Unless Randy runs back to Raw next week like a bitch, we have a hot fued. Of course, unlike a regular fued where its clear who is face and heel, we have a decent gray area. Randy has not made friends on Raw, honestly with most of the fans either, so we have a new champ with no friends either face or heel against Evolution. The fans are starting to pop big time for Batista, Flair always gets a great reaction and of course, the HHH fanbase will be in full support. So, who do you think the WWE should choose to be face or heel, the cocky unseasoned new champ or two legends and a monster?
That's a tough one. Usually, the guy that's alone (Orton) who has to take on an army of guys (Evolution) is the good guy, but it'll be tough to take back some of the things he said. I'd go Orton as a face, but that's just me. And I think Triple H is 1,000 times better as a heel than face.
I disagree with the contention that Orton's not over with the crowd. He received bigger face pops against Benjamin, Edge, and his merch is Top Ten at Shopzone. There was also a significant pop when he won the title.
Putting Orton as the face is pretty easy, IMO (even though I like him more as a heel.) The crowd seemed pretty stunned, and it got a lot of talk at my office water cooler.
Plus, the fans won't accept HHH as a face. Batista only gets cheered in DC because it's his hometown, and the local media pushed it heavy. Or because a Toronto crowd turned on Edge. I heard no cheers for him last night.
Orton has been getting face pops because he talked all that shit and he's been RIGHT all the time. He almost always won when he said he would. It's hard to boo someone that wins all the time. Orton probably won't have any trouble shifting to babyface if he RKOs HHH out of nowhere or something.
The crowd popped pretty big when he hit the RKO and pinned Benoit, and they were pretty damn loud enjoying themselves when Evolution was celebrating along with him. I think most of us 'smarks who anticipated the beatdown were still enjoying the celebrating, as it went long enough to make at least me wonder if the beatdown I was expecting was going to come after all.
I think Orton has to become a face, but maybe the kind of face like Austin or Rocky who will still be disrespectful when called for.
Who to cheer for? How about neither? Boo them both. VKM is an idiot for pushing this angle so fast. This hand the making of the cool slow burn that Jericho and Rock had a couple of years ago that everyone loved. They could have stretched this out for a couple of months and had the crowd DYING for an Orton face turn. And when it happened, then the build up to Wrestlemania would have been awesome. But Vince fucks up another angle by pushing it too fast. So boo both of them.
I think the bigger issue is what can Randy orton pull off? I agree he is good as a cocky arrogant boy as I feel it suits his personality.
But to drop all that to become a face I am not so sure about. It can then come across as a whiny '' look at me ''
I would like to see Orton use his arrogance to go it alone and fight everyone ignoring advice from ''goodhearted '' people like Benoit and Regal until he realises he needs help and he needs to '' be a man'' .
Its a difficult thing to predict because unlike life wrestling has no grey areas so there needs to be good v bad face v heel .
Originally posted by WpobWho to cheer for? How about neither? Boo them both. VKM is an idiot for pushing this angle so fast. This hand the making of the cool slow burn that Jericho and Rock had a couple of years ago that everyone loved. They could have stretched this out for a couple of months and had the crowd DYING for an Orton face turn. And when it happened, then the build up to Wrestlemania would have been awesome. But Vince fucks up another angle by pushing it too fast. So boo both of them.
Patience is a virtue. We never truely know (even if its fairly obvious) the final outcome of ANYTHING because no one can see into the future. Give it time, and if it works, good. If not, too bad.
I'd like to share a...revelation I had, during my time here. It came to me when I tried to...classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but...you humans do not. You move to an area...and you multiply...until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to... spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is?
A virus. Humans beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet...and we...are the cure.
I know he was still a rookie at the time, but the last point where Orton was working pure babyface, the Un-Americans were almost getting face pops for beating him up. And that was during the time period where they were trying to burn American flags and they had the heat killing missile Test. In order for this to work, they will need to have Jim Ross toned down. If he reverts to Blue Chipper etc., this falls flat on its face. Also, if Orton wrestles Flair, it can't be in a former NWA/WCW city, or else they are in trouble. The scary thing is that Orton might need to leech heat off of Eugene in order to be accepted as a babyface.
The Public Demands: Replace the Star Spangled Banner with Brass Bonanza.
I must be the only person who heard alternating cheers and silence when Orton took an extended beatdown. No asshole chants, no chorus of boos, just fans seeing Randy get his comeuppance.
And from where does this fiction originate that Triple H sucks as a face. Just because he was booked in the debacle involving Stephanie and the dog, and just because he couldn't sustain a face reaction against HULK fucking Hogan (right after The Rock was soundly booed against him as well), it seems to be indisputable fact that Triple H can't be a face.
And yet, I remember QUITE WELL his run as a quasi-face before Austin's return, during the Kurt Angle Love Triangle. I recognize the fact that fans pop for his awesome entrance, and that they anticipate the Pedigree as much, if not more, than Undertaker's Last Ride. Is he an awesome heel? Sure. But we are just asking him to make us cheer Orton as an alternative to him, which is funny, because usually taht's the dynamic when a face is CHASING the title, not holding it. An undeserving heel champion can leech heat off an extended reign, but an undeserving face champion merely diminishes the belt. Any guess as to what camp I'm going to put Randy in?
Because he was boring, had no face offense, no face charisma, and tried to make lame catchphrases. Don't complain about how he was booked as a face because he was responsible for it.
He's said it himself, he sucks as a face.
In the world of kayfabe, Orton isn't undeserving. He beat Mick Foley by himself. He beat Chris Benoit by himself. He's gone over in every program for a year. Turn off the smark colored glasses. The fans see a guy going over everyone and they jump on the bandwagon.
Insensitive Funny Comment of the Week: "You don't buy prostitutes ... They're human beings! You rent them!" Artie Lange
Originally posted by madiqI must be the only person who heard alternating cheers and silence when Orton took an extended beatdown.
Yep, because I heard a lot of boos, virtually no cheers, and a woman screaming bloody murder as the beatdown went on, and silence at first is good because it means surprise. If fans instantly reacted to a swerve like that, then I'd be worried.
You are right, Flair does not suck. However, he just is boring to watch in so many matches. Save him, do not have him out there every week. It is time to go, maybe throw him another title on the way out. Those matches with Steamboat were 15 years ago and all he has done since is clown himself
When it comes to this feud...I'm going to have to cheer for Flair and Batista.
Flair? Because he's Flair! I need my crazy old man quota!
Batista? Because his goofy mannerisms have had me rolling in the aisles for weeks! I consider the "I'm not worthy" walk he did about a month or so ago one of the greatest moments in pro wrestling history. If only he could trash talk like only A-Train can...
Orton? Let's face it, you shouldn't be champ until you can DO YOUR FINISHER PROPERLY! I have yet to see a really great RKO. Until that happens, it just shatters the illusion for me.
Triple H? I'm on the internet! I can't cheer for Triple H! I'll lose my nerd cred! Really I'm getting to the point I MISS all his knee related offense... all he does now that's really spectacular is bleed.
Wow, that sounded a whole lot more negative than I wanted it to... Eh, whatca gonna do?
(edited by lmo911 on 20.8.04 2042) I knew it was too good to last...
Regarding why Punk didn't call out Holly, it sounds like, and this will be music to CRZ's ears, that Punk's push is being significantly scaled down. Meltzer is basically saying that after the whole Holly thing that he is out of favor with management.