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The W - Current Events & Politics - Why are people voting Howard Dean?
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CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I have not heard Howard Dean say one thing that sounds positive for our nation. I mean what really makes him(Deano) look bad is that he can not make up his mind. He says one thing and changes him his mind the next. Talk about Spin! Do we really need this dork as our Prez? The only thing I have gotten out of Dean is that he is a left-wing Hollywood, sushi eating, body piercing, tanning salon, tax increasing liberal. Yes I do watch the Fox network but I have gotten the same results watching CNN too. Is Iowa that lame of a state to elect him in the primary or whatever their election is called?

If I were a Demo I would put all my cards on Clark or Gephardt just to blow Dean out the water not to mention Bush will kick Deano's Butt.

Has Deano done anything worthwhile?

Looks like Bush will win!
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Nag
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Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.53
Dean looks presidential, very well dressed, very well kept, overall an extremely professional looking man. Gephardt, now he looks like the captain of a bowling team; Kerry looks like a 70's gameshow host; Dennis The Boy Mayor looks like a nerd. Dean has got "IT"! Therefore, he is the best choice.
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.56
You say he comes across as a liberal. Maybe I'm being dense, but maybe the people who would vote for him are, erm, liberals?



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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
    Originally posted by A-MOL
    You say he comes across as a liberal. Maybe I'm being dense, but maybe the people who would vote for him are, erm, liberals?


Not to sound like a smart ass, but as of right now nobody has yet to vote for Dean.



Perception is reality
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

Since last post: 1096 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by Nag
    Dean looks presidential, very well dressed, very well kept, overall an extremely professional looking man. Gephardt, now he looks like the captain of a bowling team; Kerry looks like a 70's gameshow host; Dennis The Boy Mayor looks like a nerd. Dean has got "IT"! Therefore, he is the best choice.


Boy you have not Seen what the Deano's staff and followers dress like these days.
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Ever notice that the closer we get to actually having people vote, the more support for Dean falls?



drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.94
YOUR Out-Of-Context Quote of Whenever (thanks, MoeGates!): "I wish MY countrymen weren't so uptight about stuff like outdoor marajuana use and casual man-on-man anal love."
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Ever notice that the closer we get to actually having people vote, the more support for Dean falls?


It's not like they're fawning over Bush, either.

I'm only voting for Dean if he gets the nomination. If it's someone like Lieberman, I'm looking at who the Libertarians have on the ballot. Or maybe Nader again.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Dean was the first candidate who was out there showing actual _anger_ towards the Bush administration's activities and active opposition to the invasion of Iraq.

At the same time, many of Dean's primary opponents were rubberstamping Bush's road to said invasion. Therefore, anti-war and anti-Bush Democrats had an obvious "outsider" candidate to flock to.

Dean's campaign machine has been relentless, using the Internet very efficiently to get its word out, organize meet-ups and solicit donations. This grass-roots approach stunned many of Dean's rivals with its success rate, as Dean's fundraising has blown away the Democratic competition, with a big chunk coming from small donations and first-time donors.

With the primaries approaching, it's pretty much a two-man race right now -- Dean vs. Clark. The rest of the cast of characters are pretty much going through the motions, taking potshots at the frontrunner (Dean) in an attempt to remain relevant. With support for Kerry, Lieberman, Gephardt and Edwards dwindling, those voters have to go somewhere, and many are drifting towards Clark (another "outsider," viewed by many to be more "electable" than Dean) as an alternative.

Should be an interesting primary season...







"As far as my lack of professional courtesy and my obvious immature humor in referring to using your head as a pickle jar, well, I reserve my courtesy for those whom I respect. Your lack of personal integrity has given me much grief, and I find that thinking of your hollowed-out head sitting on top of my fridge and providing a safe haven for pickles is a comforting thought."
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PoorlyToldJoke
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Since: 15.12.03
From: Cincinnati

Since last post: 3559 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.01
Calling Dean a liberal has been a fantastic ploy by the right wing media at this point. The guy isn't anywhere near a liberal. He's a fiscal conservative. The only taxes he plans on "increasing", is he is going to take away the last cut that Bush put up. Remember. The one that put us 80 billion in the hole? He gets an A+ rating from the NRA. He is socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. Myself, I voted in the caucus last night, and I will vote for Clark in the primary.

Dean has momentum, because while all of the other democrats in the field were rolling over for Bush and his ridiculous policies, he was speaking against them. (All except Kucinich. Kucinich, for my vote, is one of the few good politicians left in this country). Dean is the favorite right now, because Democrats just want someone to beat Bush. Period. When it all comes down to it, if the nomination doesn't go to Clark, we get 4 more years of Cheney and his pet dog georgie.
eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.26
    Originally posted by PoorlyToldJoke
    Myself, I voted in the caucus last night, and I will vote for Clark in the primary.


