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The W - Pro Wrestling - Why Is Paul Roma on My TV Set?
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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#1 Posted on
Nice job giving the Horsemen two segments on Confidential. Always good to see the Rev. Blanchard; and Arn being allowed to talk on TV this much makes one wonder why the hell they don't have him managing someone coughBenoitcough. Extremely unusual that they bring in Tully to talk, have Arn talk about the Horsemen, but nothing from Flair. Have to wonder what Tully was talking about at one point (he said '88, but I believe it was '87), when he mentioned the Orange Bowl being filled for a cage match coughWarGamescough involving the Horsemen. That of course could not be possible, as Hulk Hogan was not on the card, and as we all know no one ever attended a wrestling card in the 80's that didn't involve Hogan. Oh wait, I forgot, Hogan is a born liar. Even in clipped forms, Horsemen beat downs are fun to watch. Nice to see how they intertwined Tully and Arn talking about how different forms of the Horsemen would be manufactured when WCW was in trouble, and mysteriously a clip of Paul Roma was displayed. I do disagree about the '86 version being the best version of the Horsemen though, as Ole was injured for much of '86, and the Luger version of '87 was when Tully and Arn formed the tag team partnership, and the '88 nirvana version of the Horsemen with Windham achieved the Horsemen ultimate goal of 4 Horsemen/4 Titles.
The next big thing Confidential should give us: The Midnight Express.



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Since: 25.2.02

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#2 Posted on
That just baffled me. Not one Flair interview segment. What's up with that?



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by Mr Heel II
    That just baffled me. Not one Flair interview segment. What's up with that?








Especially since Flair has appeared on the program before. Is it coincidental that he didn't appear after someone stated that Confidential hurts his heel character?
Also, while very good, it would have been beneficial to get reactions of others in the business about the Horsemen. They used David Crockett a few weeks ago for the plane crash, why not about the Horsemen. Cornette was in the NWA at the time, why not his opinion? Then again, anytime you see the Horsemen beat down people under the Kenyan flags in front of the crowd of 30 people (who were generally louder than a WWF/E crowd) in the old pre Center Stage TV studio, its a good time.



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Since: 26.8.02

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#4 Posted on
Benoit needs to start using the Slingshot Suplex as a setup for the swandive headbutt. (Granted, he shouldn't be doing the swandive, but since the slingshot wouldn't work as a finisher anymore, it needs to at least signify something big.)
fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#5 Posted on
I'd love to hear Flair, Arn and Benoit talk about the brief but very entertaining Brian Pillman period as the Rogue Horseman. That was the last time the Horsemen were really interesting. There were a few weeks there when Flair returned to the one with Benoit and Malenko that it was good but that never really went anywhere except some awesome tag team wrestling by Benoit and Malenko.
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Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

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#6 Posted on
Roma gets a bad rap because he was an unworthy Horseman, but he wasn't all bad. I mean, yeah, he was a crappy boxer,a nd didn't he get picked up for something really nasty a few years ago? Not as bad as child molesting, but bad?

Okay, so he wasn't that good. But...

The PowerPlex owned. You have to give him that.

(God, my 200th post is defending Paul Roma. Kyrie Eleison.



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Since: 6.1.02
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#7 Posted on
Of course Roma wasn't that good as a Horseman, after being teamed up with the great Jim Powers (Yessss!) as the Young Stallions anything else would be a step down.





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Since: 4.1.02
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54

    The PowerPlex owned. You have to give him that.


Damn straight. One of the best tag team finishers ever.




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Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

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#9 Posted on
I loved the Horsemen segments on Confidential. But why couldn't the program draw coherent links as to HOW the Four Horsemen influenced the nWo and dX? And what about some more classic promo footage? Flair and Tully came off as complete pompous asses in that old promo footage. That was so damn ccool!

I totally agree with redsoxnation about including others' opinions on the impact that Flair and company made. Could you imagine if they would have interviewed some of the Horsemen's adversaries, like the Rock n' Roll Express and Dusty Rhodes? They could have gone back to David Crockett to provide more background, or heck, why not get an interview from Magnum TA too?

