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The W - Football - World Cup 2010 discussion (Page 7)
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#121 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
In summation, go Paraguay.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3 days
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#122 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
That was such a physical and intense game between Brazil and the Netherlands. After the U.S., Holland was my choice to win, so I love the result. There was too much diving in that match, but the red card was absolutely deserved, Brazil has no gripe.



The Goon
Boudin blanc
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Since last post: 14 hours
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#123 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.02
Amazingly undisciplined play by Brazil. Great victory for the Dutch!
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
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#124 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
Wow, biggest win for the Dutch in decades. What a stunner...Brazil was my pre-tournament pick to win based on the southern hemisphere theory (though, Argentina and the Guays are still alive).
The Goon
Boudin blanc
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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#125 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.02
For a match I didn't care about, that was an absolutely stunning finish between Uruguay and Ghana. Real heartbreaker for the Ghanians in extra time, with a last-second penalty shot to win it, only to hit the crossbar.

Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#126 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.35
    Originally posted by The Goon
    For a match I didn't care about, that was an absolutely stunning finish between Uruguay and Ghana. Real heartbreaker for the Ghanians in extra time, with a last-second penalty shot to win it, only to hit the crossbar.




That is the most heartbreaking finish to a WC final match I have ever seen.



-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
The Goon
Boudin blanc
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Since last post: 14 hours
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#127 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.02
It's heartbreaking on the level of a finish of a soccer game, but compounded when you take into account that this was the one remaining African team in a World Cup in Africa.

The most unfortunate way to go out.
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 3 days
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#128 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.74
    Originally posted by The Goon
    It's heartbreaking on the level of a finish of a soccer game, but compounded when you take into account that this was the one remaining African team in a World Cup in Africa.

    The most unfortunate way to go out.


I hate to say it, but it would not shock me to see a headline of "Ghanaian Who Missed World Cup PK Kills Self" in the next month.
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 32 days
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#129 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    I hate to say it, but it would not shock me to see a headline of "Ghanaian Who Missed World Cup PK Kills Self" in the next month.


I'd be less surprised to hear that the Brazilian who got in the way of his netminder on the 'own goal' equalizer, and then was red-carded for an incredibly selfish retaliation turns up murdered. It's something of a South American tradition for World Cup goats.

While not remotely "fair play", I guess you have to give that Uruguayan who batted away the last second header credit - he didn't allow the layup, and made Ghana have to earn it at the charity spot. You never know...



TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#130 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
FIFA announced today that Holland's first goal will (correctly) be attributed to Wesley Sneijder, overturning the original decision of an own goal. I don't think that will make Brazilians feel any better about Felipe Melo's performance.

Also, FIFA is considering a longer suspension for Luis Suarez, the Uruguay player whose intentional handball saved what would have been the winning Ghana goal yesterday. He's already suspended for the semifinal game against Holland because of the red card, but the proposed second game added to the suspension would ban him from either the final or the third-place game. I hope FIFA does it, because I think it really sucks that Uruguay basically benefited from an intentional red card. As Suarez said himself, "the way in which I was sent off -- truth is, it was worth it."



JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#131 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.26
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I hope FIFA does it, because I think it really sucks that Uruguay basically benefited from an intentional red card. As Suarez said himself, "the way in which I was sent off -- truth is, it was worth it."


I disagree. The closest NFL equivalent to this in another sport would be if a DB committed pass interference on a Hail Mary, moving the ball from like the 50 to the 1-yard line, but then the kicker missed the winning 18-yard FG. If THAT happened, even in a Super Bowl, there would be no call for changing the penalty.

What Suarez did...HE wasn't thinking "I just saved the tournament." He was thinking "we were screwed and we're still screwed because PKs nearly always go in." Gyan just had to kick it 1ยบ lower to seal Uruguay's fate, and that he did not is not Suarez' fault.

Now, if FIFA wants to go back and amend this rule for future occurrences of this situation, then all the power to them and I don't know if they should or shouldn't. But there is a rule and they should stick with it.

    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    I hate to say it, but it would not shock me to see a headline of "Ghanaian Who Missed World Cup PK Kills Self" in the next month.


I had just watched "the Two Escobars" the night before. Talk about having an uneasy feeling when that dude missed the PK and they went on to lose.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#132 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      I hope FIFA does it, because I think it really sucks that Uruguay basically benefited from an intentional red card. As Suarez said himself, "the way in which I was sent off -- truth is, it was worth it."


    I disagree. The closest NFL equivalent to this in another sport would be if a DB committed pass interference on a Hail Mary, moving the ball from like the 50 to the 1-yard line, but then the kicker missed the winning 18-yard FG. If THAT happened, even in a Super Bowl, there would be no call for changing the penalty.


Yeah, you're right. I mean, I don't think it's totally comparable because what Suarez did was enough to get immediately booted from the game while pass interference isn't. I think the intentional handball is much more unsportsmanlike than the pass interference penalty would be. But I guess FIFA shouldn't arbitrarily make this guy's suspension longer.

