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The W - Pro Wrestling - Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame 2004
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Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.56
Inducted

Kazushi Sakuraba 118 votes 86% Percentage
Undertaker 118 votes 67%
Bob Backlund 110 votes 63%
Masahiro Chono 86 votes 63%
Ultimo Dragon 85 votes 62%
Kurt Angle 105 votes 60%

Missing the cut

HHH 103 votes 59%
Jesse Ventura 103 votes 59%
Don Frye 77 votes 56%
Kiyoshi Tamura 74 votes 54%
Hiroshi Hase 71 votes 52%
Gorilla Monsoon 85 votes 49%
Freebirds 76 votes 43%
Villano III 41 votes 43%
Masakatsu Funaki 57 votes 42%
Dick Murdoch 68 votes 39%
Paul Heyman 68 votes 39%
Aja Kong 53 votes 39%
Blue Panther 37 votes 39%
Carlos Calon 62 votes 35%
Don Owen 59 votes 34%
Owen Hart 58 votes 33%
Midnight Express 58 votes 33%
Jimmy Snuka 58 votes 33%
Eddy Guerrero 55 votes 31%
Volk Han 43 votes 31%
Roy Shire 53 votes 30%
Tim "Mr. Wrestling" Woods 51 votes 29%
Rock & Roll Express 50 votes 29%
Gene & Ole Anderson 43 votes 25%
Fabulous Moolah 43 votes 25%
Arn Anderson 40 votes 23%
Red Bastien 35 votes 20%
Jerry Jarrett 33 votes 19%
Bill Miller 33 votes 19%
Seiji Sakaguchi 25 votes 18%
Jun Akiyama 24 votes 18%
Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker 30 votes 17%
Curt Hennig 28 votes 16%
Don Muraco 28 votes 16%
Ivan Koloff 25 votes 14%
Sting 21 votes 12%
John Tolos 21 votes 12%
Wilbur Snyder 20 votes 11%

Eliminated because of less than 10% from next years ballot: Atlantis, Pepper Gomez, Black Gordman & Great Goliath, Gran Hamada, Original La Parka, The Great Sasuke, Mike & Ben Sharpe, Dr. Wagner, Jr.

Next year on the ballot: Chris Jericho, Ken Shamrock, Yoshihiro Takayama

Very interesting how Angle makes it over tons of people that have done so much more then he has. And worse yet to me is how far Sting has fallen in the voting, he is closer to being totally eliminated from the chance to be in the hall then he is to be in it. And how can HHH not be in the hall? I'm sure he will get in next year.
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91
I must be out of the loop- 1) who are the voters, 2) what are the credentials you need to be "on the ballot"?



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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1948 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
I was suprised that Hunter didn't make it in this year. However, considering he was only 2 votes shy, I'm sure he'll get in sooner rather than later.

geemoney, the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame is voted on by a selected group of current and past wrestlers, historians, and journalists. You must be either 35 years old or have been in the business 15 years to be elidgable for the Hall.



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Since: 16.8.04
From: Perth Australia

Since last post: 3032 days
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#4 Posted on
I hadnt known of the WOHOF till now and wondered what the Hall of Fame status of John '' Earthquake'' Tenta was?

Is he already in the WOHOF? Do you think if he is not he will be?

Will he be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame as well?

I know it will seem like a sympathy vote but maybe the realisation of losing someone focuses us on their record.

I did go to the Wrestling Observer website but couldnt see any info to help me.



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Since: 21.8.04
From: ...that would be telling

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Sympathy didn't get the Freebirds in as a tag team after Terry Gordy died, and they were much, much better candidates than Earthquake.



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Since: 13.5.04
From: DC

Since last post: 3662 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.64
I'm really shocked at how low Sting is. He's still over and he's been inactive for five years plus.

And I don't understand why MMA guys are ivolved. Don't they have their own Hall of Fame?

