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The W - Pro Wrestling - WrestleMania 22 Q'n'D results - and discussion (Page 4)
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darkmatcher
Bockwurst








Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 2646 days
Last activity: 1722 days
#61 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Oh get off your high horse you big baby. You spend half the time talking about how the fed aren't booking properly, then the other half about how cool the heels are and how you'd pop for the win despite them being booked solely as heels and most people seeing them that way. And THEN you'd insist they STAY heels, despite you popping for them, because if they turned face they'd be "lame". It's the same kind of thinking that's let to Cena's bizarre up-and-down, side-to-side reactions and booking for the past twelve months. It's the same kind of of dumbass faux-smark fanboy crap that saw people labelling Jericho as stale not two months after he turned face in 2004 because suddenly everyone was cheering for him. I have no problem with cheering a heel whom you want to see turn face, but we know that's not the case here.

    So yeah, you and your friends are dumb. You want to cheer them solely for being heels, which is totally counterproductive and neuters the characters and storyline the company and the wrestlers work hard to create. And all for no other reason than its KEWL to hate on faces.

    Oh, and "hypocritically judging from the IWC"? Gime a fuckin' break. If anything I'd advocate less smart-ass I-net shit, as all it does is lead to moronic things like an entire crowd cheering for HHH to win the belt just because it's in vogue to dislike the WWE's current favoured main-eventer.

    (edited by oldschoolhero on 3.4.06 0545)


Gotta say I'm in agreement with you, oldschool. Seems like every Wrestlemania since X8(and many in between PPVs) has been tainted by these smarky, anti-mainstream reactions and quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of it. Why boo a actual talented babyface (Rey) other than because supporting the heel makes you look 'cool'? None of this will work in creating another Austin, and none of it actually looks cool to most people watching.
Captaincuba
Italian








Since: 25.10.05

Since last post: 203 days
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#62 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
Cena is getting booed because his original gimmick has been neutered. He panders to the kids now. Remember his promos against the Undertaker a few years back? They have since been replaced by "The Chain Gang".

I'd also like to point out that Cena isn't trying to be "gangsta" he likes HIP HOP. Hip hop and "rap" are 2 different things although MTV would have you think otherwise. Believe it or not his album has some true hip hop talents collaborating with him. These guys didn't do this to sell out, they did it because they know John Cena is a true hip hop fan, not some commercial wanna-be.

The distinction between a punk wannabe and a street tough word-smith is directly related to boos vs. cheers.

So yes I blame creative...but for different reasons than stated before.

If I were booking I'd take Cena FULL heel, turn his back on his remaining fans, trash the guys that boo him for wanting to be him, call the girls that cheered him his bitches, etc.

Then I'd have Jericho come out, apologize to the fans for siding with Bischoff and run off your newly minted top heel.
Jericho would be the top face on either brand hands down.

My 2 cents,

CC
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#63 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.25
Well said, Sklok. This sentiment I agree with. Not this phony "awwwwww they're killing the biz by putting Cena over!" BS.

And Cerebus, Cena's not a guy who was pushed down anyone's throat. He took a one-night Vanilla Ice ripoff gimmick and became hugely over as a heel, and then hugely over as a face. He was a MASSIVE breakout star on SmackDown. Acting as if his push is solely based on Vince having a hard-on for him is absurd. The fans put him where he is. The fed responded to them and pushed him accordingly. And now, after they boosted him up to the top, the fans are tearing him down because oh wait, we don't like him as much as we think we did. It's bullshit.

I'm sure I could trawl back through the archives here at The W, finding cries for a Cena title reign and megapush prior to WrestleMania last year. I'm sure I could dig up the evidence to support that the Cena-hatred has less to do with anything the guy's said and more to do with a smark herd mentality towards the guy. Both smarts and marks were clamouring for the guy to be made top dog, by and large, so don't act like the fed has spent the last two years pushing a guy that everyone hated from day one.

And besides, this gripe of mine isn't solely confined to the Cena treatment! What about Trish? What about Rey? What about Kane and Show in the opener? It's become a prevailing trend in recent years. Rocky getting shit on, Eugene's push being derailed for no reason other than one crowd deciding that they hated him, Orton being cheered into a totally lame face turn, et cetera et cetera et cetera. I think what annoys me most about it is that it seems as though the majority of people react on a whim. They cher or boo, with no thought as to why, and expect the company to keep up with their flip-flopping attention spans and make high drama with them.

Okay, say Hunter won the strap last night. What would have happened then? Who would he have wrestled? How would him winning the title benefitted the company? Please, enlighten me. Do they stick with the guy who's getting insane reactions from every crowd, or slap the belt back on a guy who wouldn't clearly be face or heel, and whose last few title reigns have been met with maddened boredom by the majority?

