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The W - Pro Wrestling - Women's division gone?
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DMC
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Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3509 days
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#1 Posted on
Although I have to admit after last night that Trish and Molly are pulling off some damn exciting stuff in the ring, does anyone else feel that the major push the women were getting in the first half of the year is basically gone now? We are seeing a lot more mixed-tags and a lot less attention on the women. (And now we're apparently seeing the old bats like Mae come back out in all their weirdness.) Sure, Jazz and Lita are still out, and Jackie and Linda did not produce more, but couldn't they be doing more with the roster of women right now? After all, it was one of the more exciting things going for the WWE for awhile and fans (at least many here) were getting really into it.

Is there any chance Victoria or even Torrie Wilson will get more time, or is Victoria not ready yet to enter the main competition? (Why was that womens tag match from Velocity last week not televised?)

DMC



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Since: 20.6.02
From: Florida

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#2 Posted on
Assuming you're still going to see your favorite female wrestlers on a consistent basis, do you really care whether they pay attention to the Women's Title? They barely pay enough attention to the men's titles as it is. I think the last few shows demonstrate that it's just not necessary.



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DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3509 days
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#3 Posted on
Yes I actually do care. The mixed tag matches, while fun to watch, do not add any credibility to the title. I hope they do something else next week. Or, like Bischoff's Nitro, are the women not going to get those more serious roles now?

DMC



"And win, lose, or draw, trust me. I'm gonna respect myself in the morning, and you're gonna respect me." -Arn Anderson
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Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 4034 days
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#4 Posted on
What "division"? There's Trish, and there's Molly. And how many times are we gonna see that same matchup?
Jakegnosis
Morcilla








Since: 26.7.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 2895 days
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#5 Posted on
Personally, I think that the women's division is pretty useless except as a novelty. People think Trish and Molly are pretty good, but that's only because the other women wrestlers are just terrible. Lita is the only one I can get behind, and she's injured. The female wrestlers just don't have the skills that most of the men do (OK, they're better than Hogan and Mark Henry), and IMHO, when a women's title match comes on, I usually groan and wonder why we can't see something that's actually good. It's nice to see them around, but it really irritates me to have to watch Molly vs. Trish XXXVIII when I could be watching a cruiser match.



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Since: 22.6.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 3829 days
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#6 Posted on
I agree that there just isn't enough good women's wrestlers to give the women's division a serious push. I mean that mixed tag match with with Trish and Jackie Gayda had to set back the women's division. I also don't think the WWE audience really wants a women's division, they rarely get into a women's wrestling match that isn't a T&A style match.

(edited by hayabusa on 30.7.02 2344)


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Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3523 days
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#7 Posted on
What ever happened to Victoira? After reading the reviews of her Heat match, I thought I would be seeing more of her.

And my biggest gripe with the women's division- Buh Buh Dudley's ridiculous dance rountines with Molly two weeks in a row. Is anyone actually enjoying that? Either smack her or tag out, that's my philosophy.
J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#8 Posted on
http://jkyle.com says:



My question is, if Victoria wrestled on Heat, how could she have been in a Velocity match (even one that was cut)? A dark SD match sure, but surely they have more sense than to have her jump for no explanation after having her show up again with no explanation.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4418 days
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#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    Personally, I think that the women's division is pretty useless except as a novelty. People think Trish and Molly are pretty good, but that's only because the other women wrestlers are just terrible. Lita is the only one I can get behind, and she's injured. The female wrestlers just don't have the skills that most of the men do (OK, they're better than Hogan and Mark Henry), and IMHO, when a women's title match comes on, I usually groan and wonder why we can't see something that's actually good. It's nice to see them around, but it really irritates me to have to watch Molly vs. Trish XXXVIII when I could be watching a cruiser match.


Whoa, whoa, you say Trish and Molly are good because the other women are terrible and yet then you say Lita is the only one you can get behind? Lita's awful. She's a 2 move wonder. Trish and Molly can actually put matches together. Their King of the Ring match was good, period. Not good compared to other women's matches, just flat-out good. Plus, watching Molly-Trish XXXVIII has nothing to do with watching cruiserweights, they're on different shows. They do need more women though. Molly only seems to rotate between Trish and the occasional Torrie match. That'll change when Jazz returns and they finally start using Victoria.

Here's a question: why have they not signed Taylor? If she's good enough to be in Japan, she's good enough for WWE and the fans already know her.



"BobHollySTILLRules STILL rules!" -SmooveK, finally letting the world know what a select few have known all along. That I do, indeed, rule.

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Since: 27.6.02
From: Fukushima, Japan

Since last post: 3788 days
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#10 Posted on
If you were going to add another belt (WHICH YOU SHOULDN'T), it could be said that it should be added to the women's division. The "Golden Thong" title could be available (as a belt, not a trophy) for non-wrestlers to fight over in Jello matches or something like that. Then, the Women's title is given respect by it NOT being defended in gravy bowl matches or being held by Debra or the Kat.