WWE could, and should, do a whole DVD dedicated to the Horsemen, including great matches, interviews from all the members they could find, a chronology, complete with WWE style vignettes, and even do some kayfabing too. I'd have a hoot if we could see interviews done where everyone involved would be in character discussing how the Horsemen were either so great, or that they were the scourge and envy of the NWA, who were no good SOBs who still deserve their reckoning. It'd be a lot of fun!

Kudos to WWE for having their first edition of Confidential of the new year focus on what was such an integral part of the history of wrestling that was not created by WWE/F itself.

Please give all of us fans more! Fans who know and learn about the past allow them to become bigger fans of the mat game, period.

Methinks it ought to be time that Confidential cover the few interpromotional battles that happened, i.e. Backlund vs. Flair, WWF vs. NWA Champion from 1982, and Harley Race vs. Superstar Graham, same situation, from the late 1970s. That would be some great stuff.



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Since: 19.3.02
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#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by DJ Ran
    Roma gets a bad rap because he was an unworthy Horseman, but he wasn't all bad. I mean, yeah, he was a crappy boxer,a nd didn't he get picked up for something really nasty a few years ago? Not as bad as child molesting, but bad?



The only rthing I could find about Roma's arrest was this, from a Usenet-based newsletter, so take it for what it is worth, namely the proverbial grain of salt.

"Paul Roma got arrested last weekend when he got into a argument with a
15-year old kid. Reports say Roma bodyslammed the kid."

Click Here

I'll confess I was more disturbed to see Mongo's presence in any form.





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Since: 2.1.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

And as much as I loved the original Horsemen, I still think the best group was Flair, Tully, Arn and BW.




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Since: 2.1.02

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#12 Posted on
I liked the Horsemen piece on Confidential. Probably the best Confidential segment in a long time. It would've been better, though if they interviewed Flair.



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Since: 18.11.02
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#13 Posted on
After Confidential ended, I said to myself "Self, that wasn't a bad episode, but what was up with the Horsemen segments? Not that they were bad either, it's just that they could have done so much more!" I was wondering about the lack of Flair input (was he busy the day they shot this?), as well as the lack of commentary from people who got their asses kicked by the Horsemen, and the lack of any comments about how the Horsemen influenced future stables, other than a passing one by Mean Gene.

Here was something wacky I noticed: During Flair's promo about the huge house he lived in, they showed a quick clip of Vince Russo and David Flair walking up to said house from the WCW Russo vs. Flair feud from a couple of years ago, when David allied himself with Russo. Ok, maybe it's not all that interesting, but it's true that I noticed it.

(edited by Dagent913 on 12.1.03 1300)

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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

I spent most of the morning trying to make a list of clips I wish they would have included.

Did anyone else notice that many of the clips were "pre-Horsemen" clips? The clip of Ole and Arn coming to the ring otuside was, I believe, from the 1985 Great American Bash show in Charlotte, where they fought Dick Slater and Buzz Sawyer (the same show as Flair/Nikita).



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by odessasteps

    I spent most of the morning trying to make a list of clips I wish they would have included.

    Did anyone else notice that many of the clips were "pre-Horsemen" clips? The clip of Ole and Arn coming to the ring otuside was, I believe, from the 1985 Great American Bash show in Charlotte, where they fought Dick Slater and Buzz Sawyer (the same show as Flair/Nikita).





I thought I was having an halucination during that clip, as it seemed that the fans filled the whole stadium, which considering it was a 1985 show without Hogan, could not possibly have occurred according the official WWF/E propaganda whereby all other wrestling occurred in the dark seedy bars.
Also, the clips of Tully with Baby Doll were definately 1985 pre-Horsemen, as Baby Doll split with Tully before the Horsemen were created, and she was with Flair after she turned on Dusty in '86.
If they were going to throw a pre-Horsemen clip, the breaking Dusty's angle clip had to be the one to use.
Also, its scary to see even a brief clip of Luger from '87 and wonder what might have been.
They were jumping around alot in the clips, as they would go to a Chris Cruise '90 clip to a pre Horsemen clip to Flair for the Gold in '93 back to the mid 80's.
Also, I counted Zero clips of Sid, Windham, Woman, Dark Journey (that goes deep into Horsemen minutia) and Pillman. Yet, a picture with Mongo is shown, and they had to remind us of Roma.



