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The W - Pro Wrestling - Wrestlemania X logic (becomes: Luger did not not get the title because of the NY Daily News)
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Since: 13.4.04
From: Des Moines, IA

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.18
Okay, so Bret Hart and Lex Luger 'tied' at the Rumble, so a coin toss was concocted to decide who would 'get the first crack at the champion, Yokozuna, at Wrestlemania X'.

My question is this:

Why the hell did Luger celebrate after 'winning' the toss?

If I remember right, the stipulation was that:

-If Bret 'won', he would fight Yoko then Luger.
Luger would fight Crush earlier in the night.

-If Lex 'won', he would wrestle Yoko then Bret.
Hart would fight Owen.

Anyway, wouldn't it be better to have one title match, rather than two? Am I missing something?

Forgive me if this is a dumb topic, but it sure beats the usual 'Smackdown sucks' stuff...




(edited by StevieRichards on 2.7.04 0021)
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Tribal Prophet
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Since: 9.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.93
Maybe he was hoping for the extra payday for being in two title matches instead of just one?

ps. I hope you just started being bothered by this now. I'd hate to think that you've spent the better part of 10 years losing sleep over Luger acting dumb.


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Since: 13.4.04
From: Des Moines, IA

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.18
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    Maybe he was hoping for the extra payday for being in two title matches instead of just one?

    ps. I hope you just started being bothered by this now. I'd hate to think that you've spent the better part of 10 years losing sleep over Luger acting dumb.


    Tribal Prophet


Actually, when I close my eyes all I see is Vince flipping a stupid WWF quarter in the air...but its all in slow-motion.

Then Luger flaps his arms and crabwalks for seven hours straight.

Thank god for Meth.



(edited by StevieRichards on 2.7.04 0034)
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
    Originally posted by StevieRichards
    Actually, when I close my eyes all I see is Vince flipping a stupid WWF quarter in the air...but its all in slow-motion.
That's too bad - it's Jack Tunney and an Ike "silver dollar."

http://slashwrestling.com/ monday/RAW.940131.final

;-)



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Since: 12.5.04

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
The point was that Luger had been trying to get a rematch with Yoko since SummerSlam, and the Rumble was his only opportunity. He was celebrating because he not only got first crack at the title, but revenge againt Yokozuna at the same time. Of course, the greatness of Curt Hennig~! foiled that plan.



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Since: 24.2.04

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.02
If you think that is strange, wait until you hear this. This is how the WWF was suppose to look for the year 1994. This was the original plan:

1)The Undertaker was suppose to win the title from Yokozuna at the 1994 Royal Rumble.

2)Undertaker was then suppose to lost he title a month before Wrestlemania 10 to Ludvig Borga.

3)Borga was then to headline WM10 with Lex Luger and Luger was suppose to win the belt.

HOWEVER, because of injuries this is what happened:

1) The Undertaker needed immediate back surgery and was taken out at the Royal Rumble.

2) Ludvig Borga shattered his ankle in either a battle royal or a match vs Rick Steiner.

3) Lex Luger was suppose to win the belt but blabbed to friends that he was going to win and the NY Times ran a piece in thier Saturday paper saying Luger was going to win. Wanting to trick the media, Vince had Bret Hart win the title and kept promising Luger he would get the belt down the line, something that never happened.

I don't know if the part about Luger blabbing is true.

Here's the link where I got the info:

http://www.softwolves.pp.se/ wrestling/wwf/substitutions.html


(edited by Swatkid84 on 2.7.04 1305)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.61
I'm sorry but none of that is actually true.
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Since: 2.12.03
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
Actually I believe it is...it's very well known about Borga winning the title and Luger blabbing the night before...

(edited by Y2J 420 on 2.7.04 1713)


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Since: 10.8.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
The story I've always heard about 1994 was that there was dispute over who would be champ at WM; Vince wanted Luger, Pat Patterson was pushing for Bret. The finish of the 94 Rumble, with both guys be introduced as winners separately, was done so that they could measure crowd reaction to each. Bret got the better response, and the title came with it.

I've heard the Borga theory several times, but I've probably heard it referred to as a bogus story just as often. Honestly, I know WWF was kinda screwed up back then but really...Lex Luger vs. Ludvig Borga as the main event of WrestleMania?

Was anyone reading WON back then that can answer that for sure?



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Since: 18.6.04
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.15
I liked Ludvig back then, but I think the Bullshit chant would of been much louder had that been the main event to WM 10.

Knowing Vince I think it's totally true. Thank god the right decisions were made.



