Count me in on the liking of the ME finish. John Cena has invoked the most odd, unique reactions out of WWE audiences that I can personally ever rememeber. It sounds like unanimous hate because men are louder than girls and children, but it's not X-Pac heat even from them. Everyone is totally into his matches. People are on their feet from start to finish. Interpreting this as Triple H being over would be really short-term booking, because he's not. He's not a face, and he's not the guy who should up-end Cena. Personally, I think RVD is, as now is the time to take advantage of him before he loses the ability to do the things he does so well. In any case, Triple H winning a redundant thousandth title means nothing, takes us back to where we were before Cena was Champ, which if I may say so was much less interesting.
The MITB was good, but not great. Even a ladder match can have psychology, and a match like this needs Jerichos and Benoits and even Edges to be in it to give it that. Flair's studly bumps were impressive, but at this juncture he's becoming somewhat of a swerving drunk driver who you're watching in anticipation of an impending disaster. I just cringe watching him take even basic bodydrop bumps, let alone getting suplexed off ladders. Lashley's reaction times were brutal, but he shouldn't have been placed in this match in the first place. Finley's praise has been deserved, but he really contributed nothing to this match. So it came down to RVD and Shelton's athletic ability, which were enough to make it good, but not great.
Shawn/Vince was solid. I was very concerned about Vince's ego getting the best of him and him trying to do a lot of stuff he physically shouldn't even attempt (i.e., anything). He didn't. He just took a shellacking. The chairshot was ridiculous, but I didn't worry about anything else. The elbowdrop spot was brilliant, and was needed to move the crowd away from "We Want Bret" sentiment. As an aside, we have seen a man shoving another man's face into his father's open ass, a golden shower, and then a man having his face shoved into his own father's open ass, while his father inexplicably enjoys it (granted, he thought it was Shawn, but still, glee?). I mean, when people say the McMahons are creepy, I have to agree. What a fucked-up, creepy storyline from start to finish. Thank God it's over.
Trish/Mickie was good. If they wanted Trish to be the face, she should have been in a chasing role. Trish is a lame face anyhow, and it saddens me that there will be no end in sight to her in that capacity, as apposed to the heel role she did better than anyone in the business at the time, male or female. Where do we go from here? Hard to say when you don't have any women in the division.
Angle/Orton/Rey should have gone on last. Rey won the Royal Rumble. It should have been longer than 5 minutes. Angle should have looked better than either of them, and did, because everyone knows he is. Rey winning the WWE Title would make sense, more than the world heavyweight title. Fans not being fully behind Rey was a little lame, but Mania crowds are goofy that way.
Taker's impressive tombstone on Henry would have been MORE impressive if they hadn't given it away on free television a couple months ago. The dive was scary and awkward. Right finish. At this point I'd say let Taker keep the damn streak. Anyone who ends it is going to be completely shat on with the worst kind of heat, so it won't do anyone any good.
Edge/Mick was great. A million times better than what was essentially the same thing a couple years ago with Orton, on account of Edge being well beyond Orton at this point. Lita is the best manager in wrestling, and adds a fantastic dimension to Edge's character. Foley hurt it with his exit, during which he didn't even try to appear as if he was disappointed with his loss. I mean, we all know you showed up to collect a check, Mick, but at least maintain character up to the gorilla position. Firetable was awesome.
JBL/Benoit was a tough call. It was neither here nor there. Waste of Benoit, really, and you hate to say this about anything involving Crippler, but this match didn't really need to be on the show. JBL's gimmick never got over at the level they portrayed it, but has been consistently entertaining, only impeded by his complete and glaring lack of talent in the ring. At this point, however, his gimmick is growing stale and there is a sense that it has gone as far as it can possibly go. I don't know that a repackaging would be wise, as everything else he did was vastly inferior and he's too identifiable with the self-made millionaire shtick to be welcome in any other role, but something needs to be changed up with him before he becomes utterly useless. Benoit needs to be moved back into the main event picture to take some of the pressure off Angle and his ailing neck.
Bogey/Book was another waste of a talented guy. At Booker T's age, the smart thing to do is to get the most mileage that is possible out of him while you still can. He's got many bright years ahead of him after his ring days are over due to his mutant charisma and ability to make almost anything watchable, but he can still go pretty well. Use that. Don't feed him to a useless gimmick that, while competent mid-card filler (particularly on house shows), came out to silence and won to silence and has no future. Sharmell is brilliant in her role as well, her charisma on commentary with Cole and Tazz is delightful.
The Pillow Fight...Ugh. Why?
All in all, glad I saw it. Certainly has me interested in the future.
Okay, I finally navigated the horrible Allstate Arena parking lot and got home. I purposely didn't read any posts as I wanted to give my live thoughts without being colored by you wieners.
I was in section 215 Row M - second level almost directly opposite the entrance ramp. Decent seats. I don't have a ton of reaction, nor did I take notes, but here's what I got.
Dark Match - Raw v. Smackdown Battle Royal.
Viscera won. Eliminated MNM and The Road Warrior before finishing off with Snitsky (I think, I was just back from picking up my new RKO t-shirt). No Rated-R Superstar shirts and only 12 styles in all to choose from - check out shopzone, I guess.