(edited by oldschoolhero on 3.4.06 1323)


To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

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#64 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    They're not turning him for their shareholders. He's the #1 merchandise seller by a huge margin.


The most interesting thing about Cena is that he's really shown the power of merchandise sales and changed some conventional wisdom. I used to think that live crowd responses dicated everything, but it seems clear that as long as the guy is moving merchandise and the pay-per-view buys are steady, they'll stay with him. I think what stunned everyone last night was that they stayed with him over the most powerful wrestler in the company, at least for one night.

The hormonal teens who boo him in the arenas and online and the alleged HHH marks don't have as much power to sway booking decisions as I gave them credit for. Cena's kid fans probably buy more wrestling t-shirts (through pestering their parents) than 16-21 year old Korn listeners and ANY rock band will tell you that women are extremely loyal fans. Cena's got both those bases locked up.



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"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
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raygun
Chorizo








Since: 24.7.02
From: winnipeg

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#65 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.79
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Honestly, I think it's disrespectful for fans to turn up to a show and say "hey, you know what? I'm gonna boo the fuck outta that guy tonight for no real reason!". Sure, you paid your ticket money, but it's childish behaviour that smacks of egocentric elitism. Of course the crowd CAN react like that. but that's not an automatic decree that they should. It can also ruin the show for the much larger audience watching at home, who paid money for the experience just like the live crowd did.


First off, Cena's been getting boos for months now. This is not some strange new phenomenon. In my opinion, the guy's gimmick was cut off at the knees when he joined Raw and he's never recovered. And it's not like they weren't prepared - They had Lawler and Ross pontificate about the mixed reaction before it even happened.

Secondly, does the crowd booing certain wrestlers really ruin the show for you? Or are you just annoyed that others don't share your opinions?
MonteCarl
Potato korv








Since: 21.1.02
From: Saginaw, MI

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#66 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.26
I'd like to add that one of my favorite moments of WM last night was after Cena got the tap out victory, they had several crowd shots....and the looks on those people who were booing Cena's faces were great. I saw several people literally with their mouths open in shock, saw some mouth "What??", and one guy as the camera panned past him looked right into the camera and said "What the fuck?".

I'd bet most of those people in shock were the "smarks" who just KNEW that HHH was going to win because "he's banging the boss's daughter". They were probably talking their smark talk to the people around them spreading their knowledge. And the Cena wins. It was surprising. Their net sheets didn't predict this. What's going on? That's just awesome. To be able to take that smark audience and surprise and shock them with the ending to a wrestling match that they just "knew" the outcome to. Brilliant.



--Monte N
http://www.thebananaconvention.com
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#67 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88

    I'm sure I could trawl back through the archives here at The W, finding cries for a Cena title reign and megapush prior to WrestleMania last year. I'm sure I could dig up the evidence to support that the Cena-hatred has less to do with anything the guy's said and more to do with a smark herd mentality towards the guy.


I can only speak for myself, but I remember exactly what I said this time last year without even looking: that they had groomed him for this for the year leading up to WM21 and that it needed to be Cena's graduation day and that those who were grooming him for it just had to hope they raised him right and send him out into the world, and it has actually worked out for them to do so.

I'm not saying he doesn't have his shortcomings, but he's handled his role and even handled his treatment by the fans with a lot of class and maturity that guys put in his position don't usually have. And as stated he does push a shitload of merch and is making the company money. You'll know when the gravy train loses a wheel because THAT'S when he loses his title/spot.

Rey is getting the same graduation this year, and he has the base to succeed in that he is already a draw and does already move merch. Whether he succeeds or not is another story, but speculating about it is about to end.



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BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

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#68 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.05
    Originally posted by raygun
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      Honestly, I think it's disrespectful for fans to turn up to a show and say "hey, you know what? I'm gonna boo the fuck outta that guy tonight for no real reason!". Sure, you paid your ticket money, but it's childish behaviour that smacks of egocentric elitism. Of course the crowd CAN react like that. but that's not an automatic decree that they should. It can also ruin the show for the much larger audience watching at home, who paid money for the experience just like the live crowd did.


    First off, Cena's been getting boos for months now. This is not some strange new phenomenon. In my opinion, the guy's gimmick was cut off at the knees when he joined Raw and he's never recovered. And it's not like they weren't prepared - They had Lawler and Ross pontificate about the mixed reaction before it even happened.

    Secondly, does the crowd booing certain wrestlers really ruin the show for you? Or are you just annoyed that others don't share your opinions?


What I think OSH is saying that amonst the live crowds, it has become "trendy" to some degree to boo certain faces. Granted, a good deal of the boos directed at Cena is because his character has become stale to many. I guess the point is, when Cena is turned heel again (which I feel is 99% certain) then within a few months, all the people who booed him will go back to cheering him.