Plus, the "Golden Thong" title could be made into an ultra-stylish belt that the women would want to catfight over. Or bracelet, or bra strap...

NOTE TO WWE: If this happens, I have a record, and I expect residuals.

-K



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Since: 27.2.02
From: Tuscaloosa, AL, USA

Since last post: 4501 days
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#11 Posted on
You can look back all the way to Tough Enough 1. Vince could have chosen Taylor instead of Nidia. But Vince wanted an entertainer/valet instead of a female wrestler. So while Nidia is swapping spit with Jamie Noble, Taylor is wrestling (and training) in Japan for ARSION.

There's little hope that Jackie Gayda can wrestle any time soon. They should have always TE winners on Smackdown. It's taped and if their match sucked, you can edit it to make it look better. Linda, still has a chance to become a good wrestler.

The last two female pickup were Dawn Marie and Kim Neilson, a wrestler out of Dusty Rhodes' Turnbuckle promotion. Dawn Marie was kept as eye candy and Neilson was cut. Face it the women's division is dead. It's either Molly or Jazz (when she comes back) vs Trish. Add in a typical T&A match with Torrie Samuda, Legs, or Terri and that's all the women's division is.



CRZ is Poohbear!
deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

Since last post: 4405 days
Last activity: 4405 days
#12 Posted on
What hurt the division is Stacey's lack of progress. She is the most over woman in wrestling today, but she developed the fewest skills of the women who came from the WCW Power Plant. She is relegated to bra and panty matches. After the Jackie debacle, there is no way they can put Stacey over in a real match.

But what virtually killed it is the "fat ass" angle. It was a huge blow to Molly's sense of dignity, and it made Trish look like an out and out liar (only pro-Trish spazzers like Jerry Lawler would ever think that Molly's butt is big). Also, Molly can't cut her usually good promos and be put over because the stupid announcers would make butt jokes while she speaks. For these reasons, I think the "fat ass" angle is one of the worst angles ever, if not THE worst.





(edited by deadbeater on 31.7.02 0056)

"Business has just picked up" says JR. Then right on cue, Molly enters the arena! Never was JR any better in introducing someone. --Raw 7/15
BobHollySTILLRules
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Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4418 days
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#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by deadbeater
    What hurt the division is Stacey's lack of progress. She is the most over woman in wrestling today, but she developed the fewest skills of the women who came from the WCW Power Plant. She is relegated to bra and panty matches. After the Jackie debacle, there is no way they can put Stacey over in a real match.

    But what virtually killed it is the "fat ass" angle. It was a huge blow to Molly's sense of dignity, and it made Trish look like an out and out liar (only pro-Trish spazzers like Jerry Lawler would ever think that Molly's butt is big). Also, Molly can't cut her usually good promos and be put over because the stupid announcers would make butt jokes jokes while she speaks. For these reasons, I think the "fat ass" angle is one of the worst angles ever, if not THE worst.



    (edited by deadbeater on 31.7.02 0055)



Oh come on! You act like Molly was over before this angle. Newsflash, she wasn't. I mean, I like her too, but this angle didn't do a damn thing to hurt her and, need I remind you, she got the Women's Title because of it. Both girls are just as over as they were before the angle started, so it can hardly be one of the worst ever. You're blowing it way out of proportion.



"BobHollySTILLRules STILL rules!" -SmooveK, finally letting the world know what a select few have known all along. That I do, indeed, rule.

Bengals, Playoffs, 2002.

DON'T BELIEVE IT!

*I* want to be the right one!
deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

Since last post: 4405 days
Last activity: 4405 days
#14 Posted on
The idea that this would be the way to get Molly over was a reflection on the nadir of WWE writng before the GM angle. They had a lot of potentially good storylines to tell loosely based on the wrestler's personas--and they choose something's that is not only totally non-existent, but visually false. The fans saw through that, the smarks really hate it, and it ultimately benefitted no one. My problem is not as much Molly hurting by it, but the effect it had on Trish's popularity. She got caught telling an outright lie about another person's body, and she was supposed to be face. And the jokes were not funny, no matter how much Jerry laughs about it. There were much better potential storylines: Molly's claim that all Trish did was sleep her way to the top and Molly's hypocrisy about being "pure and wholesome", but it is not even being close to being emphasized.

Then couple it with the infamous Jackie match, and how poorly Trish carried Jackie.



