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The W - Basketball - Why do YOU hate the Lakers?? (Page 3)
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The Masked Hungarian
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Staten Island NY USA

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#41 Posted on
My point is this. Is phil jackson a good coach? yes, he has won 8 titles so that says something. Is he one of the greatest coaches of all time? No. Plain and simple. He has done nothing to prove otherwise. Can you even name a player whom HE, not jordan has made better?? Great coaches turn John Starks grocery kid into John Starks all star. This argument also applies to Joe "under 500 for my entire managing career UNTIL the yankees" Torre
ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#42 Posted on

    posted by Bucsfan
    Also, again nobody is saying coaching is unnecessary. However, do you think had Jackson been the coach of the LAkers team in, say, 1995 he would have won three straight titles then like he did when he inherited a team with Shaq and Kobe on the roster?


Maybe it takes players AND coaches to win a championship. Until I see a team with bad players win, I'll believe you need good players and a good coach to win. I'm not sure you can penalize Jackson because he wins championships with good players, because really that is the only way you can win championships. And I think that's the goal, win championships.


    The Masked Hungarian
    My point is this. Is phil jackson a good coach? yes, he has won 8 titles so that says something. Is he one of the greatest coaches of all time? No. Plain and simple. He has done nothing to prove otherwise. Can you even name a player whom HE, not jordan has made better?? Great coaches turn John Starks grocery kid into John Starks all star. This argument also applies to Joe "under 500 for my entire managing career UNTIL the yankees" Torre


One player........here's one: Michael Jordan. Before Phil, he was a scoring machine, but he wasn't much of a team player, and the teams he was on weren't very good. Jordan didn't make anyone better. But at some point, that changed. Maybe Michael decided on his own. But there is no evidence that Phil didn't have influence as well. Jordan has always had deep respect for Phil Jackson.

I also saw game 7 of the Sacramento series, and saw Phil Jackson light a fire under Shaq's ass. For that game, Shaq got better after a talk from Phil. I'm not sure in this day and age that most coaches would have the balls to talk to Shaq that way. Most stars can do whatever they want. The fact that Shaq allows Phil to get into his face must say something about the respect he has for him.

Is Phil Jackson a great coach of all time? That's so hard to say about anyone, there is no real way to do a apples-to-apples comparison to other coaches. But as long as the man keeps coaching teams to championships, he is doing nothing to prove that he's not one of the greatest coaches of all time.

(edited by ges7184 on 6.6.02 0937)
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Maybe it takes players AND coaches to win a championship. Until I see a team with bad players win, I'll believe you need good players and a good coach to win. I'm not sure you can penalize Jackson because he wins championships with good players, because really that is the only way you can win championships. And I think that's the goal, win championships.


I would just like to see Jackson stay with a bad team and see how long it takes him to rebuild it. Say he had stayed with the Bulls after Jordan retired the second time. Would they still be the joke they are now or would Jackson's "great coaching" have rebuilt the franchise by now?



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Landjager








Since: 2.1.02

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#44 Posted on
I don't think he was welcome to stay at that point. The Bulls were being torn down and (in theory) built back up without any of the championship components intentionally.

I really do think there are two kinds of good, successful coaches - those who like to teach younger players and build them into a team and those who prefer to take underachievers or pieces and make them into champions. They're definitely different styles and approaches.

Larry Brown seems to like being a teacher, putting teams together and teaching aspects of the game, then moving on. Phil Jackson seems to enjoy the challenge of taking the unmotivated and giving them a drive and focus to make them champions. Brown's style seems to involve teaching the basics (especially with a focus on defense) and showing players the ropes while Jackson's seems to be creating goals for certain players and deflecting media and internal heat away from the ones who don't handle it well.

Both seem pretty valid and both have been successful if you look at them in those senses. And both leave questions - can Brown actually take the teams he builds to the end, or does he have to leave at a certain point? Could Jackson develop the teams and talent from the ground up? I don't know. I think there really are two kinds of coaching styles for a professional team and pro athletes today, and both have varying levels of success. There are plenty of guys in the Brown role who fail. And I think George Karl seems like the kind of guy who's trying to pull off the Phil Jackson style and not doing so hot with it.
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A dunk on Shaq is still worth only 2 points, correct? Then, even if Kobe does dunk on him, that would mean Miami would beat the Lakers by 22 instead of by 24.
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