I love Y2J but if he gets in on his first year of eligibility, this thing loses all credibility.
OMEGA
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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1948 days
Last activity: 1916 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
Earthquake isn't in, and I doubt he will. The voters of the WON HOF are pretty careful about not letting sympathy get in the way. The only person I could see getting in due to sympathy is Owen Hart, and he was still 47 votes away from getting in this year.



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Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
KaneRobot
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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

Since last post: 2432 days
Last activity: 1725 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.18
What do the percentages mean? They obviously don't all add up to 100%.

I'm also kind of surprised Sting is so low. I'd certainly hope he makes it in before someone like Mr. Wrestling II or Don Frye. Ultimo Dragon is great, but it just seems odd that he's inducted before Sting.

(edited by KaneRobot on 24.8.04 2123)

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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
    Originally posted by KaneRobot
    What do the percentages mean? They obviously don't all add up to 100%.

    I'm also kind of surprised Sting is so low. I'd certainly hope he makes it in before someone like Mr. Wrestling II or Don Frye. Ultimo Dragon is great, but it just seems odd that he's inducted before Sting.

    (edited by KaneRobot on 24.8.04 2123)


Each voter is allowed to name up to 10 people on their ballot. The % is how many ballots had that person's name on it.

As for the Sting thing, the voters seem to be looking at it based on a combination of A) wrestling skill, B) drawing power (esp. on top), or C) impact on the industry. With Sting you have someone who was good and could work great with certain guys, who never really drew except for one run in which he really didn't do much and which due to politics never got to really go to fruition after Starrcade '97, and had no real impact on the industry. With Dragon, while I don't really think he ever had much drawing power, he was recognized for a good sized stretch as one of the best workers on the planet, and his influence (Toryumon, helping to bring the Jr. heavy style to America) was obviously considered worthy of induction.

To be fair, there does seem to be a certain bias towards Japanese wrestlers in the selection process. I think familiarity breeds a bit of contempt sometimes.

As for Sakuraba, as Meltzer often says, since Japan considers MMA to be part of the pro wrestling scene, Saku is eligible. And once you put him in the mix, he blows off the scale on drawing power and influence and is near the top in skill.



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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 486 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
I'm an Angle fan, but this soon into his career, he shouldn't be going into the Hall over Hennig, Colon and the Freebirds.



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Since: 27.1.04
From: Philly

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.56
Here is the rest of the hall and as you can see its a wide verity of wrestlers from all the territory's and representing all different styles. It has never really been broken down what is needed for the hall other then the said age or longevity requirement.

