Let the record show that this seven hour show was moving along just fine until Triple H came along and killed every bit of momentum with another Triple H plodding, never ending WrestleMania match. Give an assist to Randy Orton who seemed to give almost zero fucks and worked the title match like he was working a high school gym for your local independent company. Brock vs Goldberg brought things back to life with a quick super heavy weight fight, but Undertaker had nothing left in the tank and worked just an awful match against Roman who did all he could to save it but it's tough when your opponent has a hard time standing. I have no problem with the send off, but Roman would have gotten a better match vs The Invisible Man.
The show was actually good though. Nothing really worth rewatching, but we did get The Hardys and everything before that was nicely paced. Cena proposed, and gave Nikki a giant ring. It's about what I expected actually, but I can see why people might not agree. They have to find a way to tighten this show up though, the obvious answer is quit letting Triple H wrestle, but you know.
Unless they continue to parade a bunch of old-timers out there year after year, we can probably expect 5 hour shows until someone figures their shit out.
That said, I felt like this was 2 different shows. The first half-ish was great! I loved AJ/Shane, KO/Jericho, the Raw Women's Championship match was good, the Raw Tag Team match was fun but of course everyone will remember it for the return of the Hardys. Then from there, things were ok.
The mixed tag was pretty much what I expected. I did like HHH/Rollins. And give Steph some credit for the table bump. Good on her! RKO/Bray was really weird with all the projections and Orton just seemed...off. Brock/Goldberg went longer than I thought and was meh...again, kind of what I expected. The SD Women's match was ok too. Nice to see Naomi get the win after not actually losing it.
Then....well, Taker/Roman. This was all sorts of hard to watch. Give Roman credit. He did everything he could to carry Taker but it was a losing situation for Roman. I think for the first time in forever (probably before CM Punk left) , I will catch Raw to see what will happen. Here is to hoping Finn re-emerges and we get an idea of what kind of character we get out of the Hardys.
Chuck Norris drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.
To say Orton phoned in that match was an insult to phones. I actually thought his attitude was a hint that he was jobbing, but nope, it was just Orton resting on the laurels of a terrible booking decision. I worry that WWE has entirely missed the boat on Bray Wyatt.
Show was overall much better than I thought it would be, though that isn't saying much.
George Michael weighed his options. Maeby had chastised him for not taking risks, and what would be a bigger risk than perpetuating a lie about software just to ignite the passions of a woman? Of course it would be a lie, and since Maeby wouldn't know it was a lie, he wouldn't appear to be taking a risk. Perhaps the bigger risk was to tell his father he was lying, that he came up with it because he wanted his father to leave so he could enjoy what remained of his senior year. After all, he wondered, wouldn't that be the course of action taken by an overtly sexual man, a man who owns a pair of matador pants? He had not responded now for 41 seconds according to his unfailing internal clock, and it was time to come clean.
So is Mojo getting a push or is Vince just using him in hope of getting Tom Brady and Gronk to host RAW?
I saw online that there were a lot of people who were in attendance bitching about the bright stadium lights when they were turned on. Evidently the glare from the lights was so bright that they couldn't see the action in the ring. People either put on sunglasses or had to watch the show on the giant screens.
I really enjoyed the show: there was a really nice variety of matches, the crowd were great and the set looked fantastic. Seven hours (inc. the kickoff show) is somewhat excessive though; over here in the UK I got to bed at 5.15am!
Originally posted by griffI really enjoyed the show: there was a really nice variety of matches, the crowd were great and the set looked fantastic. Seven hours (inc. the kickoff show) is somewhat excessive though; over here in the UK I got to bed at 5.15am!
Yeah, I find myself in agreement with this. The last two hours of a seven hour show dragged a bit? You don't say. Really, I thought that Orton/Wyatt was the only real bad match of the show. I overall liked HHH/Rollins, especially the finish. That jockeying for position spot into Steph's table bump into the Rollins Pedigree (side note: he should rename it the "Kingslayer," because Pedigree hasn't made sense as a name for many, many years) was just fantastic. That said, the match probably could have been about 10 minutes shorter, and they could have given that time to one or both of the women's matches.
And you know what? Forget Ric Flair, the Undertaker is the greatest professional wrestler of all time, and for all that the match wasn't great, the sendoff at the end of the show was. The nod to his famous entrance as he folded up his coat and took off his hat to leave them in the ring, and then slowly sinking into the depths; I think that's what we're really going to remember about this years from now.
