (i.e. house shows). Oh yeah, and the fact that after Vince shoved her, and made Bischoff force himself on her, and turned her into a vegetable, and sent her to a funny farm, and YET she's STILL MARRIED TO HIM (on screen)?!??!?!?!?!?! Whew, had to let that out. Oh yeah, this annoys me more than anything. There are plenty of other examples, but this is one that sticks out in my mind.



      After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...
      1)Ain't nothing like a Dirty Pair marathon on New Year's Eve.
      2)I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II.
      3) I'd make an acceptable Mrs. Orton.
      1400 reasons to luv me!
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Is it me, or did Jeff actually give Jericho the rub last night? Jericho has been in a funk for the last 6 weeks (thanks JBL), and needed that win to seem like a legit threat. I guess Jeff's elevation is working.
- kentish, RAW #770 2/25/08 (2008)
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