Perro Aguayo
Andre The Giant
Bert Assirati
Giant Baba
Fred Blassie
Nick Bockwinkel
Bobo Brazil
Jack Brisco
Bruiser Brody
Dick The Bruiser
Mildred Burke
Abdullah The Butcher
Canek
Negro Casas
Riki Choshu
Crusher Lisowski
Alfonso Dantes
Blue Demon
The Destroyer
Ted Dibiase
The Dusek Family Riot Squad
Jackie Fargo
Ric Flair
Tatsumi Fujinami
Dory Funk Jr.
Terry Funk
Verne Gagne
Cavernario Galindo
Ed Don George
Gorgeous George
Frank Gotch
Karl Gotch
"Superstar" Billy Graham
Rene Guajardo
Salvador "Gori" Guerrero
George Hackenschmidt
Stan Hansen
Bret Hart
Danny Hodge
Hulk Hogan
Antonio Inoki
Rayo De Jalisco
Tom Jenkins
Don Leo Jonathan
The Fabulous Kangaroos
Dynamite Kid
Gene Kiniski
Killer Kowalski
Ernie Ladd
Jerry Lawler
Ed "Strangler" Lewis
Jim Londos
Akira Maeda
Devil Masami
Mil Mascaras
Tiger Mask (Satoru Sayama)
Dump Matsumoto
Earl McCready
Leroy McGuirk
Danny McShane
Rey Mendoza
Mitsuharu Misawa
Bronko Nagurski
Pat O'Connor
Kintaro Oki
Atsushi Onita
Pat Patterson
John Pesek
Roddy Piper
Harley Race
Dusty Rhodes
Rikidozan
Yvon Robert
Antonino Rocca
Road Warriors
Billy Robinson
Buddy Rogers
Bruno Sammartino
El Santo
Jackie Sato
Randy Savage
The Sheik
Dara Singh
El Solitario
Rick Steamboat
Joe Stecher
Ray Steele
Ray Stevens
Nobuhiko Takada
Genichiro Tenryu
Lou Thesz
Jumbo Tsuruta
Mad Dog Vachon
Vader
Johnny Valentine
Fritz Von Erich
Whipper Billy Watson
Bill Watts
Jaguar Yokota
Stanislaus Zbyszko
Jim Barnett
Wild Red Berry
Paul Boesch
Jim Cornette
Dory Funk Sr.
Eddie Graham
Stu Hart
Bobby Heenan
Fred Kohler
Dick Lane
Salvador Lutteroth
Vince McMahon Jr.
Vince McMahon Sr.
Joe "Toots" Mondt
Sam Muchnick
Antonio Pena
Lance Russell
Billy Sandow
Hisashi Shinma
Gordon Solie
Tony Stecher
Frank Tunney
Edouard Carpentier
Toshiaki Kawada
Jimmy Lennon
William Muldoon
Chigusa Nagayo
El Hijo Del Santo
Dos Caras
Lioness Asuka
Jushin Liger
Keiji Mutoh
Jim Ross
Steve Austin
Mick Foley
Shinya Hashimoto
Bill Longson
Akira Hokuto
Frank Sexton
Sandor Szabo
Black Shadow
Lizmark
Bull Nakano
El Satanico
Diablo Velasco
Farmer Burns
Jack Curley
Kenta Kobashi
Wahoo McDaniel
Manami Toyota
Shawn Michaels
Chris Benoit
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Since: 13.5.04
From: DC

Since last post: 3662 days
Last activity: 3431 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.64
It's a shame Brody's murder keeps Colon out, but I can't necessarily disagree with the voters. It's good to see Roy Stevens in. California wrestling would be nothing without him and Pat Patterson (all jokes aside please.)

However, if MMA is fair game where is Royce Gracie? He pretty much introduced MMA to American audiences and was dominant in North America for a while. And Shamrock should be a shoo-in.

I agree that Kurt Angle should not be in, with this little time in pro wrestling.

I hate to say it but Bishoff deserves consideration.

(edited by jjfc on 24.8.04 2159)
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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1948 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
Kurt Angle is the first man to ever go from being the greatest amateaur in the world to the greatest professional in the world. I think he deserves to be in, longevitiy withstanding. I'm sure the gold medal helps him.



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Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
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Since: 15.10.02

Since last post: 299 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
The continuous exclusion of the Rock N Roll Express, a tag team that literally redefined tag team wrestling and used match styles that are still used today, pretty much kills this Hall Of Fame of having any credibility that Dave Meltzer hopes it has.



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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
So Hogan's not in, is he?



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.85
    Originally posted by BWT
    Stan Hansen
    Bret Hart
    Danny Hodge
    Hulk Hogan
    Antonio Inoki
    Rayo De Jalisco


It is ridiculous about the R&Rs not being in there.




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Since: 26.7.04
From: Sheboygan, WI

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.96
The RR Express are a historic team. Then you also have to put in the Midnight Express and the Freebirds.



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Since: 15.10.02

Since last post: 299 days
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by jjfc
    I'm really shocked at how low Sting is. He's still over and he's been inactive for five years plus.

    And I don't understand why MMA guys are ivolved. Don't they have their own Hall of Fame?

    I love Y2J but if he gets in on his first year of eligibility, this thing loses all credibility.


I don't know. If Angle's in, Y2J has probably just as big a case to get in too.

The scary thing is HHH has a bigger case than both of them. And all three of them, in my opinion, are not even HOF-worthy, at least at this stage.



