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The W - Pro Wrestling - Wow, RVD really DOESN'T sell
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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1347 days
Last activity: 255 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
During Monday's match with Storm, he was in that single-legged Boston crab for a good 20-30 seconds. He makes it to the ropes, which breaks the hold. But then he pops up and immediately goes into a rolling thunder? Shouldn't he at least hop around a *little* on the leg, first? But no, it's gleefully no-sold, and RVD goes into his finishing sequence.

I've been a big fan of his WWE work, but I can finally see the argument against him. He can really make his opponent look like shit.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


"...release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?"
-- Homer Simpson
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AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 3 days
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#2 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    During Monday's match with Storm, he was in that single-legged Boston crab for a good 20-30 seconds. He makes it to the ropes, which breaks the hold. But then he pops up and immediately goes into a rolling thunder? Shouldn't he at least hop around a *little* on the leg, first? But no, it's gleefully no-sold, and RVD goes into his finishing sequence.

    I've been a big fan of his WWE work, but I can finally see the argument against him. He can really make his opponent look like shit.



I agree. Although in the half-crab, the real issue shouldn't be the leg, but the back. So his real sell should have been when he came off the ropes for the thunder, he should have felt the pain and sold it. But that's RVD. It's why, among other reasons, he's a helluva spot fest, but can't seem to main event. I like watching him, but many others make their opponents look like GOLD, while moving through their move set. Angle's the king of that, but Cena is good too. You know, this is often my complaint against Benoit as well - although he's getting better.




We'll be back as soon as order is restored.....
sergeial
Boerewors








Since: 27.2.02
From: Minneapolis

Since last post: 2955 days
Last activity: 2871 days
#3 Posted on
I don't think you'll ever see RVD really sell a muscle-stretching submission hold. The pain of it, yes (and he did a great job of selling the pain while the half-crab was actually applied), but lingering effects? No.

Why? One word: Yoga.

We see the man in backstage segments where he stretches himself into positions that Lance Storm could never get him into, just to limber up.

I've seen a few complaints about RVDs no-selling in threads about this past Monday's Raw, but I thought the second half of the match was pretty good.

The first half of the match, otoh, was a steaming pile of suck, and it was due to the other perennial complaint about RVD (and Lance, too, for that matter)-- godawful punches and kicks. I think that this complaint has been exaggerated by his detractors, but RVD really lived down to their expectations this week.

sergei



"I tear my quadracep all the time! I tore it this morning, I'm fine!"-- Kurt Angle
tasslex
Salami








Since: 15.10.02
From: Eagan, MN

Since last post: 3581 days
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#4 Posted on

    Originally posted by sergeial
    I don't think you'll ever see RVD really sell a muscle-stretching submission hold. The pain of it, yes (and he did a great job of selling the pain while the half-crab was actually applied), but lingering effects? No.

    Why? One word: Yoga.

    We see the man in backstage segments where he stretches himself into positions that Lance Storm could never get him into, just to limber up.


I wish they would make a point of this at least - maybe have the announce team push the fact that because of RVD's excellent conditioning submission holds don't work on him.

And for a bit of Fantasy Booking, I just had the thought that they should have Kane lose a match or two for their Tag Team due to submission, then have RVD try and give Kane some Yoga skillz. Hilarity ensues! Of course, now that I've posted this it'll never happen. :D



I donít go to sleep at night, I job to my blankets.
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 3 days
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#5 Posted on
>>>then have RVD try and give Kane some Yoga skillz

Yeah. I believe Glenn might split right down the middle of his mask at some of the things we see RVD doing.



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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1347 days
Last activity: 255 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
AWA, I guess you're right that he would need to sell the back, not the leg. But when he DOES sell, it comes across as goofy, like he's had too many shots and put his forehead on a bat and spun around 20 times.

I understand the argument that his yoga gives him more flexibility than the average guy. But JR SHOULD make a point about that, rather than his usual RVD calls, "By gawd, he comes at you in a variety of ways... with that unorthodox style."

Of course, some people are still waiting for him to start selling the arm after that Summerslam match with Benoit.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


"...release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?"
-- Homer Simpson
The Sham
Kolbasz








Since: 20.1.02
From: Hamden, CT

Since last post: 1642 days
Last activity: 994 days
#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by tasslex
    I wish they would make a point of this at least - maybe have the announce team push the fact that because of RVD's excellent conditioning submission holds don't work on him...


Yeah, well, RVD's not on Smackdown, so he doesn't get that sort of help from announcers. Damn, Raven could have been just as good as Tazz on color OR play-by-play... it's too bad he had to leave the Heat position to wrestle and then get fired. Raven and Heyman as an announce team? Too bad Dreamer got the book NOW instead of a few months ago.



"Cram it with walnuts, ugly!"- Mr. Homer Simpson

"Nothing says 'bad ass' like beating up Randy Orton."- Matt Hocking, RAW SATIRE- January 21, 2003
tasslex
Salami








Since: 15.10.02
From: Eagan, MN

Since last post: 3581 days
Last activity: 3538 days
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by AWArulz
    >>>then have RVD try and give Kane some Yoga skillz

    Yeah. I believe Glenn might split right down the middle of his mask at some of the things we see RVD doing.


That would be the fun of it! RVD trying to make Kane be a little bit more fun/relaxed/etc could be a great storyline, almost Sitcom-like. You'd think the RAW writers could deal with that at least...



I donít go to sleep at night, I job to my blankets.
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 51 min.
AIM:  
Y!:
#9 Posted on
Originally posted by tasslex
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah. I believe Glenn might split right down the middle of his mask at some of the things we see RVD doing.