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Since: 12.10.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    The story I've always heard about 1994 was that there was dispute over who would be champ at WM; Vince wanted Luger, Pat Patterson was pushing for Bret. The finish of the 94 Rumble, with both guys be introduced as winners separately, was done so that they could measure crowd reaction to each. Bret got the better response, and the title came with it.

    I've heard the Borga theory several times, but I've probably heard it referred to as a bogus story just as often. Honestly, I know WWF was kinda screwed up back then but really...Lex Luger vs. Ludvig Borga as the main event of WrestleMania?

    Was anyone reading WON back then that can answer that for sure?


The Ludvig Borga theory is hogwash. It may have been Vince's 'master plan' when he first started the Borga megapush lost steam in the Fall of '93.

My memory is a little sketchy but I believe they did the disputed finish as a gimmick with the intentions of Luger winning all along but then the fans were more into Bret then Luger so plans changed.

To further disprove the Borga theory, before they had the coin toss to decide who would wrestle Yokozuna first, there were two options given on TV.

A) Luger vs Yoko, Bret vs Owen, Bret vs Champion
or
B) Bret vs Yoko, Luger vs CRUSH, Luger vs Champion

Now when they decided to go with Bret instead of Luger, I can't remember but I think the Luger getting drunk story is a myth. Think about how it unfolded ... Why would they two match thing if they weren't going to put it on Bret? So Bret could beat Owen and lose to Luger? That wouldn't set anything up for the future but Owen beating Bret and Bret beating Yoko setup the Summer of Bret/Owen for the title. I tend to believe they knew when they did the coin toss, that Bret was going to be Champion. Now back then they didn't tell the talent much in advance so maybe Luger assumed he was going to be winning the title and shot his mouth off about it?

It wouldn't have made sense to put the title on Luger at Mania because he had cooled off so much and they hadn't built up any challengers for him while they had Owen ready for Bret.



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Since: 21.4.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.27
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    I've heard the Borga theory several times, but I've probably heard it referred to as a bogus story just as often. Honestly, I know WWF was kinda screwed up back then but really...Lex Luger vs. Ludvig Borga as the main event of WrestleMania?

    Was anyone reading WON back then that can answer that for sure?


Well they had a quasi-mainevent at Survivor Series '93 if I recall...

The All-Americans (Luger, Taker, Steiner Bros.) vs. The Foreign Fanatics (Yokozuna, Crush, Borga, Quebecer Jacques)

Match ended with Luger defeating Borga to become sole-survivor. Yay.





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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.61
BVM: "Was anyone reading WON back then that can answer that for sure?"

I wasn't reading back then but I have the back issues. You and fuelinjected are right. Going into the Rumble the idea was still ultimately for Luger to end up finally winning the title from Yokozuna. But when they announced first one and then the other as the Rumble winner, the reaction to Bret dwarfed Luger's so they realized he was the guy they really wanted as champion.

All I'll say about Luger and the NY Times is that the story never appeared in the Observer in '94, nor did it appear in the WWF history piece from 1994 that Dave wrote last year. You'd think something that big would find its way in there, but nope, never mentioned. At all.

They did an angle at a taping right before WM where Luger beat up Yoko, "stole" the title, and posed with it, but that was just a red herring for the finish of Mania, if anything.

Ludvig Borga got a big push and they had big plans for him as a heel that didn't pan out, but he was never "officially planned" to be WWF Champion and headline Wrestlemania against Luger.

(edited by JMShapiro on 2.7.04 2319)
Screeching Weasel
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Since: 13.6.04

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.53
I had never heard the Borga as champ story, that's very interesting. I also read somewhere that Greg Valentine was scheduled to supposedly win the title way back in the day. Also Bad News Brown comes to mind. I know there's at least a half dozen guys who were penciled in to win but for whatever reason never happened.
NickBockwinkelFan
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Since: 10.4.02
From: New York City, NY

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.59
    Originally posted by Swatkid84
    3) Lex Luger was suppose to win the belt but blabbed to friends that he was going to win and the NY Times ran a piece in thier Saturday paper saying Luger was going to win. Wanting to trick the media, Vince had Bret Hart win the title and kept promising Luger he would get the belt down the line, something that never happened.




I find it difficult to believe that a newspaper that won't even "lower itself" to print the point spreads on the NFL, would be publishing Lex Luger match spoilers.



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Since: 4.1.02
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by Screeching Weasel
    I had never heard the Borga as champ story, that's very interesting. I also read somewhere that Greg Valentine was scheduled to supposedly win the title way back in the day. Also Bad News Brown comes to mind. I know there's at least a half dozen guys who were penciled in to win but for whatever reason never happened.