Somebody call Mayor Daley!

(edited by eviljonhunt81 on 13.1.04 1204)


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DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
    Originally posted by PoorlyToldJoke
    Calling Dean a liberal has been a fantastic ploy by the right wing media at this point. The guy isn't anywhere near a liberal. He's a fiscal conservative. The only taxes he plans on "increasing", is he is going to take away the last cut that Bush put up. Remember. The one that put us 80 billion in the hole? He gets an A+ rating from the NRA. He is socially liberal, and fiscally conservative. Myself, I voted in the caucus last night, and I will vote for Clark in the primary.

    Dean has momentum, because while all of the other democrats in the field were rolling over for Bush and his ridiculous policies, he was speaking against them. (All except Kucinich. Kucinich, for my vote, is one of the few good politicians left in this country). Dean is the favorite right now, because Democrats just want someone to beat Bush. Period. When it all comes down to it, if the nomination doesn't go to Clark, we get 4 more years of Cheney and his pet dog georgie.


As a true liberal, especially on social issues, it continually amazes me that Dean is portrayed as a liberal. Huey Long and Goebbels would be proud as they espoused the philosophy of telling the big lie over and over with conviction. Eventually, the masses will believe. No, I am not calling anyone a Nazi. Both sides do it. The side part is the American voter allow themselves to be convinced without any thought or research.



Perception is reality
eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2985 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.26
Just to throw in more food for thought:

I find it very interesting that Dean isn't trying to disassociate himself with the liberal label. I think that the era of "liberal" being a bad word in politics may be coming to an end, and Dean sees this. Furthermore, the right branding him as a liberal would seem to have actually increased support for him among some liberals. I have a friend who has supported him for awhile, which suprised me as Dean isn't terribly liberal, but she is.



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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1266 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
What's more interesting(and I'd do moer if I wasn't posting from a dialup in a hotel room in Tampa Bay) is that Clark looks like he's got a decent shot of passing Dean before too much longer in NH.

So much for the big win in DC(not that anybody gave a shit about it)



PoorlyToldJoke
Longanisa








Since: 15.12.03
From: Cincinnati

Since last post: 3559 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.01
    Originally posted by Grimis
    What's more interesting(and I'd do moer if I wasn't posting from a dialup in a hotel room in Tampa Bay) is that Clark looks like he's got a decent shot of passing Dean before too much longer in NH.

    So much for the big win in DC(not that anybody gave a shit about it)



Clark beats Bush. He is probably the only one of the bunch. Kerry might. Edwards is probably a future fixture in presidential politics. Gebhardts time is over. As much as I love Kucinich, no chance in hell. Dean, while a decent candidate, loses in a wash. I think the right wing media has already Karl Roved him. He's ANGRY. Man is that guy Angry. Ol Angry Dean. Angry angry angry. Plus they have done a fantastic job of branding him a liberal, which Lieberman helped with quite a bit. Personally. I like Deans fire. I just wish he could be more intelligent while he is angry. Clark has some fire to him, but he never comes off as incoherant when he is pissed. I think Democrats should be pissed. I think half of these democrats should be pissed at themselves for rolling over for policies that they now want to deride, I would be pissed at the democratic leadership in the party (Nancy Pelosi, Tom Dachle, Hillary Clinton) for not being a stronger counterpoint to the conservative issues being pushed forth. The fact that John Ashcroft is the Attorney general means that the democrats weren't doing their job. They don't have to always fight. But there is a time to fight, and that was a battleground worth fighting on. They lost the midterm elections because they had no clear agenda. The Democratic party had no clear voice, and it hurt them.

If I were Clark, who is the man who I think will probably end up with the nomination, I would have a few words I would repeat. I would repeat the words Ashcroft, Patriot Act, Haliburton, Tax Cuts for the Wealthy, deficit, Iraq, Bin Laden, The Environment, and that bit with the CIA op leak (The name escapes me now) I would repeat these things like a mantra, because Bush is weak on all of them, He is strong with the religious, and the Rich. As a democrat, you don't win either of those. Democrats win when Women, the young, and minorities vote. Win those, win the election. DOn't tap the middle age white guy vote. His mind is made up.

If I were CLark, I would also consider very heavily picking Carol Mosely Braun as my VP. I hate to be a cynic, but that could swing a lot of women and minority votes.