(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 3.4.06 1748)


"Speaking of Thomases, I loved your recent Atrocious GM Summit column, although I think that you flatter Isiah Thomas far too much by suggesting that he is merely one of a number of atrocious GMs. The truth is that Rob Babcock and Billy King are Einstein next to him. The mess he is creating right now in New York will be studied by business school students 50 years from now alongside Enron and pets.com."

Malcom Gladwell, from an e-mail exchange column with Bill Simmons.
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#69 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Here's a pretty interesting take on the booing of Cena, courtesy of Arash Markazi from SI.com, who did a full four-day report you can read here.

Chris Masters and Kane came back, still in their gear, right after their matches to get something to eat and drink before taking a shower and changing. Some of the guys who've been hurt, such as Val Venis, who had a sling on his right arm, also hung out in the room along with legends like the Gagnes, the Blackjacks, Bobby "The Brain" Heenan, Tatanka, Goldust and others. After watching the first half of the show backstage with the boys, I rolled out to the arena floor to watch most of the rest of the show from my seats and was interested by the fans in Chicago, who turned on the "baby faces" and cheered the "heels" on quite a few occasions; most prominently booing champion John Cena loudly and cheering the "heel" Triple H. I watched the main event from the back since I wanted to jet out as soon as the show was done.

Former wrestler Greg Gagne, son of Hall of Famer, Verne, told me Cena came up to him and for his advice about the crowd, which was as hostile toward him as any I've seen against an athlete. "Sell," Gagne said. "Just sell and they'll turn. But that's Chicago for you. They're always hot and they always cheer for the heel." That was once again the case. I watched the main event from a monitor in the back with Kurt Angle, Viscera, Mark Henry, Benjamin, John Bradshaw Layfield and his wife, former FOX News reporter Meredith Whitney and Candice Michelle's husband, Dr. Ken Gee Ehrlich, who flew out from his West L.A. office, not only to be with his wife, who was on the cover of Playboy this month, but to serve as the chiropractor that night. After Cena finally won, a few guys in the back gave golf claps, and were still shocked at how loudly Cena was getting booed. "They can pump up that music as loud as they want," said one wrestler. "But you can't hide those boos. There's no mix in that reaction."




"You know what you need?
Some new quotes in your sig.
Yeah, I said it."
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Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#70 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.55
I honestly feel that most of the boos Cena is absorbing by this point are just because of how stale the character's been allowed to become since he jumped to RAW. Seriously, what has he done since he moved? Creative just hasn't given him anything to work with, so he goes out and does the same routine every night. When he jumped, Cena was red-hot with the entire crowd. I mean, everybody seemed to love the guy. Then his reactions got colder and colder, and now he just mainly gets boos. They almost had him back on the right track when Edge beat him for the title, because Cena finally had something new to do, to chase the title again. But they cut that fued off at the knees, put the belt back on Cena, and here we are again.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#71 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.43
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Edge/Mick was great. A million times better than what was essentially the same thing a couple years ago with Orton, on account of Edge being well beyond Orton at this point.

I know you hate Orton and all, but you REALLY didn't like that Foley/Orton match from Backlash '05?

    Originally posted by DrewDewce
    Loved the MITB match, and agree that the camera work was a bit off where Shelton Benjamin was concerned. I really wanted to see if he really springboarded off the ropes to end up on the ladder.


I thought the camera angle was perfect- it was as if Shelton came out of nowhere to jump onto the ladder. Certainly had the surprise factor. You almost gasped when you saw him appear suddenly.



College, sports and more!: Experience It



ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 97 days
Last activity: 7 days
#72 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
On the subject of that WrestleMania report on SI.com:

Gotta love that Shelton Benjamin wears the Intercontinental Title belt on his shoulder pretty much everywhere he goes. Something about that just makes me smile.

Oh, my God, Jimmy Hart's coming out with an energy drink?! That just has mirth and hilarity written ALL OVER IT! Especially the big goofy grin on the can.

I didn't know Ron Simmons was back working for WWE until I read this column. According to Wikipedia, he makes appearances for them in a promotional capacity, though he's been retired from wrestling since getting "fired" from SmackDown.

The "boy, it hurts when the fans ask when I'm getting back in the ring" comment from Christopher Nowinski makes me sad. C'mon, WWE, ya gotta at least let him show up in a managerial capacity! He's far too charismatic to be relegated to promotional appearances and SmackDown Your Vote vignettes.

I wanna hear the story about how Jimmy Hart got held up at a gas station by a convicted felon and got saved by The Ultimate Warrior! That joke just writes itself!

Gene Okerlund sounds like a nice guy, and I liked the story about how he got the nickname Mean Gene.