-Tag Match Interesting starter here. Thoughts were that every champ would lose the belts. Kane's fire is hot from across the arena
-Benoit/JBL Maybe should have been the first match? I personally thought Benoit would be the only one to retain.
-MITB My bog prediction of the night - Flair winning, then beating HHH in the post-main event looked good with the faked X signal to the back. Benjamin's leap from the rope to the ladder was easily the Holy Shit moment of the night - more than the flaming table. Side note - he did a little ninja-like dive roll on the outside to get into position just before he pulled that off. The crowd LOVES RVD.
-Boogeyman/Booker T& Sharmell 1st bathroom break
-Foley/Edge Our section gained a ton of respect for Edge. I guess he bled from the back, arm and head? It was the same reaction that Orton got from my friends when he took the thumbtacks. For us, this was 2nd best of the night.
-Taker/Henry It is what it was.
-McMahon/HBK I thought this was a giant HBK stroke-fest and I usually don't mind that so much, but this one rubbed me the wrong way.
-Stratus/James This was a great match right up until the last blown spot. Mickie James got the first really sustained chant for her. The crowd was all turned around HHH/Cena style - loving James and shitting on Trish.
-Smackdown Triple Threat I picked Rey in my pool because I honestly couldn't figure what they would do, so I picked the least likely scenario. I wonder if they couldn't figure out what to do - that's why it was so odd. Those guys could go 30 minutes easy.
-Playboy 2nd bathroom break.
-HHH/Cena Not sure how it came across on TV, but the crowd was crazy all over Cena. There weren't any pro- or anti-HHH chants, it was all dueling Cena chants. The "Fuck You Cena" was much louder in person than the "Let's Go Cena" chants. I remember a slugfest in the middle of the ring with the crowd cheering Trips shots and booing Cena's bad punches.
Final Thoughts: We we're obviously disappointed with the outcomes. My friends and I are Orton/HHH guys. I would say that we were underwhelmed by the card as a whole. I've definitely been to better PPVs, but that said am not upset about going. I guess that says it all about our kind of wrestling fans - okay show, but we are content with it.
Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor?-Booyaka by C.O.D. -Im a fan of rap/hip-hop plus I'm hispanic (if its relevant, and it isnt) and I think that was pretty crappy.
It was P.O.D. -- C.O.D. (ititches.com) is much better.
Anyway, the highlight for me was Goldust back in a Booker T segment.
I think all the right decisions were made booking this show, and I think everyone was on their game. My problem this year is that I don't really care about any of the feuds. Maybe I'm outgrowing the product, but I think it's just really that stale (since it seems to be a foregone conclusion here). However, given what they led up to 'Mania with this year, the show was much better than anyone could have expected.
I like that Vince actually got what he wanted out of Shawn Michaels. He took a beating, but he won the psychological battle. The crotch chop sealed it.
Fun fact only your sister could pick up on: The white material used in Rey's mask wasn't just white this time-- it was a Louis Vuitton pattern, i.e. with the LV logo all over it.
And I liked Rey's headdress, but would have rather seen Cena and HHH's entrances only as video packages... HHH looked the part (Cena just looked like a flasher), but neither really seemed to fit live as entrances. The HHH thing would have looked great on an actual medieval location or set-- and with a goblet of mead rather than a bottle of Poland Spring.
Watched WrestleMania at Baker Street with two hundred screaming wrestling fans for the second straight year, and I had just as much fun this year as I had last year. Maybe even more.
Rey Mysterio winning the World Heavyweight Title. Glad to see it; too bad it took Eddie's death to get WWE serious about giving Rey a push. Rey deserved to have his name chanted at the end of the match, you know?
Money in the Bank 2, while it didn't have the "holy shit" moments of the first MitB match, was still very, very good. Dug the Side Effect off the ladder, the superplex that temporarily eliminated Flair, the assisted powerbomb on Lashley, etc. Shelton Benjamin kicked nine kinds of ass just like he did last year. And I'm glad to see that WWE might actually be serious about pushing RVD for a change. Mr. Money in the Bank, baby!
I'm actually cool with JBL winning the U.S. Title off of Chris Benoit (though Benoit is my dude); JBL's entertaining as a champion and it'll be interesting to see who gives him his comeuppance. Plus, it frees up Benoit to possibly compete for the World Title in the near future-- maybe against Rey, Angle, Orton or Batista.
With all due respect to Trish and Mickie, their match gets the "Most Surprisingly Good Match of the Night" award. Because not only did they demonstrate what we already knew (that they can wrestle), but they were both bringing the VIOLENCE, too. Good show. I loved and was shocked by both the "vaginal claw" and the cunnilingus sign from Mickie, and I'm looking forward to seeing this feud continue with Trish even more pissed off at Mickie than she already is.
Shawn/Vince was notable basically for Shawn beating the fuck out of Vince. God, I don't think I've ever seen Vince get the hell beaten out of him like he did tonight. Which, of course, is naturally a crowd-pleaser. I, and everyone else at Baker Street, were going, "Good NIGHT, what the hell is Shawn going to do to him NOW?!" Which, of course, is no doubt precisely what WWE was going for.