I hate that Shane was booked to be on equal level with AJ Styles. I mean he kicked out of the Styles Clash for god's sake. But he put in such a good effort it's hard to dislike the match.
I'm not really into the Hardys but the Raw tag match was still a lot of fun because it was actually good. Probably the most pleasantly surprised I was about any match. It does kind of suck that the other tag teams are taking a backseat to the Hardys though.
Raw's women match started really good, great storytelling with the other 3 women teaming up on Nia. It continued to be good until Sasha was eliminated. At that point both the quality and interest seemed to die down. Bayley just isn't on Charlotte and Sasha's level and I think everybody sees it.
I also fell asleep during Triple H's match, Goldberg-Lesnar was about as good as they could do probably. I guess it's good Smackdown women got in the main card but they were obviously put in the bathroom break spot.
Oh yeah, and I completely wasted my time tuning into early for the Battle Royale. I mean I actually like Mojo fine and I like Gronk, but eliminating Braun early in the match took the sails out of it and Sami, the one person who they made a big deal about getting an opportunity to be in it, barely did anything.
Is Wrestlemania still going on? Do you remember a time before it?
Man - I've been over Taker matches for a few years, but that goodbye was pretty powerful. Once he took off that hat, you could see it in his face, it was a goodbye to Being the Undertaker and almost a weight lifted, like he could just be Mark again, for good.
Who expected we'd see multiple stuffed Moogles on Wrestlemania but no Samoa Joe?
Originally posted by KevintripodSo is Mojo getting a push or is Vince just using him in hope of getting Tom Brady and Gronk to host RAW?
Getting on ESPN, Deadspin, etc. today was the only reason, I'm sure.
I feel like this was a show that will age very, very poorly. It delivered some moments, like the return of the Hardys, the John/Nikki proposal, and Taker's sendoff, but moments rarely hold their impact out of context. The greatest Wrestlemanias are built on the back of great matches, and this WM didn't have a truly great match. I think the low expectations going in bumped up the perception of a few matches, especially AJ/Shane and Brock/Goldberg, but you could say there were at least four or five matches, and virtually all of the "main events" that came in at ** or less, and that will not make for good viewing five years down the road.
I love Taker, and he was the reason I started watching wrestling, but man he hasn't been able to go since WM29, and this was just a sad, sad end to a glorious career. Of course Taker's earned the right to go out the way he wanted to, but surely someone should've talked him out of trying to go 20+ minutes. And so Taker ends his WM legacy with two of the absolute worst WM main events (Sid at WM 13 and last night) and two of the absolute best WM main events (Edge at WM 24 and Shawn at WM 26) in history.
(edited by used2bcool on 3.4.17 0753) In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws
And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours!
I actually thought the best part of Mania was KO/Jericho, the Raw's Women and the Raw Tag Team. See a pattern here. Raw was the big winner last night. Which makes sense, because how off the mark they have been for months. They needed a restart. Bayley winning with the Savage Elbow on Charlotte was a great nod to WM 8. I really liked the New Day teasing they were in the tag match only for the Hardy Boyz to hit and they marked out like the rest of us. That hour saved a rather bland borderline stupid Mania until the end.
Taker being gone feels like the magic is gone. I hope they give him a giant send off tonight, but I got a feeling they may save it for Smackdown if we get one at all. I hope they honor Mark's wishes and do whatever he wants to do. I just wish Taker would have lost to someone that is the walking embodiment of damaged goods inside a car crash.
The McMahon family had almost hour and half of air time for reasons that are not even close to good. No Joe, No Finn and nothing really that forward moving for most of the talent minus Mojo. Raw has a part time champ, Smackdown has a champ that is as charismatic as a wall, Brau and Sami were wasted in the Battle Royal and we still have to address Steph being in charge of Raw. We maybe seeing the most important Raw in a long time tonight or a Raw we get really excited about and nothing really changes.
Originally posted by Spiraling_ShapeMan - I've been over Taker matches for a few years, but that goodbye was pretty powerful. Once he took off that hat, you could see it in his face, it was a goodbye to Being the Undertaker and almost a weight lifted, like he could just be Mark again, for good.