(edited by deadbeater on 31.7.02 0446)

"Business has just picked up" says JR. Then right on cue, Molly enters the arena! Never was JR any better in introducing someone. --Raw 7/15
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 36 min.
#15 Posted on
Fellas, I think an obvious point is being missed here. And that is simply that the women’s title CAN’T mean anything. Think about when it we re-introduced. I believe that was in 1998. They brought it back so Sable would have something to do other than feuding with Marc Mero and having him sell for her Sable-Bomb (which effectively ended his career). Once Sable is your division workhorse, you can forget about a credible title. They gave it to Luna who, to date, has yet to have a good match. Just because she’s ugly and therefore isn’t there as eye candy doesn’t mean she’s a good wrestler. Jackie, and I mean Jacqueline, not that hottub slut from tough enough, was also brought in so she could job to Sable. After Sable, I don’t even know who held it, but I recall that it disappeared from TV for huge periods of time, and eventually ended up on Stephanie. I love Steph…(‘Cause I want to feed a stiff one from the bee-hind) but that ends title credibility. I also believe it was for some time on Debra and the Kat as well, both non-wrestlers. Nowadays, every woman who takes any kind of bumps in the WWE has held it. Trish has had it, Molly has had it, Lita has had it, and Jazz has had it. None of the others can wrestle, and Vince is obviously a misogynist, which doesn’t help things. When you have two active wrestlers your choice for Champion is either woman with a “big ass” who doesn’t have a big ass, or a woman who got down and barked like a dog so Vince could beat off in his makeshift office between production meetings. I don’t think, given these choices, this division has many shots at a credible champion. Even if Lita comes back, who cares? She’s over because of that thong, she can’t wrestle. Would any man be over with two basic moves like a moonsault and hurricanrana and no microphone skills? Hell no, but Lita’s doable so boom, a phenomenon is born. Jazz was the only one with a prayer…But fans aren’t conditioned to accept women who don’t look like pin-ups. What title on earth could recover from a history as butchered as this one? Only the WCW World strap even comes close in misuse and embarrassment.
If anyone in WWE was serious about a women’s division they’d be going to Japan and harvesting some of the women over there, who easily work as hard as the men do and do most of the moves the men do. But not a single female I just listed would be able to take that kind of offence. If some Japanese workrate girls came in and did their stuff to the current crop, Trish would crack in half…I don’t care how tough she thinks she is for working with a hand boo-boo. And bringing them in would entail totally re-defining how women have been portrayed on WWE television since…Well, since the days of Miss Elizabeth. Somehow, bookers would have to get the fans to stop seeing these women as sex objects. And that would take years to undo. If you need proof of the women’s perception, all you need to do is go back to when Trish went and said how she ‘worked to get the title, these people saw me work’ and got a degradingly modest pop, as if to say: “Yeah, we saw you work. But that’s not what we were looking at.”
And it’s a shame…Because viable women’s division CAN exist in North America today. Sigh. If only Rockin’ Robin were still alive…





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Since: 2.1.02

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#16 Posted on
Spoiler: Molly defeats Torrie Wilson on Velocity this week.



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Since: 27.6.02

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#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    My question is, if Victoria wrestled on Heat, how could she have been in a Velocity match (even one that was cut)? A dark SD match sure, but surely they have more sense than to have her jump for no explanation after having her show up again with no explanation.


The Tough Enough 2 girls jumped with no explanation.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3067 days
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#18 Posted on
The WWE women's division is just like the WWE lightweight division. It will pop up at intervals, get TV time for a little while, then go back into hibernation. Sometimes those hibernation periods can be very long indeed.

Right now, the women's division is a two-person division, Trish and Molly. That's why they keep facing each other with and without partners, and now that that rivalry's being played out, they have no one to step up and keep the division fresh. Who can come in and actually _wrestle_ credibly (which is why many were excited about this year's women's division in the first place)?

Lita and Jazz are hurt. Jacqueline and Ivory are doing other things. Stacy, Torrie, and (ESPECIALLY) Terri should stay the hell out of the ring at all costs. Dawn Marie is eye candy, and I don't know if she's improved any since her ECW wrestling debut. Nidia is in valet mode. Jackie Gayda and Linda Miles won't be on TV again any time soon. And 98% of the WWE audience will respond to Victoria with "...who?"

Trish will stick around on TV, because she's marketable. Stacy and Torrie will stick around on TV, because they have legs and breasts. Molly will stick around because they need _someone_ to be a foil for Trish. But it wouldn't shock me to see Trish and/or Molly revert to interfering-and-bump-taking valet mode before long, to give them something to do...



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Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Since they started making a serious commitment to the division a few months ago we have been treated to some good matches and decent storylines (the fat ass storyline was an exception.) Now they want us to view the division on the same level as the mid-card hoping that Regal and Bubba Ray give them a bit of a rub. Molly can very easily get a heel rub from Regal as their characters have similar personalities and Bubba Ray gives a cool/hip rub to Trish with the wassup and table spots that have been crowd favorites for a while. The women will never be on the level of main eventers but they can be on the level of the mid card.



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Since: 27.6.02
From: Fukushima, Japan

Since last post: 3788 days
Last activity: 3477 days
#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by deadbeater
    But what virtually killed it is the "fat ass" angle. It was a huge blow to Molly's sense of dignity, and it made Trish look like an out and out liar (only pro-Trish spazzers like Jerry Lawler would ever think that Molly's butt is big).



Maybe they're catering to SirMixALot. His crew might have been clamoring for this behind the scenes, and Vince was just listening to his fans.

-K



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