Big Show finally won a WrestleMania match! Which is the only part of that match that deserves to be in the "DASCOOL" column-- see below in the "YOU SUCK" section.
On the subject of the other no-rules match, I also liked Edge/Foley for its raw, unadulterated carnage. I didn't think anything could top Foley's match with Orton at Backlash '04 in that regard, but by the end of the match both Edge and Foley were FUCKED UP. Also count me as shocked and awed about the flaming table spot. Holy shit.
Booker T's segment with Goldust and the other freaks was great, though it was cringe-inducing seeing Snitsky and Mae Young. But at least Snitsky's "That was not my fault!" got a chuckle from the Baker Street crowd.
I know everyone here's been shitting on the main-event entrances, but I thought they were AWESOME! When Trips came out dressed as "The King of Kings", riding out on his throne complete with scepter, crown and Conan the Barbarian outfit, I thought, "Holy crap, I knew the guy had an ego, but jeez!" But I thought it was great! I was kind of worried there for a moment that Trips had gotten a new King of Kings theme song, but when it segued into "Time to Play the Game", I was pleased. I'm still not back to being a Triple H fan like I was in 2000, but the man's got the best fuckin' entrance in the history of the universe, I'll give him that much.
The John Cena gangster thing was great, too. Dug the limo coming out and the gangsters looking around and under the ring, tommy guns in hand. In terms of individual Best Costume, though, I'll give it to Triple H because he, himself, went the whole nine yards with the crown and scepter and (I guess it's a) loin cloth. Cena basically had a trench coat on over his regular wrestling attire, and a tommy gun. Advantage: Triple H.
I was surprised that they had Cena retain here, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. It could be that Triple H is possibly passing the torch, you know? Hmm. And whoever eventually dethrones Cena is gonna get an even bigger boost, because "Hey, he beat the guy who beat The Game at WrestleMania!"
Another thing to note, and then I'll move on to the "YOU SUCK"s: Though Triple H was the crowd favorite in Chicago by a large margin from what I could hear, the Baker Street crowd was a heavily partisan Cena crowd.
The Undertaker/Mark Henry match, though notable for 'Taker's insane suicide dive, still sucked, overall. I'd give it a little bit higher than the one star everyone's giving it, but not much more-- two stars, maybe, or 1 1/2.
And what, no special Undertaker entrance this year, just the druids bringing out the coffin and the stupid cartoony lightning flash? WE WUZ ROBBED!
Still, the right person went over, and I hope Mark Henry enjoyed his WWE career while he had it, because after this summer he'll never be seen again in the ring except maybe in Japan (where no doubt he'd be mad over-- for some reason the fans over there were big-time Vader marks, too.)
The Booker T/Goldust/freaks segment was the highlight of Booker's night, because his match sucked donkey balls. Then again, it's not as if Book really had much to work with.
I'm as heterosexual as the next guy, but not only did the Playboy match do nothing for me, it was ill-advised to place it immediately following Rey's title win. For that matter, I agree that Rey's match should have gone on last, and should've lasted longer than it did.
The tag-team division's going nowhere, as tonight's opening match only reinforced. Still, if it's buildup to a long-overdue Carlito face turn, then das? Dascool! Because nobody-- and The Rock means nobody-- is going to root for Chris Masters if he's the one to turn.
OK, so the referees do the wink, wink to the smarks with the "we're putting up the X, so ohmygod Ric Flair's seriously hurt", he leaves the match, does his big Willis Reed return to the contest, and is a non-factor for the remainder of the match. Huh?
Interesting that both Shawn Michaels and Triple H did a shout-out to the D-X fans with the "suck it" sign. If Shawn's match tonight was an indication that he's going back to Shawn Michaels circa 1997, I think it'd be very interesting. Not sure if Trips and Shawn would be able to co-exist if D-X is reformed, though. Nor am I 100% sure it'd be a good idea even if they write their way out of the logic hole of Shawn and Trips being buddy-buddy again. But we'll see.
SIGN OF THE NIGHT (2):
1. Briefly seen before the Triple Threat match: "Orton likes 3-ways with men"
2. The Undertaker crossing-eyes sign, prominently seen after 'Taker's match
This was, in my mind, the best WrestleMania event from top to bottom since 2001's WrestleMania X-Seven (which, to me, is the pinnacle of the WWF's history). It was chock-full of big-time matches; if only they'd been able to tell a compelling story with most of them months in advance it might have been even better.
Still, I loved the show, and I had a good time watching it with other wrestling fans.
(edited by ekedolphin on 3.4.06 0142) "Don't do anything I wouldn't do." --Stone Cold Steve Austin
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ohh...well said on everything, ekedolphin. you mirror my thoughts exactly. the only reason i'm replying is to ask if it's been confirmed that the whole Flair injury thing was a work or not? It seems everyone's instant opinion on the Flair injury spot was that it was a work.
that seriously came out of nowhere and it looked like he had really been caught off-guard with the pain. if it was a work, well done. since I marked like crazy when Flair made it back.