This sums up my feelings very well. I've cringe-watched Taker matches from when he almost killed himself diving over the top against HBK. I know he was still capable at that point, but that was when I felt he was done as an elite-level guy. I give Reigns a ton of credit for going into that spot, fully aware of how much shit he would get, and still doing everything he could to make Taker look as good as possible. AJ is the only guy they have who could've pulled it off but, yeah, no chance of that happening. That post-match stuff was emotional AF, although the on-again-off-again gear was dumb but necessary for the story they wanted to tell. Camera cut back to the ring and I said out loud to my wife, "he's got his coat and hat on and now it's gonna rain."
Wife was cheering loudly for Taker to start pissing on turnbuckles to mark his territory every time he threw Roman out of the ring.
Man, in hindsight, Bayley was SUPER protected in NXT. It's not that she's not ready or whatever but she's clearly not on the same level as the other horsewomen.
I liked a lot of this show. Sure, it dragged a lot. But as has been said, it's a 7 hour extravaganza.
It's true that there's no memorable matches at this Mania, and that the only really memorable thing wasn't even an entrance, but an out-trance.
The Taker sendoff was great. Seeing the smallest crack in his persona as he took off the hat was amazing. And I actually liked the story the match told. No, Taker couldn't go anymore, but he didn't really pretend he could. He got just short of squashed. The story was that he gave absolutely everything for decades and now he was giving his last few fumes and going out on a totally empty tank, and he told that story like a pro. The failed sit-up was amazing. If anything, the big problem is that it doesn't really make Reigns look that strong (did Reigns get a new entrance theme BTW?)
Everything else, I agree, was meh. When a 47-year-old tech executive puts on your best match, you kind of have a problem.
I was looking forward to the Raw Women's match, but man, Charlotte is just on an absolute other level, and it shows. That twisting moonsault was the move of the night. Sasha and Bayley (and Nia) are really good, but if Charlotte had a clone they'd be Main Eventing next Wrestlemania.
Mojo will go back to his exact same spot. I think that was a combo of trying to work Gronk in and get a little Mainstream press, and their tendency to give an hardworking, underappreciated veteran whose career has obviously plateaued pretty low a Wrestlmania Moment (TM), a la Zach Ryder & the IC title.
Originally posted by StefonicsMan, in hindsight, Bayley was SUPER protected in NXT. It's not that she's not ready or whatever but she's clearly not on the same level as the other horsewomen.
I can't agree with this. Although I'll grant that between the ropes, Bayley's probably the weakest of the four. Bayley's real strength is something that a lot of main roster matches don't allow for, at least outside of the main event. Bayley is a consummate storyteller. Just look at last night and how well she sold her knee throughout the match, even into the post match celebration. She's naturally sympathetic, and knows how to work a crowd to get them behind her. It's just hard to do that when your 4-way elimination match only gets 12 minutes.
Honestly, Bayley is fine being Bayley as is Charlotte fine being Charlotte and Sasha being Sasha. Becky to me as her hands full in that division and is getting stuck in the mud with it. I like Naomi and Alexa, but they are not the Four Horsewomen. Becky in a werid way needs to find a thing besides plucky Lass Kicker or she is going to get lost in a shuffle after the Women's Tournament I fear.
I hope they make Kurt the new GM/CEO or whatever of Raw with someone like No Way Jose being his assistant. Give a NXT guy a rub easing him into Monday Night.
Obvious compliaint: the eight hours or however long this show was seems unnecessary. I started the preshow delayed at 8:30 and FFed to the cruiserweight and battle royal matches, then stopped and moved on to the main show. Just so long.
This probably should have happened with Taker a few years ago, maybe after the streak ending. He's worn down, but man is he a legend and man was that a hard end to watch where you could see the sadness in his eyes and see him of all people break the wall and kiss his wife. I kinda hope we don't get a 30 minute goodbye ceremony on Raw, because that doesn't seem like something Taker would even want. Mention Roman beating him and taking his yard, never mention retirement, and we'll see him at I assume the next HOF.
My favorite parts of the night were the returns - Hardys, JR, and Mickie (yeah she's been back, but she's back at WM). The Hardys moment was perfect and man did they earn everything that happened there. I'm glad JR got to come back and call Taker's last match, and I'm glad Mickie got to have one more Mania match, even if it wasn't one of the better matches especially as it followed big matches.