I think in the cases of those two, they were only supposed to get world title programs with Hogan or Savage. I seriously can't see the late 80's WWF putting the belt on Greg the Hammer, since he was a total midcarder after a hot IC title run in the middle of the decade. Bad News is one of those guys that had a lot of talent, and should've been pushed higher than his silly midcard feuds with Jake Roberts over his pet rats. His battle royal win at WM4 was supposed to start a larger push for him, but I believe Bad News had a bad attitude, which is why he never got his run with Savage.

The guy who actually was pencilled in to win the belt was Ted Dibiase. He was supposed to win the WM4 title tournament, while Savage would've not even been in the tourney and instead won the IC title from the Honky Tonk Man. Honky, however, pitched a fit and threatened to walk to the NWA (with the IC belt) unless he won the match, so the WWF hurriedly slotted in Beefcake for the IC title match and decided to push Savage into the main event slot.

This is one of the great what-ifs of wrestling history: how would Ted Dibiase done as champion? I would guess that the plan would've been to have Dibiase as a Billy Graham-esque heel champ for a year fighting off challengers before building to the big showdown with Hogan at WM5. Dibiase was a good enough wrestler and was SO over at this point that the WWF could've given him the title and had it be a success. Since the WWF used to unofficially split their roster back then for house shows (like they do now with the two shows), they could've had Hogan, Dibiase and Savage as legit headliners for the A, B and C shows, whereas in real-life they had Hogan and Savage as headliners, whereas the C show was usually a tag title match or some such lower-ranked match.

And just think: Savage probably could've stayed hot with the IC belt for a long while, and could've feuded with Rick Rude over the title (with Rude getting a title reign in there somewhere). Then history could've changed again, and Savage/Hogan would've headlined WM6, which the Macho Man finally getting his world title run. I'm not sure what the Warrior would've been doing in this fantasy scenario other than squashing midcarders, but hey, anything that keeps the Warrior out of the picture is fine with me.



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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
    Originally posted by NickBockwinkelFan
      Originally posted by Swatkid84
      3) Lex Luger was suppose to win the belt but blabbed to friends that he was going to win and the NY Times ran a piece in thier Saturday paper saying Luger was going to win. Wanting to trick the media, Vince had Bret Hart win the title and kept promising Luger he would get the belt down the line, something that never happened.




    I find it difficult to believe that a newspaper that won't even "lower itself" to print the point spreads on the NFL, would be publishing Lex Luger match spoilers.




It wasn't the New York Times. It was the New York Daily News in the Gossip section. Considering the Daily News ran Blackjack Brown's MSG results in the sports section, it is possible they would run with a wrestling story in the gossip section. And its definately possible Luger was dumb enough to blab about the finish when he was drunk.
Daily News online archive only goes back to 1997, so I can't pull up the source to prove/disprove this, and I'm not in the mood to go find a library with the New York Daily News on microfilm.

(edited by redsoxnation on 3.7.04 1246)


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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.74
Actually, I think their Friday Sports Section Column, "The Slammer," goes back about 15 years. It was probably that one, because I remember reading it as a kid to find out who would be coming to WWF from NWA and who "might" win the titles or be turning bad.
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
Here's my problem with the "let's see who gets cheered more" reaction. Bret had had a match earlier in the night, a match that featured a somewhat shocking heel turn by Owen. Bret was not only attacked by his own brother, but he suffered an injury and still came back courageously.

So my point is this: Who did the WWF expect to get the vote out of Luger, who was fresh, and Bret who was injured? Even hardened Luger fans might have been enamored by Bret's "toughness" and cheered for him. I just hope that Vince had already decided on Bret's drawing ability vs. Luger's drawing ability because he really hung Lex out to dry with the booking of the pay per view.



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Since: 10.1.03
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.10
"So my point is this: Who did the WWF expect to get the vote out of Luger, who was fresh, and Bret who was injured? Even hardened Luger fans might have been enamored by Bret's "toughness" and cheered for him. I just hope that Vince had already decided on Bret's drawing ability vs. Luger's drawing ability because he really hung Lex out to dry with the booking of the pay per view."

Playing devil's advocate, the whole Luger story had the longer and more direct build. Can't forget that Fuji and Cornette hired those two Japanese dudes to ambush Luger backstage, though yes, in a much weaker segment then when Owen kicked Bret's "leg out from under his leg" so he too was supposedly injured.

From my then markish perspective of the ending, I still felt the Bret cowinning was a huge monkey wrench into Luger's plans. So where I wanted Bret to take care of Owen, I didn't see much sense in him fueding with Yoko.

(edited by Nag on 3.7.04 1823)


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