Tag Match-The only thing that I noticed were Carlito ditching the purple for the orange. Glad it was short. And sets up the teased Masters/Carlito feud for a while.
MITB2 - Why I asked, was this the second match of the night? But then again, considering the placement of matches on the card, it really didn't end up surprising me. RVD & Benjamin totally made the match, and really upstaged Hardy, who you'd think would have excelled due to the experience he had with the TLC matches back in the day. RVD winning was awesome...and his reaction was great.
US Title-The stage lifting for JBL's limo was awesome, and so were Jillian's chesticular fortitude, probably one of the rare times I just felt indifferent to Benoit wrestling.
Edge/Foley-100 times better than I really thought it'd be, mostly for the sick shit that happened...did anyone just really cringe after Edge took the bump onto the thumbtacks, and came up with all of those tacks just buried into the flesh in his back? Flaming table spot was cool, and so was the barbwire socko to not only Edge, but Lita too..OMG!!!
Trish/Mickie-Never ever ever have I liked women's wrestling, but I get a perverse joy out of watching Mickie James the Psycho. I went in thinking there would be a lot of her groping Trish to get a reaction, but only the one noticable crotch grab (with subsequent licking of the fingers). If not for the blown spot..who's not to say how great this match really ends up?
HBK/VKM-Loved watching Vince & Shane get the shit beat out of them, and loved even more all the shit JR was talking. Figured the DX chop was more of a sendoff due to the rumors of him taking a lot reduced schedule after Mania. Also loved the way they basically gave an instant out for McMahon-a-Mania from being on Raw week in and week out, hopefully they follow through, and wonder if Bischoff makes his return, beings he was at the HOF ceremony last night.
SD-ME-Should have been the main event, what, we needed this to be 3rd from last to watch the cool but over the top and unnecessary entrances by HHH The Barbarian drippin in Bling Bling and Cena Capone the Flasher. Thought at the beginning the bumped the Playboy Pillow fight, but nope. Cut the match short, and leave everyone wanting more...BOOO! Glad to see Rey Rey won, and strange to see he was sans-EG armband. (BTW, San Diego State's mascot are the Aztecs, and I'm guessing his headwear was tribute to that)
PlayboyPillowFight-I forgot, this actually happened?
HHH/Cena-I dreaded the thought of HHH getting the belt back, and really dreaded it with the "king of kings" song, and the throne and whole 9 yards. Then figured WWE might play to the crowd and give HHH the belt. Listening to the crowd, who had been crazily booing Cena and cheering HHH in spite of Cena was interesting, and watching them stunned with their Jaws on the ground was utterly priceless. HA!
Other than the way some of the shit was positioned on the card, it was pretty entertaining, but should have really ended with Rey's crowning achievement, not Cena winning in spite of the crowd hoping otherwise. I think they set some interesting stuff up for the post-Mania run, and I may be alone, but I hope Trish/Mickie continue on for a long long time. I think they could have handled Bret not showing up for the honoring of the HOFers...kinda pissed me off the way Fink handled that.
Like gater, I too was live at the Allstate Arena for WrestleMania.
Was pretty pissed off that the HHH King of Kings shirt and the Orton red RKO-nWo style shirt were all gone by the time I reaced the merch table.
I had crappy seats, balcony, to the left behind the stage. Didn't help that WWE decied to be assholes and block the view of us balcony people with banners.
Battle Royal was ok. Laughed when MNM tried to do the Snapshot on Vis.
Don't know how it came on TV, but myself and the people around me expected Carlito and Masters to turn eachother then and there. Disaponted when it didn't happen.
MITB was great, everyone was shoeked when Shelton jumped the ropes onto the ladder. A little worry for Flair, and I even asked if he fell on the ropes to cause an injury. RVD was insanly over.
Foley/Edge - flaming table was insane. When Mick reveled thed Cactus Jack garb underneth, I tried to get a "Cactus Jack" chant started, don't know how that turned out.
Vince/HBK - I chanted "Bret's Not Here" everytime "We Want Bret" was chanted. a few joined me, but nothing much. a slight "Austin" chant started when the Spirit Squad attacked HBK, again, no payoff to that either.
Trish/Mickie - Why did we cheer Mickie? I'll tell you why. CHicagoians know all to well about diapointment in your sports heroes (Cubs, anyone?). So we all supported Micke to beat Tish for shunning Mickie just because Micke was a superfan. Yeah, she fucked up the finish, and yeah we let her know about it. But we still cheered when she won the strap.
Angle/Orton/Rey - Rey looked like Tatanka with that head garb. Too much pyron made the room smokey, leading to a "We can't see you" chant from us blinded by smoke. Rey wasn't booed from my section, and Orton wasn't cheered, either. Whn Rey hit the West Coast Pop, the corwn stood up, and went crazy when the ref's hand hit the mat a third time. I guess Vicky came out, cause I heard an "Eddie" chant, but was in no position to see the stage.
HHH/Cena - We shat on Cena. We cheered HHH's every hit, and booed Cena's every hit. WHy did we cher HHH? At this point we'd cheer Satan himself if he could take the belt off Cena. We know how HHH is with the belt, but it's better then what Cena brings. Was very disapointed that the front rows didn't pull a WCW Bash at the Beach 96 an litterd the ring after Cena won.