The Raw womens match was good and I'm glad Bayley got the end moment. The entrances were fun.
Goldberg-Lesnar was better than I had expected (which was nothing). I don't know what to say about Wyatt-Orton, but ten points for trying something new, as weird as it was.
I skipped the entire HHH-Rollins match. I'll go back later, but it seemed like the match worth skipping the most when I was falling asleep and still had about 20 hours of show left.
No more Shane please. I just can't believe Shane is even matched against AJ. JBL continually talking about how he had such an amazing lineback's body underneath his jersey was about the worst.
New Day were fun, but Michael Cole was not the one to talk about Final Fantasy and make us believe he knows what it is.
Meh on the mixed tag and the proposal we will never, ever stop hearing about. I do love that Miz has become the new fan favorite, which is something I never, ever expected.
One more tiny complaint from the Rollins/HHH match. HHH is on the top rope setting up Rollins for the top rope pedigree. Except his legs are on the outside of the middle rope, meaning he'd have to somehow jump from the middle rope, over the top rope, and down to the mat with Rollins' head in between his legs to deliver the move. So obviously it's a set up (HHH ended up getting back body dropped for those of you who wisely Fast Forwarded this match).
Nous ne nous pouvons pas sortir. -Roman using repeated chair shots on a shot Undertaker is exactly how a top face should act.
-AJ selling for Shane's punches makes me sad.
-I was praying for another 30 second Goldberg/BROCK~! match with Lesnar reversing a spear into an arm breaking kimura.
-Dean Ambrose won a match?
-Cesaro got swantonned through a ladder, Sheamus basically caught a forward flip heel kick to the jaw. OUCH.
-Neville needs to cut a promo where he points out he singlehandedly saved 205 Live/the cruiserweight division and his thank you for that and putting on the match of the night was a spot on the frigging preshow, in a match that had a commercial break.
I had just under 3 hours to watch this show this morning before going to work - if I wasn't a 'family man' then I would have stayed up to watch it like I did all those years ago. Glad I didn't. Used the fast forward button to get through some of it and read what I missed.
Haven't watched the preshow yet, and probably won't. I want to watch Neville v Aries, but equally have a lot of other things I want to watch and do. Rematch on Tuesday? Didn't have a lot of interest in the Battle Royal, and even less now Rawley won. Have no interest in him and don't see that changing. Also haven't seen Ambrose and Corbin and have no interest in that knowing the result. A year ago I liked Dean, but not anymore.
Aj and Shane would have been a pretty good match if Shane was a wrestler. Downside is he isn't.
The Hardys were one of the best moments of the night and I am very interested to see what happens with them tonight when they have a microphone. Good match and Sheamus must have been pleased to have missed that splash from Jeff. Cesaro not so much!
First womens match was a disappointment as it was way too quick. Charlotte is very very good. I have never liked Bayleys finisher and tonight didn't change that. Wasn't a lot of point in adding Nia apart from letting her be on the card, but they managed to leave Joe off without a problem.
Other womens match I skipped as I was running out of time. Obviously skipped the musical bit as well. Should have fast forwarded through the start of Hunter and Seth as well and got to the last 10 minutes or so. Glad Seth won but was too long. Steph going through the table was good, as long as she isn't on Raw tonight or even for the next few weeks. Or forever!
Goldberg and Lesnar was alright and worked, but doesn't make up for the last few months. Wish I had skipped the Wyatt match and don't want to see that again. Or Orton as champ come to that.
The end of the Taker match obviously worked, but the match itself didn't. They tried very hard but it was too long for me and Roman just repeated the Romanman punch. I assume they turned the volume down very low for this match? Messing up the tombstone match didn't help, and doing it twice and still messing it up made it worse. Calling the next spot possibly made it worse but needed to be done.
Raw in a few hours should be very interesting (or in about 0 hours when I watch it!) but hopefully they don't just play to the crowd and then return to 'normal WWE' next week when everyone has gone home. It should be good as long as it means something long term. There are a lot of possibilities that would make things interesting and exciting. Or they might stick with what they have and end up annoying a lot of the dwindling fan base they have left.
Will Smackdown be better than Raw? Could well happen.
DEAN, welcome to the sig. Not necessarily how it probably shoulda been, but I CAN'T pass that up. And Rikishi didn't stack stinkface the Guerreros, right? We need more absurdist moments in wrestling like that.