Yay for long rambling dissertations.
ParagonOfVirtue
Salami








Since: 20.8.03
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 3321 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.54
It's amusing how a few days ago six of the top eight threads were Howard Dean threads, most of which were right wingers against him.

As for why people vote for Howard Dean, initially it was frustration with the Bush Administration. Dean was able to reflect that perfectly in the beginning. The problem is, he reflected that frustration for way too long, and had trouble turning that momentum into hope. That's when I was in the same dilemma as PoorlyToldJoke, where I believed Dean was too cornered by the right wing juggernaut to be able to beat Bush in '04. He had indeed been Karl Roved, and I too was leaning heavily on Wes Clark for President.

But that all changed last night. If anyone wants to see why people are supporting Howard Dean, you should have seen Dean in Iowa last night. He was ON FIRE. It definitely gave me hope in the man again. I'm still going to support whichever Democrat gets the nomination, particularily if Dean, Clark or Kerry get it, but in terms of specifics, last night put me right back into the Dean camp. I'd suggest for those disenchanted with the Dean campaign recently should check out his speech on C-SPAN's site because it was definitely a sight.
DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 5 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
The biggest problem I have with Clark is the Clinton Administration canned him for issues of character and integrity. What do you have to do for Clinton to question you on these issues?



Perception is reality
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.85
I'd have to say the numbers in Iowa look interesting. Not a big fan of Polls in Caucus elections, but Iowa is interesting, anyway. Big Dick Gephardt (I considered Dirty Dick Gephardt, but didn't want to piss off Slater) is gaining in the polling data close to the home turf, Kerry is gaining and Howard the Duck is losing. 7 points in the polls in a week.

Why? I dunno. I am from the midwest and I think the anger displayed by Dr. Dean is unsettling, at least. That may be the thing for him. I think that generally the war hero mode of John kerry and the hometown call of Gephardt are helping them out. I was surprised Clark wasn't doing better, even though he's not on the ballot. Clark and Lieberman did outpoll Sharpton and Braun.

What's all this mean? Is Howard Dean's Big Mo gone? I dunno. I compared this to the Royal Rumble at length on the site. The first guy in has a long way to go. Guys like Dean, Kerry and Gephardt, who've been running for a couple years already are warmed up, but the newer entrants, like Gen Clark, have a chance to put 'em over the top rope (whoa - there went the Democrat Ladies Champion, Clutchin' Carol, over the top rope. It looks like The Iron Geek, Dennis Kucinich is about to follow her..). Dean and Kerry and Gephardt have a chance to stay in to the end, but Clark, who came in later, is fresher and also had a chance.

The rest, to use a wrestling analogy, are jobbers.

I think after next week, we'll see the four horsemen emerge at the top, last four in the ring. The others may hang around for awhile, but it'll be

Dean - outsider, anti-war, angry,
Gephardt - experience, pretty, washington insider, midwesterner
Kerry - the same as above, except east-coaster and war hero
Clark - outsider, war hero, a Name

Then it'll get fun - just like it does in the last couple minutes of the Royal Rumble - after the jobbers have hit the floor



Rasslin' republicans - visit it soon
Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

Since last post: 3297 days
Last activity: 3290 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.40
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    The biggest problem I have with Clark is the Clinton Administration canned him for issues of character and integrity. What do you have to do for Clinton to question you on these issues?

LOL, it's like the old Dennis Miller joke asking how big a piece of druggie scum Steven Adler had to be in order for Guns and Roses to kick him out.

"Hey Slash, pull that heroin needle out of your c**k we've got to vote on Steve... and Axl, don't forget to pick up the crockpot you left at the group f**k at Savannah's last weekend."

Clark is easy pickin's if he was to get the nomination. The newest from Drudge is but one example of why.



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Von Maestro
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Since: 6.1.04
From: New York

Since last post: 222 days
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#19 Posted on
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    The biggest problem I have with Clark is the Clinton Administration canned him for issues of character and integrity. What do you have to do for Clinton to question you on these issues?


I'm not a Clark fan at all, but you could look at the Clinton administration's "issues of character & integrity" & conclude that the problem was he actually HAD some, & didn't fall in line with the rest of the bunch... ;-)
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 4 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.12
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    Clark is easy pickin's if he was to get the nomination. The newest from Drudge is but one example of why.


If the Democrats are looking for "pure" candidate - one that has always been consistent - they should stop voting Democrat.

He's been against the war long enough... and really, it comes down to Clark's minimal inconsistancies about war versus Bush's downright lies about why we were and are there... literally, the lesser of two evils.

I still say Clark - or Dean - has a shot.
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This reminds me of the response of many people whenever I cite studies by John Lott and Gary Kleck.
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