I think the WWE gave the IWC the big F-U with how the played out the HHH/Cena main event.
And I think that's awesome.
I thought Cena/HHH wasn't anything more than it could have been. A limited worker (Cena) against a guy who only tries when he's working against his friends (HHH).
And speaking of HHH, does his entrance mean that he's inked the deal to be in King Conan: Crown of Iron?
I'm just really excited to see how all the people who were betting their farms on Bret showing up back-peddle on the fact that he actually is a person of his word and that Montreal wasn't a work like they were all hoping it was.
(edited by Whattaburger on 2.4.06 2343)
(edited by Whattaburger on 2.4.06 2346) It's just a message board, people. Chill out. Now, go show your internet diapproval of me! YEA!
Originally posted by gaterWe we're obviously disappointed with the outcomes. My friends and I are Orton/HHH guys. I would say that we were underwhelmed by the card as a whole. I've definitely been to better PPVs, but that said am not upset about going. I guess that says it all about our kind of wrestling fans - okay show, but we are content with it.
Wow your friends are pretty dumb. I mean, Orton/HHH guys? This whole attitude has been pissing me off for the last coupla months. You get all these idiots cheering the heels, and you just KNOW if said heels went over they'd pop for it and then spend the following months sitting on their hands and acting all "well gee, now that they've GONE OVER we don't really know what to do about it all!". It's contraniness and smart-alecky behaviour for the sake of it, and it really got up my nose during the Women's and World Heavyweight Title matches.
So yeah, I'm glad about the outcome of the main event. I like how it totally shut the Cena-haters up and got his supporters cheering even louder, leaving a very positive impression of the decision. It means jack seeing as Hunter's likely to take the strap back at Backlash, but I like that they stood by a guy who has essentially been shat on for no good reason, even if it was just for this one night. Putting Cena over here protects him for the future, as even if he does drop the title to Hunter in a month's time he has that clean win on the biggest card of the year to boost him.
The rest of the card was, by and large, aces. The SmackDown and US title matches were royally fucked by poor time management, but the five guys made the most of the ten minutes or so each bout was given. Edge/Foley was psychotic (side note: HMD, I took Foley's post-match glee to mean that, despite losing, he had found his defining Mania moment in the flaming table and the massive post-match love-in from the fans.). Not up there with the classic RassleManias, but certainly better than 90% of their last twelve shows.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 3.4.06 0535) To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Originally posted by ekedolphinI know everyone here's been shitting on the main-event entrances, but I thought they were AWESOME!
Those entrances literally made the show for me. So over the top...so surreal. I will watch those incessantly over the next couple of months. I'll watch the match too, because it was awesome. In every respect (or at least, as awesome as it could be). I loved the work, I loved the crowd, I loved the finish.
The show built to a peak at the end of the of the Foley-Edge match - I liked that match a hundred times more than I thought I would (mostly because of Edge and Lita's performances) - then it plateaued, maybe even dipped a little, then started coming alive at the end of the HBK-Vince match, then went up from there.
Very good overall.
1) I'm so happy with the end of the Triple Threat Match.
2) I'll tell you the moment that made the night for me: when Cena went for the cross-body off the top and missed, and King yelled "That's not in his repertoire, what's he doing!?!" That, along with the pre-match candid shots, the entrances and the introductions made the match *real* to me.
Originally posted by gaterWe we're obviously disappointed with the outcomes. My friends and I are Orton/HHH guys. I would say that we were underwhelmed by the card as a whole. I've definitely been to better PPVs, but that said am not upset about going. I guess that says it all about our kind of wrestling fans - okay show, but we are content with it.
Wow your friends are pretty dumb. I mean, Orton/HHH guys? This whole attitude has been pissing me off for the last coupla months. You get all these idiots cheering the heels, and you just KNOW if the heels went over they'd pop for it and then spend the following months sitting on their hands and acting all "well gee, now that they've GONE OVER we don't really know what to do! about it all!". It's contraniness and smart-alecky behaviour for the sake of it, and it really got up my nose during the Women's and World Heavyweight Title matches.
Wait a minute? My friends are dumb because they like someone? Listen you sanctimonious little twerp, what gives you the right to tell people that they can't have favorites? Who gives a shit if they are heels or not? We like their gimmick, we like their personality, we like their wrestling. You like to sit back as part of the IWC and hypocritically bash those who make choices you deem "not correct". You are just as bad as those you attack.
Stone Cold Steve Austin (and a few others before him) changed this business forever. Heels today aren't the heels of the past. Yeah, they get heat for doing heelish things, but they inject a level of personality that appeals to the audience as well. Take Triple H's smug, arrogant promo of a few weeks ago. Awesome.
So, yeah, we would've popped for Orton or Triple H's win. Sorry about that. Do me a favor and and send me a book on how I'm supposed to cheer and who I'm supposed to cheer for.
Originally posted by ekedolphinWhen Trips came out dressed as "The King of Kings", riding out on his throne complete with scepter, crown and Conan the Barbarian outfit, I thought, "Holy crap, I knew the guy had an ego, but jeez!"