It's a small part of the column, but for some reason I never really envisioned someone as charismatic as Stone Cold Steve Austin standing backstage working on a speech. Nice touch to mention that and remind us that even the guys who've been on national TV a thousand times still practice what they're going to say. They're still human.

Oooh, I expected that Tommy Dreamer would be backstage, but Eric Bischoff? Sweet. I wonder what his backstage role is at the moment-- is he actually doing anything, was he just there for WrestleMania, is he a road agent, is he getting back on TV at some point? Intrigue!

Entertaining read.



"Don't do anything I wouldn't do."
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I Breastfeed John Madden
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Since: 13.4.04
From: Des Moines, IA

Since last post: 148 days
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#73 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
I don't think they'll turn Cena heel until every last replica spinner belt is sold.

But when they do, and if its done right, I can see him FINALLY becoming what they've been trying to make him for about a year now; The Rock. He's gonna get heat for pumping up his "Reeboks" and for his gestures. He'll chase the title for a while. Then, it'll become smart-hip to cheer him. The WWE will turn him face again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Just like The Rock.

But something tells me he won't be starring opposite Stiffler and Christopher Walken anytime soon.



Malone.
Ex-Cop, Ex-CIA, Ex-plosive.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 28 min.
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#74 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

    "But you know I've been in the ring before. I even have a wrestling card." I laughed, thinking Sue was playing a joke. "No, no, I'm serious. I was the Duchess of Queensbury in Chicago five years ago at our Backlash pay-per-view.


Mysteries of wrestling solved!



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 16 days
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#75 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

    Originally posted by geemoney
    I thought the camera angle was perfect- it was as if Shelton came out of nowhere to jump onto the ladder. Certainly had the surprise factor. You almost gasped when you saw him appear suddenly.
Yes and no. On one hand, I agree with you that him popping in the picture from out of nowhere & landing perfectly on the ladder was pretty awesome & got a good pop at the sports bar I was watching from, but on the other hand I do feel cheated that I didnt get to see him actually springboard from off the top rope and land perfectly on the ladder. I'm trying to picture what what looks like in my head and it just sounds crazy.




You should visit AlenOnline.com today
CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#76 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.89
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Oh, my God, Jimmy Hart's coming out with an energy drink?! That just has mirth and hilarity written ALL OVER IT! Especially the big goofy grin on the can.
This was an early TNA Impact sponsor - if I remember right, the ring/ramp decorations disappeared pretty quickly after Hart and WWE re-established some sort of relationship. Ah, here's his site: http://www.mouthofthesouth.tv/





CRZ
jackdaniels
Loukanika








Since: 19.1.06
From: ireland

Since last post: 3094 days
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#77 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.82
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    : Honestly, I think it's disrespectful for fans to turn up to a show and say "hey, you know what? I'm gonna boo the fuck outta that guy tonight for no real reason!".


Im sorry I have to disagree with you here. In no way is it disrespectful for fans to decide to boo a wrestler. They can boo and cheer whoever they like. it is up to the company to try and do something with that reaction. Booing Cena IMO is the right thing to do, he has been shoved down our throats through poor booking and terrible matches for far too long. He looks like an idiot because we can all sense that he is forcing everything he does. Do I want the rap angle to end? Im not sure, I dont think he would ever make it into the main event again if he dropped all the wrapper stuff straight away but writers need to find another way to present him because to be quite honest I dont want to watch him. if i decide to go to a WWE event i have every right to express such a feeling however I want. And by the number of people who did boo Cena I think it is obvious that many people feel the same.
Cena can go on being a fake face but fans will keep giving him stick and in the end the only one coming out of feuds with him possessing any real heat will be him, which is in no way good for business.



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PerthHeat
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Since: 16.8.04
From: Perth Australia

Since last post: 2995 days
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#78 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.70
Should have really asked this before... Is Rey Mysterio the first masked wrestler to win a Heavyweight WWE title? Either the Raw or Smackdown Heavyweight Title



if you cant stand the heat...buy icecream
Von Maestro
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.1.04
From: New York

Since last post: 195 days
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#79 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.40
Mankind & Vader come to mind, although those aren't quite "full" masks...
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 5 days
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#80 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
    Originally posted by Von Maestro
    Mankind & Vader come to mind, although those aren't quite "full" masks...


I'd still count them. And don't forget Kane (for all 24 hours he was champion)!

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 4.4.06 1047)


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I would award points for winning any match, but on a progressive basis. By that I refer to "having momentum". Having a decent record by alternating wins and losses means your going nowhere.
Related threads: WrestleMania 22: There is something very wrong with this company - Stationed and ready LIVE in Chicago - Mania Press Conference - More...
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