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The W - Football - World Cup 2010 discussion (Page 6)
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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#101 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
    Originally posted by TheOldMan


    Fair or not, soccer goes back into the American sporting consciousness closet until 2014. I love the Cup games, and will continue to watch, but asking me to watch MLS is sort of like going to a minor league baseball game - the rules are the same, the uniforms look professional.. but there just isn't the skill (or the stakes) there to make it interesting.


Maybe I'm lucky that I have DC United as my local club, because live MLS games are an amazing experience. I usually get seats in the "bouncy" section of RFK. Remember all those old games where the bleachers literally bounced up and down ("WE WANT DALLAS!!!"), yeah, I sit there and the fans are CRAZY.

People beating on drums, blowing horns, chanting, and jumping up and down for the full 90, plus extra time, plus the halftime. La Norte, La Barra Brava, and The Screaming Eagles (I love to sit with the last two as their sections are right next to each other in the mid 130s sections) are the three biggest supporter groups of the club and they always provide an amazing atmosphere, win or lose.

It never feels like a "minor league" game at all. It also probably helps that we won four MLS cups including appearing in the first four MLS cup finals and winning three. They got off to a fast start and it was hard not to be a fan, unless you just hated/didn't get soccer.

Oh, I have to admit that lesser skill of most of the MLS players can be cringe-inducing to watch, but it's not as bad as watching a HS team. Hopefully more and more MLS players will be able to go on loan to a European top flight club to get some valuable experience.

I know money is an issue with MLS, which is why they operate as a single entity, but they might have to allow more Designated Players into clubs. Basically, the DP rule (or David Beckham rule) allows clubs to sign two players that won't count against the salary cap, so they can get more foreign players into the league to up the skill level.

They modified it and about $300k of the salary will be charged to the cap and the league will cover that part. Any excess will be paid by the club. I really think they might have to up that to four. Yeah, it will bring in more aging European and South American players, but if it helps get more fans in the stands, I'm all for it. I wasn't really into soccer as a kid, but my best friend got me into it back in 1994 when we was the World Cup here and I was a fan ever since.

(edited by Zeruel on 27.6.10 0142)


-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 95 days
Last activity: 62 days
#102 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.23

I haven't been to a game at RFK for a year or two. Are crowds still good given how the team has slipped?

I want to try and see a game at new Philly stadium. I often drive by the area where the stadium is in the suburbs, since it's not far from where I stop to get comics.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#103 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    I haven't been to a game at RFK for a year or two. Are crowds still good given how the team has slipped?


I haven't been this year yet, gotta watch the budget, but the last game I went to last year (Sept 9th, losing to Seattle 1-2) the fans were still as crazy as ever.

We were 8-6-12 at that point and I think we had to get five points over the last four games to make the playoffs. We went 1-2-1 to finish the season with 40 pts and lost out on the 8th seed to head to head tiebreaker with Real Salt Lake.



-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#104 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
Photobucket

"If Germany wins, we riot"




Captain Ferret
Chipolata








Since: 14.9.02
From: Manchester

Since last post: 481 days
Last activity: 1 day
#105 Posted on
Well that was embarrassing
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 40 days
Last activity: 40 days
#106 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
While that goal not being allowed was criminal, England cannot blame the loss on that. Germany clearly outplayed England for about 80 minutes of that match. Granted, there's obviously no telling how the game would have played out had it been level at the half rather than a one-goal German advantage, but I think Germany was so clearly the better side today that Lampard's would-be goal is almost an afterthought.

That's at least three goals that should have stood that have not, though in this World Cup, assuming I'm not forgetting any - two for the the U.S. and this one for England. The referees have to do better than that.



StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 41 days
Last activity: 2 days
#107 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
I didn't watch this match but I just watched a clip on ESPN.com that showed the botched call on England's would-be second goal.

Okay, WOW. I'm not sure I've ever seen a bigger botched call in a major sporting event. Definitely not in this World Cup. I'd have to sit down and think about it for a few minutes. I'm sure there might have been a couple of worse calls that involved a bad rule interpretation, but this was just cut and dry. That was so blatantly obviously a goal. Heck of an acting job by the keep because I can't imagine he actually believed it wasn't a goal. That is bewildering at best and conspiracy theory inducing at worst.