Maybe he's auditioning for that "Son of Conan" movie ... or the next "Masters of the Universe" film?
Oh get off your high horse you big baby. You spend half the time talking about how the fed aren't booking properly, then the other half about how cool the heels are and how you'd pop for the win despite them being booked solely as heels and most people seeing them that way. And THEN you'd insist they STAY heels, despite you popping for them, because if they turned face they'd be "lame". It's the same kind of thinking that's let to Cena's bizarre up-and-down, side-to-side reactions and booking for the past twelve months. It's the same kind of of dumbass faux-smark fanboy crap that saw people labelling Jericho as stale not two months after he turned face in 2004 because suddenly everyone was cheering for him. I have no problem with cheering a heel whom you want to see turn face, but we know that's not the case here.
So yeah, you and your friends are dumb. You want to cheer them solely for being heels, which is totally counterproductive and neuters the characters and storyline the company and the wrestlers work hard to create. And all for no other reason than its KEWL to hate on faces.
Oh, and "hypocritically judging from the IWC"? Gime a fuckin' break. If anything I'd advocate less smart-ass I-net shit, as all it does is lead to moronic things like an entire crowd cheering for HHH to win the belt just because it's in vogue to dislike the WWE's current favoured main-eventer.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 3.4.06 0545) To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Overall it was a really good show. More specific thoughts would go somthing like this:
-Both Carlito and Kane had their magic boots on tonight, and you know this since I don't think Kane has thrown a dropkick since he was the Unabomber. Not a great match, but certainly better than I expected, mostly because Big Show and Masters were only used sparingly.
-It was really a tale of two ladder matches, since you had half the principals bring the spotty spotty and the other half bring the smacky smacky. Which means that there were some great individual moments, but it had trouble being one coherent match because of it. Still enjoyed, but it just wasn't up to last year's snuff.
-Time Time Time Isn't On My Side No It Ain't #1: JBL did what he was supposed to do at the end, which was commit Grand Theft Title in the face of being outwrestled, since that's what heels do, but after this I can see why he's better suited for brawls and not tech-fests. The taunting was...unexpected at best but was only amusing for JBL's utter lack of shimmy rhythm. Also wasn't really given enough time to take off, and so the ground stuff at the beginning didn't really get to mean something and they didn't get enough of a chance to let this take off higher than it did.
-Time Time Time Isn't On My Side No It Ain't #2: See, this is the problem about teasing a flaming table: if you tease it, you damn sure better be prepared to deliver. Fortunately they were. And for it's own main event at any other PPV it could have been a little longer, but for a stacked card it was probably the right amount of time. It was basically the same match Foley's been putting the youngins over with for a few years now, but with some new stuff to go with it. I don't mind the same album done over again so long as the band adds a barb wire belt and a flaming table section.
-Yes, the Boogeyman-Booker match was awful but I don't care as long as what led up to it was a WrestleCrap equivelent of those ESPN Mobile commercials. Nice to see Ted back in his full EVIL LAUGH~ glory on this. As for the match, the less worm about it, the wormier.
-It shouldn't surprise me that the thing that's been built up the best was pulled off as well as it was. Although the one thing I'll say about Mikkie's heel character is that except for the 1-2 lesbo spots that she pulled off, I didn't see a lot (which is to say, not enough) of the crazies in her ringwork. Prolly that needs to be worked on, but otherwise everything here except for the finish was solid, although to Trish's credit, she sold the last kick like death and they did it off an adlib. Also, easily the best women's match in WM history.
-The casket match was simply an off-night for both of them, although Mark Henry doesn't have much in the bag if the other guy isn't selling like a motherfucker for him, which isn't Taker's fault that he's not smaller and has a power-based gimmick/style. So this really didn't mesh well as a result. Also, it's because the 1972 Dolphins didn't show up after all...THEN the perfect season would have been thwarted.
-First off, Vince McMahon took a legitamate level 5 beating in this from all of the unprotected plunder shots that were here. The only gripe I have about this is that it took too long to set up some of the spots and some of it was moving a little too slowly. Vince might have taken a shitkicking for the sake of my entertainment, but he was also laboring a bit. But it was righteous asswhipping at its best. Now if only I actually was interested in the angle in the first place.
Time Time Time Isn't On My Side No It Ain't #3: Add Hawkman to the member list of Rey Rey's Hall of Wrestlemania Justice. The whole concept of Rey-as-world-champion I don't think has really sunk in yet, partly because I never thought I'd ever see the day when this trigger gets pulled. Hopefully they don't overdo the giant-killer formula too much, but since the first obvious opponent is either Angle, Orton or both (both is OK, too...since I'd love to see what they'd do with 30 minutes as opposed to 10), the Rey In The Land Of The Giants aspect will either be played out on TV or a little later.
-It was a pillow fight only in the most literal sense of the term, because yes. Around them there were pillows.