That would be the fun of it! RVD trying to make Kane be a little bit more fun/relaxed/etc could be a great storyline, almost Sitcom-like. You'd think the RAW writers could deal with that at least...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They tried that and rejected it, for whatever reason. I tell you, as much as I like Raw, they don't seem to be into character development like they are on Smackdown. But I still prefer the action on Raw - of course, that might show a certain bias for Booker and the Duds




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JohnHayduke
Polska kielbasa








Since: 17.10.02
From: Moab, Utah

Since last post: 2685 days
Last activity: 562 days
#10 Posted on
The only move RVD sells is his own frog spalsh. He sells the landing like it killed him.
Parts Unknown
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 31 days
Last activity: 9 days
#11 Posted on
I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but RVD really screwed up in the match.

At the very end, he went to the turnbuckle and gave that "about to do the frog splash" look to the crowd. He then ran to the OTHER turnbuckle and climbed up.

This made NO SENSE because he originally was going to climb the turnbuckle next to Kane, who would've protected him. Instead, he ran over to Regal's corner so Regal could do the "knock you down off the ropes" spot.

That Monday match was the first time I've agreed with RVD's detractors that he doesn't sell. It was pitiful. SPOT SPOT SPOT SPOT with no psychology...he's still in the Indy mindset.



"Also, don't incur the wrath of P.U. It can only lead to trouble." - Torchslasher
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1347 days
Last activity: 255 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Oh, that's right, PU. I remember King saying, "He looks confused."

That's just silly when you cant even set yourself up to get sabotaged properly.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


"...release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?"
-- Homer Simpson
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3179 days
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#13 Posted on
RVD sold me a joint once, does that count?
miknight
Italian








Since: 22.10.02
From: Oztraya

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#14 Posted on
i can't really blame RVD for the turnbuckle switch because it looked like he went to the turnbuckle that gave him a better shot at lance anyway.
i hadn't even thought of it till you mentioned it so i had no problem



...But remember this. ROCK...CRUSHES...SCISSORS...but scissors cuts paper...and paper wraps rock...KIFF, we have a conundrum.
(Yes, eat all of our shirts!)
chill
Landjager








Since: 18.5.02

Since last post: 2604 days
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#15 Posted on
Ummmm.... RVD does that turnbuckle spot every week. I think it's sorta dumb, but it's supposed to make it look like he's putting some thought into the move. Or maybe it's supposed to somehow create suspense?? Either way, if you recall, when he went up top, Lance Storm climbed up too and they fought for a few seconds before RVD actually flew anywhere.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3614 days
Last activity: 3614 days
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by sergeial
    I don't think you'll ever see RVD really sell a muscle-stretching submission hold. The pain of it, yes (and he did a great job of selling the pain while the half-crab was actually applied), but lingering effects? No.

    Why? One word: Yoga.

    We see the man in backstage segments where he stretches himself into positions that Lance Storm could never get him into, just to limber up.



Uh, no, being more flexible helps but still, there's a HUGE difference from doing a warmup (or even 2-man warmups) compared to someone using leverage to crank you.

And actually, the 1/2 crab targets the lower back, knee, hip, AND ankle.
Mandark
Linguica








Since: 20.9.02

Since last post: 4018 days
Last activity: 4013 days
#17 Posted on
His selling is bad in its consistency and its believability.

He will make a big show of having a hurt back, wobble around some, then snap out of it and do a Rolling Thunder. It would be easier to forgive him for selling only between moves if that selling looked good, but he just sort of grits his teeth and squints and wobbles around and shakes his fists. He doesn't make me think he's really getting hurt, which sort of takes me out of the match.
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1891 days
Last activity: 592 days
#18 Posted on
    Originally posted by chill
    Ummmm.... RVD does that turnbuckle spot every week. I think it's sorta dumb, but it's supposed to make it look like he's putting some thought into the move. Or maybe it's supposed to somehow create suspense?? Either way, if you recall, when he went up top, Lance Storm climbed up too and they fought for a few seconds before RVD actually flew anywhere.


the point is not that rvd paused at the turnbuckle, but that he did it at one turnbuckle, then thought better of it, and ran to the other turnbuckle (the one where lance storm was waiting to interfere), did it again, then jumped up. it was obvious that he forgot which turnbuckle he was supposd to jump off of, and that actually hitting the splash that early in the match would screw up the finish.

(edited by sentonBOMB on 21.2.03 1337)
NIKO
Chorizo








Since: 24.4.02
From: Amherst, Massachusetts

Since last post: 3479 days
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#19 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    But JR SHOULD make a point about that, rather than his usual RVD calls, "By gawd, he comes at you in a variety of ways... with that unorthodox style."


Dont forget his "Educated feet" (you know, one went to Harvard, the other went to Yale....God, I hate JR)



"Holy shit! Look at what I'm doing! I'm rewriting the Constitution! This fucking rules! It's much easier than I thought it would be!

---Get Your War On
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1891 days
Last activity: 592 days
#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by NIKO

      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      But JR SHOULD make a point about that, rather than his usual RVD calls, "By gawd, he comes at you in a variety of ways... with that unorthodox style."


    Dont forget his "Educated feet" (you know, one went to Harvard, the other went to Yale....God, I hate JR)



i don't necessarily hate JR, but i do agree that he's way too 'folksy' to be the mouthpiece for the biggest international wrestling promotion.
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I can't believe I'm gonna say this. They're gonna take away my IWC Member card. I'm glad Tripps is back. It gives Goldberg a credible heel to feud with, it's not like he squashed Cade and Jindrak, and Evolution looks much more powerful.
- Gugs, Raw 10-20-03 (2003)
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