That being said, 4-1 is a pretty embarrassing defeat. Having not watched the match I can't say whether losing out on that would-be goal deflated the English side or what, but there would probably be a bigger uproar moving forward if the final score was 2-1 or even 3-1.

- StingArmy
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 40 days
Last activity: 40 days
#108 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
With the offsides goal allowed for Argentina this afternoon, the officiating has gotten even more absurd. There absolutely must be changes made after this World Cup - how can there not be? I know the FIFA president has a reputation for being stubborn and unapproachable on this issue, but how can anyone defend this?



lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#109 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
Even baseball, the most stoic and rigid of all of the sports world has instant replay on some level. I can't take an event like this seriously when you have this many missed big calls, flopping players and overall boredom. And yes, the NBA is fifth in the list of sporting companies I watch.
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#110 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    Okay, WOW. I'm not sure I've ever seen a bigger botched call in a major sporting event.


Photobucket

You spoke too soon. At least the side official in the ENG/GER game was 18 meters off the goal line because he was correctly positioned to watch for offside. This chucklehead missed the call right in front of his nose.

Clearer view of England's disallowed goal:

Photobucket

Did anyone else notice that while there are endless replays of any cross from the in-goal camera throughout these games, there was no such replay of the key missed call for England? Must be nice for an organization to have their own men in the control booth, eh?

Briefly, in no way am I saying that Germany and Argentina are not the better sides.. but the game strategy changes on each goal so much, these 'howler' officiating errors are really frustrating, even to a neutral observer.

Would the young Germans have had doubt if the Three Lions equalized in bang-bang fashion? Would they have had so much counterattacking space on their 3rd and 4th goals if the English weren't pushed forward still trying to tie the match?

And what if the afternoon match stayed level and the Mexicans didn't completely unravel? Might they have found the first goal, and tried to claw out a 1-nil victory?

In both cases, more likely not than so. But the English and Mexican teams, and fans of both nations deserved a fair chance to find out. With the stakes this high, and the games only once every four years, it's a profound embarrassment to FIFA. Or at least it should be.



TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 40 days
Last activity: 40 days
#111 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
Both calls were terrible, but I think Mexico has a much more convincing gripe than does England. There's no telling what would have happened had the goal stood, of course, but England really played poorly, both in the second half and the first 30 minutes of the match. Germany was so clearly better.

Mexico was playing even with Argentina and had threatened a couple of times before that terrible decision devastated them. Mexico went on to score a great goal and threaten several times in the final 20 or so minutes. I would have liked to have seen a replay of the near-goal Mexico didn't score where the ball was cleared off the line, about a minute before Mexico went on to score.

But I'm looking forward to Argentina/Germany. Argentina looks as unstoppable as anyone. Brazil, Argentina, Germany and Holland I think are all looking great right now.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 27.6.10 1623)


Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#112 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
They really need more eyes out there on the pitch. At least two, four would be better, more officials. Could you imagine a NCAA/NFL football game with only three officials? Chaos.

American football uses a seven-official system. Soccer/FIFA needs to do the same. They need two more on the field at either end to assist the head ref because he can't be everywhere and see everything. They need two more across from the ref's assists who look for offsides.

That would be four around the pitch (or five with today's "forth" ref) and three on it. That would cover most of the pitch and cut down on flopping and players acting like they got shot in the chest with a shotgun.





-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#113 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
Argentina vs. Germany in the quarter-finals, holy cow. That could be a virtual final right there were it not for Brazil.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#114 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
I just found this article from May on ESPN.com that says that UEFA will be experimenting with five officials the next two seasons.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=790811&sec=uefachampionsleague&cc=5901



-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
used2bcool
Bockwurst








Since: 5.11.08
From: Lake Forest, IL

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#115 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
    Originally posted by Zeruel
    They really need more eyes out there on the pitch. At least two, four would be better, more officials. Could you imagine a NCAA/NFL football game with only three officials? Chaos.

    American football uses a seven-official system. Soccer/FIFA needs to do the same. They need two more on the field at either end to assist the head ref because he can't be everywhere and see everything. They need two more across from the ref's assists who look for offsides.