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W Of The Day: Tuesday, March 4, 2003
W Of The Day (2): Wednesday, October 29, 2003

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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1948 days
Last activity: 1916 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
    Originally posted by MARTYEWR
    I don't know. If Angle's in, Y2J has probably just as big a case to get in too.

    The scary thing is HHH has a bigger case than both of them. And all three of them, in my opinion, are not even HOF-worthy, at least at this stage.


Chris Jericho was never the greatest wrestler in the world. Kurt Angle was.

I believe Triple H is Hall of Fame worthy. Being the top heel in the company during it's most profitable year, as well as being the top guy in the only major wrestling company in the country is nothing to sneeze at. Does politics have a lot to do with it? Sure. But how many other guys on the HOF got a lot of their credits due to politics?



The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.
MARTYEWR
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Since: 15.10.02

Since last post: 299 days
Last activity: 299 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
How is Kurt Angle the greatest wrestler in the world? What exactly did he do that was so great? He's never drawn a dime for the WWE, and his matches are incredibly overrated. On top of that, this is a guy who's had a total of 4 turns in the four and a half years he's been in professional wrestling and, on top of that, had a slight physical makeover in May 2002 (the hair match vs. Edge).

I don't care how much the 'net fans pimp him or how much Vince McMahon loves the guy himself, he's one of the most over-hyped, over-rated and maybe over-pushed wrestlers of all time. Neither Steve Austin, nor the Rock, nor Hulk Hogan have turned as much as he has in their whole careers, and those three are almost always considered the biggest stars ever in the history of wrestling. Those three have drawn big time money, Angle's drawn money against only Austin (SummerSlam 2001, during the early good stages of the InVasion storyline) and Guerrero (WrestleMania XX, a show that was hyped for a year). Angle's matches, as I stated, are incredibly overrated, as most of his offense consists of a variety of suplexes, none of which make a reasonable and sensical set-up for his finisher, the Ankle Lock. Watch the Royal Rumble 2003 match against Benoit again, you'll see that Angle doesn't do anything to affect Benoit's leg and ankle until the latter stages of the match, and yet the two or three submission attempts is enough to take Benoit out?

His run in the WWE, as much as I actually hate to admit it, because I don't like saying this about anyone's attempt at success, has been a failure. Part of it has to do with injuries, unfortunately, but Angle, after 4 years, is arguably still trying to establish his character. I blame Vince for this in some cases, because he seems to have a hard-on for making Angle that ultimate All-American Hero babyface when Angle can't play that part at all. But most of the time, he's either been a comedy character who no one can take seriously or a serious character who's dull as hell, like during his GM run on Smackdown. Angle's had many a failed attempt, and that's probably why you hear a lot about him playing politics, because he may be more insecure about his spot than HHH used to be.

As for HHH, I completely agree with you, OMEGA, about his run in 2000. However, one run does not a career make in my opinion, and if he continues to do what he's done so far in 2004 and beyond (he's still a good ratings and buyrate draw for Raw), I have no doubt that he'll be a legit Hall Of Famer, in my eyes. Jericho, on the other hand, needs a big career boost and a run at the top of one of the brands, with some successful draws, before even being considered a Hall Of Famer. The numbers during his Undisputed run were very good, but he played second or third fiddle to HHH's return, the nWo's debut, and whatever Austin and Rock were doing at the time.



Martin Kipp: Creative Member, Extreme Warfare Revenge

W Of The Day: Tuesday, March 4, 2003
W Of The Day (2): Wednesday, October 29, 2003

"Because I'm the man, and the man's the man, and that's just the way it is!" -- Eric Foreman, That 70s Show

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Tajiri fueded with Regal? I don't even remember that. Any fued with Regal is pretty much death for your heat anyway. Yup.... Checking the PPV stat sheet, they had a match at Survivor Series 2001. One tiger bomb later, and Tajiri went down.
- cfgb, Heat (2003)
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