-For any of us who were curious about what a Berzerker-Big Bully Busick WrestleMania main event would look like, I think we got our question answered. To be fair, both Cena and Triple Huss worked their asses off in this match and didn't seem to be thrown off by the crowd at any point. Well, except for the moments where HHH played out and out babyface for them but what the hell, the last time he played face it ended up with bad results, so who's to spite him a little glory-hounding? When you have a crowd that's yelling BOO/YEA on indivividual fists, that's just amazing. Say what you want about the crowd, but at least during the match it wasn't apathetic. That said, I don't care what the spin control says, there's still a problem going on with Cena that duct tape isn't going to solve. At least he hasn't gone completely insane and blessed us all with his incoherent ramblings and extremist right-wing gobbelygook. Yet.
Originally posted by The Sham And I liked Rey's headdress, but would have rather seen Cena and HHH's entrances only as video packages... HHH looked the part (Cena just looked like a flasher), but neither really seemed to fit live as entrances. The HHH thing would have looked great on an actual medieval location or set-- and with a goblet of mead rather than a bottle of Poland Spring.
(edited by The Sham on 3.4.06 0032)
You are officially my hero. I thought I was the only one who picked up on the LV pattern. I was screaming at the TV last night going "Holy shit! First he comes out looking like one of the Village People on Mayan holiday and now he's got the LV Murakami mask." Ladies and gentlemen, Rey-Rey is the first ever Metrosexual champion. My boyfriend didn't understand my shock at the LV mask, but at least someone else picked up on it and I wasn't seeing things.
HHH looked like he was doing a blatant call to be casted for Conan the King with Arnold stepping back due to gubernatorial duties. I kind of liked the entrances and the costumes. It brought back more of the aura of spectacle that WM should be known for. I do, however, agree with you that Cena looked more like a flasher. Would it have killed him to have some breakaway pinstripe pants? Have HBK hook him up with his tailor and it could have been done right.
Helluva show. One of those shows where you enjoy it to pieces but question the choices a few hours afterward.
Kane/Big Show vs Carlito/Masters: I dug it. No one was made to look bad, and everyone had a moment. Good opener, sensible ending. That crowd as chanting for Carlito as soon as he tagged in. I am hypnotized by Masters's velour shorts, and you couldn't see his fallopian tubes design this time.
MITB: The Lovely Mrs. Tracker hadn't seen a TLC-style ladder match before and was terrified the whole time. She dug the Side Effect and gasped when Hardy fell from the second ladder at the end. She also was shocked at the build of Lashley. Shelton's ladder diving board stunt was fantastic. I don't get the use of Flair here.
Benoit vs. JBL: I didn't hear any fans cheering or JBL, so I was surprised he played the Eddie card to get heat. I also don't get why Cole and Tazz played dumb about Benoit softening up JBL's neck and upper back early on. He's only been using the rolling Germans and headbutt for a decade now. I'm cool with the ending.
Edge vs Mick Foley: Yeah, Mick lost again, but that was fun. Great images and a killer ending. Barbewire Socko was brutal.
Booker vs. Boogeyman: The missus wants to know if Boogeyman is supposed to look like he walked off the set of Live and Let Die. Can you believe this guy walked onto the last Tough Enough, was ousted dramatically oncamera, and just walked into WM at the 90-minute mark? And won?
Trish vs. Mickie: And the crowd turns. Trish was throwing her leg at Mickie to give her offense, and James did good. I have hated this charater, her performance, and the storyline since virtually her debut, but she played to that crowd like a champ. Smart submission moveset to work the knee.
Undertaker vs Mark Henry: TLMT is perplexed by Druids chanting Gregorian. She got bored with this and picked up a book.
Vince vs. Shawn: TLMT called for Vince to get hit by lightning to finish the match. God's finishing move: The Smite. She had not seen DX in any incarnation, and the crotch chop lead to a brief pause and explanation. Such a weird ending. The crowd booed Shawn's cruelty until he set up the table spot. And when he gave the first chop, he fully won them back over.
Rey vs. Angle vs. Orton: Hot entrances and a killer headdress for Rey. Not so much a wrestling match as a series of spots, but the pace was in fifth gear. TLMT wonders if a three-man suplex should be called a duplex. I nearly jumped off the couch when Rey won. And kudos to Orton for flipping into the hurracanrana.
Torrie vs. Candice: Doggie stinkface made the match.
Cena vs. Triple H: The pre-match massage loses its drama because of the disembodied hands working Triple H's shoulders. What does TLMT immediately think of when she sees Triple H's get-up?
A bizarre entrance for both, and I admit I don't like the use of guns, even blank-firing props. TLMT sees Cena's bare legs under the trenchcoat and wonders if he's gonna flash us. The story of the match is the crowd, of course, and they are RABID. The workrate is weird, but I honest to God had no idea who would win and how. Cena's splash try was from out of nowhere, and I don't think I've seen someone work so many body punches since Vader (without the match ending due to "internal inuries"). This is twice Triple H has tapped to lose a WM title match in three years so I think it gives him some breathing room from the cries that he won't put anyone over decisively (even if he did explode out of the post-FU pin attempt).