It's possible there's precedent here that I don't know about though.

I'm pretty sure there have been players suspended in the NBA and NFL after nasty fouls were reviewed, even times when the foul wasn't penalized in the game. No examples come to mind though. I think this is comparable to that, it probably just depends how FIFA has handled these situations in the past.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 3.7.10 1209)


Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#133 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.35
It wasn't just an intentional handball. He blocked the winning goal going in with his hands.

I equate this more with someone running unopposed for a TD and someone comes off the bench to tackle him short of the goal line. He was going in, it was going to be a score, but the other team cheated. I felt that it should have been a goal and Ghana should have been awarded the goal. They would award a TD in my example.



-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
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#134 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
    Originally posted by Zeruel
    It wasn't just an intentional handball. He blocked the winning goal going in with his hands.

    I equate this more with someone running unopposed for a TD and someone comes off the bench to tackle him short of the goal line. He was going in, it was going to be a score, but the other team cheated. I felt that it should have been a goal and Ghana should have been awarded the goal. They would award a TD in my example.


Suarez's action was a much less extreme case of cheating. The NFL actually has a rule that would award a touchdown in that bizarre scenario you described.* MLB has a similar rule that awards a run if, say, a batter hits a home run but is kneecapped by the opposing team while rounding second base. Those are totally untoward actions, whereas a handball is an illegal but fairly common part of the game. The pass interference penalty is a much better comparison to the situation.

* = I remember a Steelers/Jaguars game from a few years back when a Jags player was running back a kick for a touchdown. There was this great camera shot of Bill Cowher on the sidelines, so angry that he was visibly tensing up and looking like he was about to pounce onto the field and tackle the Jaguar himself.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 126 days
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#135 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by Zeruel
    It wasn't just an intentional handball. He blocked the winning goal going in with his hands.

    I equate this more with someone running unopposed for a TD and someone comes off the bench to tackle him short of the goal line. He was going in, it was going to be a score, but the other team cheated. I felt that it should have been a goal and Ghana should have been awarded the goal. They would award a TD in my example.

I prefer Zeruel's analogy to the Hail Mary analogy. I was going to compare it to intentionally goaltending in basketball but I like this comparison even more.

With a Hail Mary, the receiver still has to catch the ball. He might not, it's definitely no guarantee. But hand balling an otherwise empty net at the goal line IS changing the outcome. It's basically one player saying he plays by different rules than everyone else and is just going to do whatever he likes to get his way.

An intentional pass interference should be penalized, but an intentional hand ball, at least in this particular scenario, is more than just penalty-worthy, it's downright cheating. Incredibly unsportsmanlike.

- StingArmy
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 day
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#136 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.59
Cheat to win. Well, Germany sent Argentina packing and we don't have to see the Argentina coach run naked in the streets. Maybe talking trash wasn't the best course of action with the Germans. I also agree with Zeruel since the severity of his actions are probably going to get him bounced from the rest of the tournament. Also, Ghana was attacking all over the place when the handball occurred, so the Hail Mary analogy is not appropriate to what really occurred.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3 days
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#137 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
Yeah, the defender handling the ball takes a situation that is 100 percent goal, and by giving the penalty instead it becomes an 85 percent or so (whatever the rate of successful penalties is) chance of a goal, so clearly it is advantageous to get his hand up. I think the ref should have the authority to award a goal in this situation, to take away the benefit.



odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 45 days
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#138 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28

Suarez got DQ'd to save his belt.

Spain/Holland or Germany/Holland would be a cracking final.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
Canard
Cotechino








Since: 25.7.05
From: England

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#139 Posted on
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    Spain/Holland or Germany/Holland would be a cracking final.


I would definately want to see Germany v Holland. Despite what the English papers might tell you, the Dutch and the Germans are Europe's most keenly fought grudge match and it'd be a rematch of the 1974 final.
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#140 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.06
I wouldn't give Suarez any additional suspension. I agree with JayJayDean--if you think the situation was unfair, then *change the rule*. Maybe it's such a specific situation that it's not worth addressing, but I can't really blame Suarez for doing what his team needed. He should of course get the punishment the rules called for, but no more. It's not as though he injured anyone, and it's not as though suspending him further would help compensate Ghana in any way for their loss.

The officiating really took me out of today's Spain/Paraguay game. The panel on TV after the game seemed to think that the offside on Paraguay's apparent goal early on was correct, but it looked like a good goal to me. I was rooting for Spain, and when that happened it just took some of the fun out of it, especially in light of all the other officiating screwups. Then there was the dual penalties: replays clearly showed that there was a heckuva lot more encroachment on the first penalty, where it wasn't called, than on the second, where it was. I don't get that at all. It's really getting to the point where it's hard to enjoy the games because you start to feel like you're not going to get an honest result anyway.
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That was a joke, especially considering that Mike Mularky still thinks the playoffs are a possibility.
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