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Since: 2.1.02
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
I think another of the Ole and Arn clips was from Starrcade 85, when they wrestled against Wahoo and Billy Jack.

And wouldn't that Wargames match Tully was talking about have had either BW or Luger in the Horsemen, after they kicked Ole out?

Edit: I went and did a google search. It from the 1997 Bash stop in Miami:
WarGames: The Road Warriors (Hawk and Animal), Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, and Paul Ellering defeated The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Lex Luger, and Tully Blanchard) and The War Machine (Bubba Rogers) in a "wargames" match when Machine submitted.

(edited by odessasteps on 12.1.03 1714)


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Since: 19.3.02
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#17 Posted on
Wasn't Barry in one or two of the studio clips getting a Horseman beatdown? You never saw the face, but with those boots, it was either him or Magnum T.A.





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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

It could be a number of people, since lots of people wore the "dusty style" cowboy wrestling boots (Dusty, Barry, Kendall, Sam Houston,...).

And when did the ten pounds of gold get replaced with the shiny big gold belt? Was it before or after Flair went to the WWF?



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Since: 23.10.02
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#19 Posted on

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    the clips of Tully with Baby Doll were definately 1985 pre-Horsemen, as Baby Doll split with Tully before the Horsemen were created


Actually, Baby Doll was still with Tully at the very beginning of the Four Horsemen. The Horsemen were formed at the very beginning of Tully's feud with Magnum TA for the U.S. Championship. Flair and the Anderson joined up before that during Flair's mini feud with Magnum and then the infamous beatdown of Dusty when they locked him inside a cage IMMEDIATELY AFTER Dusty saved Flair from a beating at the hands of Ivan and Nikita Koloff. The Four Horsemen were already formed by StarrCade '85 when Baby Doll was outside the cage during the famous Magnum vs. Tully "I Quit" match.


    Originally posted by odessasteps
    And when did the ten pounds of gold get replaced with the shiny big gold belt? Was it before or after Flair went to the WWF?


It was definitely long before Flair went to the WWF. I don't know the exact time frame of the introduction of that belt but, I think it was the summer of '86 right after Flair won the belt back from Dusty shortly after Dusty won it at the end of the Great American Bash '86 tour when Flair was defending his title against a different guy on every stop of the tour. I'm pretty sure Flair had the big gold belt at his title defense against Nikita Koloff at StarrCade '86 (Thanksgiving night) and I am certain that he had that big gold belt when Ron Garvin beat Flair for the title in September of '87.


As for the Confedential piece, I liked it but, I wish they had concentrated more on what the Horsemen did at the wrestling events instead of their nightclub escapades after they left the arenas. Where was the famous "crucifix" beatdown of Dusty Rhodes with a baseball bat in the parking lot? Where was the lockerroom beatdown of the Rock & Roll Express when Flair created a giant blood smear on the concrete floor by rubbing Ricky Morton's face on the floor while Arn held Morton's feet in the air? Where was the Ronnie Garvin beatdown on the TBS Saturday night show when they broke Garvin's "Hand of Stone" by wrapping his hand around the steel post and beating it with JJ Dillon's shoes? Where was the classic matches and feuds (Tully vs. Magnum, Flair vs. Morton, Arn & Tully vs. Rock & Roll Express, The Four Horsemen vs. The Road Warriors, Dusty Rhodes, and Nikita Koloff, Flair vs. Sting, etc.) I realize they don't have the time to show everything in its entirety but, give us the clips of the classic stuff, especially the Horsemen specialty beatdowns.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

Here's the other thing that bothers me about the Confidential piece.

Both Arn and Tully seem to go out of their way to say "the original horsemen were the best" and when the company was desperate, they would bring back the Horsemen.

Which seems to be what Vince is going to do.

Maybe that's why Flair wasn't part of the piece, he's going to be bringing back the Horsemen "without AA's approval." We all remember how resistant Arn was to reforming the Horsemen before and THAT led to the greatest moment in Nitro history in Greenville, SC.




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"What about "Flowers for Algernon"?"
"Well, that's not about flowers. And it's not a movie."
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That, and all those short reigns involving two guys who are feuding and end up winning the tag belts as a way to advance the feud, and lose the belts a week or two later.
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