A great time was had at Stately Tracker Manor. Well worth the money.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Odd question. I didn't see the show, so I'm not sure how the Michaels-McMahon match came across. But wasn't part of McMahon's reasoning for this feud that he wanted to bring out the "evil" Michaels, when he was a crotch-chopping degenerate who didn't care for anyone but himself? That he was jealous of the guy who found a better life through Jesus? And, umm, didn't Michaels crotch-chop yesterday?
So was that a minor, spur of the moment thing, more of a nod or thank-you to the fans ... or could it possibly be a plotline for McMahon to say that even in losing the match he "won" because he got back the degenerate Michaels?
I wound up ordering it after all, and I didn't order it until over a half hour in. I saw RVD taking down the briefcase as it came in. Overall, it was a fun card, with the crowd making this event special. Ironically, one of the pluses in my personal plus-minus "should I order WM" debate was that Chicago crowds are usually super hot an thus, make even mediocre cards good. This, however was bizarre! I felt that the Smackdown main event should have been the last match. It had the most interest going in, most potential for quality, and showcased a frickin' title change. I'm pretty sure the bookers were aware of this before the show. They really could have sent the fans home happy with that ending.
Mickie James is probably the best character on either show right now, and as a result looked like the most over face on the roster last night. I think the crowd just decided to cheer and interesting character more than anything else. When a wrestler is given a good character to play, and in turn plays it well, they will get over.
The Cena-HHH match was wrong in so many ways! How apropos that HHH came out as Conan the Barbarian. Cena holding the belt at the end of the PPV reminded me of that scene from Conan where he sits on the throne by himself all miserable. He is finally, indisputably,y king of the world and in doing so became the loneliest man in the world. I never in my life thought I would be feeling sorry for the Heavyweight Champion of the World, but there I was. Where can you start with what they are doing wrong with Cena? First of all, there can be no denying that John Cena is one of the most charismatic guys in recent memory. He has a great look, is very photogenic, good physique, has a natural charisma and charm that comes off no matter what he does or says, and has in inherently likable and funny underside which can be so appealing when used right. Then why do the fans boo this guy out of the building on a nightly basis? Because the WWE seems to have forgotten that wrestling is and has always been about Archetypes. At its very core, the characters and storyline have always represented very basic and raw human emotions and political issues. Cena is hated because his character represents everything that is wrong with America. From a political perspective, your typical wrestling fan is a middle to upper middle class Joe. He probably sees punks dressed like Cena on his way to work on a daily basis acting like asses and has probably longed to see them get their asses kicked since day one. Also, this is not about race or "Hip-Hop" as JR put it last night. White people don't like Cena because he represents the spoiled rich kid next door that goes out of his way to act gangster. Black people hate him even more for the same reason, simply because instead of annoying, they find it insulting. The only way they could have made him more antagonizing of a figure is if the had him come to the ring listening to his iPod and wearing Abercrombie and Fitch hats. Of course, if they plan on turning him heel, this is exactly what they should do. The fans hate him for acting like a wanna be gansta, so they go ahead and change what type of gangster he's trying to be? If this was written as a Hollywood (brah) script, it'd be hilarious! Instead, in real life it is depressing. This Gimmick appeals to kids and women because those are the typical MTV-TRL watching demo, and they have been programmed to accept people like Cena's character as cool. The unfortunate situation here is that the Cena gimmick isn't a Main Event gimmick. Certainly John Cena is a main event talent, but that gimmick will only take a man as far as the upper mid card if they are really good, which Cena is. Its a tribute to this mans true ability and potential as a sports-entertainer that he is now a 2 time champ with such a handicap of a gimmick. By the way, thank God for JR finally shooting down the "well, he's not the greatest wrestler" crap! Since when has the WWE champion been expected to be the best technical wrestler in the world? Sure you had Bret Hart, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit as champions, but for everyone of them, you have a Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Bruno Sammartino. By the way, I just listed 3 of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Steve Austin- mid-carder- was a great technical wrestler, but Stone Cold -World Champ and WWE legend- was a punch-kick brawler. Also, could you imagine if before every Hogan match leading up the his epic WM3 match with Andre, Gorilla Monsoon would say things like "well, he's a mediocre talent, but somehow he manages to win!" How much do you think the fans would have backed that horse? I seem to have gotten off on a rant here. I should probably close off by saying that I enjoyed WrestleMania this year, but it wasn't worth the 50 bucks.
By the way, Cena getting 100% of the crowd to participate in the match was a feat I have never seen, not by Rock, Austin or even Hogan (except maybe when he slammed Andre). Usually when the fans arent into a wrestler the sit on their hands. I think that says something about John Cena right there.
Originally posted by HokienauticSo was that a minor, spur of the moment thing, more of a nod or thank-you to the fans ... or could it possibly be a plotline for McMahon to say that even in losing the match he "won" because he got back the degenerate Michaels?
Or Michaels can say you have to be careful what you wish for.
Vince assumed that if the old Michaels emerged, the two would buddy up and party hardy. But the old Shawn did everything he could to annoy and embarrass Vince.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
I'm working on a list of "who trained who" in pro wrestling, and I've run into a mystery I haven't been able to solve just with Google, so I'm throwing it out here in hopes someone will know the answer.