    That would be four around the pitch (or five with today's "forth" ref) and three on it. That would cover most of the pitch and cut down on flopping and players acting like they got shot in the chest with a shotgun.




I don't think it's going to help to have more referees, when the referees are as bad as most football refs. I don't think either of yesterday's debacles could've been avoided with more eyes. England's goal bounced about 2 feet inside the line and you could see it from the overhead hard camera with the naked eye in real time. The linesman was in perfect position and didn't see it. Same with Argentina's offside - again the linesman was in good position, and Tevez was MILES offside. It's just incompetence - there is no way to really give the refs the benefit of the doubt. Best way to go is the tennis/cricket referral system - two referrals per team and a TV guy in a tower judging the referrals. Adding more refs might help but doesn't solve the basic problem - the lack of quality in football referees. And I don't buy the "breaking the flow of the game" argument against technology in football - between numerous faked injuries and oversells they waste enough time as it is. Wouldn't hurt to spend a bit more time and get the decisions right.



Forfeit the game, before somebody else takes you outta the game, and puts your name to shame
Cover up your face, you can't run the race
The pace is too fast, you just won't last
- "Points Of Authority" - Linkin Park
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#116 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    Did anyone else notice that while there are endless replays of any cross from the in-goal camera throughout these games, there was no such replay of the key missed call for England? Must be nice for an organization to have their own men in the control booth, eh?

Not sure who provides the pictures you guys get, but we got plenty of replays from the in-goal camera. Only link I can find to it is from the Beeb though, and I'm fairly sure their video content isn't available to non-UK users. Here (news.bbc.co.uk) it is though just in case.

    Originally posted by used2bcool
    Best way to go is the tennis/cricket referral system - two referrals per team and a TV guy in a tower judging the referrals.

Yeah, that's about the only thing I could see working. The "more refs" idea wasn't an unqualified success in the Europa League, and on a couple of occasions it just seemed to add to the confusion because you had another set of eyes seeing things from a different, but not necessarily better angle than the ref. The only issue I'd have is that many decisions aren't so clear cut as yesterday's. You could go the NFL-route of "irrefutable evidence" to overturn the call on the field, but in a lot of cases they'd just end up having to stick with the original call and folks would still be pissed.

I really don't feel strongly one way or t'other about video replays. Arguing about refereeing decisions has always been a part of football, referees aren't making any more mistakes than they ever have (just that their mistakes are now more visible) and bad calls tend to even themselves out over the long run. Germany would no doubt argue yesterday was just karma finally catching up after '66.

On the other hand, I'm in an ever shrinking minority as far as that goes, and if it's what the people want then let 'em have it, because it could be easily implemented without slowing things down too much.
Doc_whiskey
Frankfurter








Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 50 days
AIM:  
#117 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
Why don't they just have goal judges like hockey does? Or take the hockey route for goals and have play continue, but buzz down if it should be changed.



Lisa: Poor predicatble Bart, always picks rock
Bart: Good ole rock, nothing beats that
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#118 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
    Why don't they just have goal judges like hockey does? Or take the hockey route for goals and have play continue, but buzz down if it should be changed.

Because FIFA take the view that such things would have to be implemented across all levels of football which they govern, and given that the goal judges would only be needed in a very small number of cases it would be an unwelcome expense for the smaller leagues.

Of course that leads to the obvious "Why does it need to be the same across all of football, why don't they just have it for the World Cup?".

I don't know what their official answer is to that, but I guess it's something along the lines of "because it's always been like that". Or possibly "just because".


TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#119 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
Well, a bit disappointing that Spain/Portugal wasn't more wide open, but we're getting down to it now, and the power teams are showing their class.

Quarterfinal Brackets:

Photobucket

(That was definitely the golden path to the semis the #14-ranked US left a-begging.)

So you've got two tasty-looking matchups to come in the next round, and congrats to South America for landing half of the last 8 teams. Right now, I just have a feeling that Argentina has that certain undefinable X-factor going for it.



odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 95 days
Last activity: 62 days
#120 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24

today's big (literally) news related to today's winning teams:

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/06/29/larissa-riquelme-will-run-naked-through-the-streets-if-paraguay-wins-the-wold-cup/



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
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