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The W - Current Events & Politics - Who Should The Demos Run In 2004? (Page 3)
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#41 Posted on

    As for the Dems selecting a Hispanic candidate, from what I've heard, Bush might be thinking of a Hispanic conservative to take Scalia's seat on the Supreme Court once Scalia replaces a retiring Rehnquist. Interesting way to steal thunder, if ya ask me.


Good to know that Bush is getting his governing ideas from the West Wing.




I was born in a manger, like that other guy. You know, he wore a hat?
vacheroi
Chorizo








Since: 29.5.02

Since last post: 3782 days
Last activity: 3778 days
#42 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Jeez- Shall we just completely throw out the electoral college and completely disenfranchise every single voter who does not happen to live in a big city?


Well, why should your vote be worth several of my neighborhood's?

On the original topic: I'd vote Dem if they ran Sharpton. I know a whole lot of other people vote third party/don't vote who would also. It's probably not the most sound short term strategy but I personally don't know anyone left of Daschle who's planning to vote Democrat nationally in '04(or from that point on if things stay the same.)
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#43 Posted on
Well, I think Reverend Al gets a bad rap, but I ain't voting for the guy for president. And I'm to the left of Daschle.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 155 days
Last activity: 155 days
#44 Posted on
"Reverend" Al helps rig some story about Tawana Brawley being raped and beaten by a cop that turns out to be complete BS and he gets a bad rap? Al loses the lawsuit filed by that cop, then refuses to pay the cop what he owes him and he gets a bad rap? Al Sharpton is a joke and if the Dems ran him for President the Republicans would laugh all the way to the white house.


Edit: OOPS!! I guess I am stupid for not knowing that one of the guys was an ADA when 6 cops were accused of raping that liar. And I guess I'm stupid that I didn't know Sharpton's paychecks were garnished to provide $15,000 and that other businessmen paid the rest to end the controversy. I just knew Sharpton refused to pay (which is true). Sorry for being so stupid!!!!

(edited by Bizzle Izzle on 22.11.02 1108)

(edited by Bizzle Izzle on 22.11.02 1109)


Maiden RULES!!!
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#45 Posted on
Well, the Dems aren't going to nominate him, so don't worry.

When asked about the Tawana Brawley case, Al's position is essentially, whether right or wrong, that he's not going to apologize for believing a powerless teenage girl from "the community" over whitey, even if it turned out the girl was lying. I've always kind of admired the fact that if he would apologize for this he could go a lot farther in politics, but he's always stuck to his guns even though it's an incredibly unpopular position that's held him back.

Al (and the others) definitely exploited that whole scenario, hyped it up, used it to get on TV, and didn't fact-check at all. And I personaly wouldn't take any teenager's word for anything, considering the incredible loads of bullshit that came out of my mouth during those years, and think Al was really stupid for doing so. But it isn't like he masterminded the whole thing, then recruited Tawana Brawley to stuff herself in a garbage can.

It wasn't a cop, it was an ADA. And saying he's not paying him the judgement (he eventually did after some fund-raising) was really stupid.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#46 Posted on
    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Well, expect for...

      Nah, too easy.



    It's been two years since he lost; get over it already.



It's been over a year since the World Trade Center was attacked. Get over it already.

Same stupid arguement.

EDIT: And you know the point I'm making here, so don't pretend like you don't and attack me for saying we should forget about 9/11.

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 22.11.02 1123)
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1178 days
Last activity: 975 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by Grimis

        Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
        Well, expect for...

        Nah, too easy.



      It's been two years since he lost; get over it already.



    It's been over a year since the World Trade Center was attacked. Get over it already.

    Same stupid arguement.

    EDIT: And you know the point I'm making here, so don't pretend like you don't and attack me for saying we should forget about 9/11.

    (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 22.11.02 1123)



I can't beleive that there is a fucking person alive who thinks that Al Gore losing a fucking election is more important than an ACT OF WAR ON THE UNITED STATES.

Jesus christ I can barely type since I am so fucking irate from the stupidty of what you just said.



LIBERAL- adj: abundant, incapable, self-serving, racist, confiscatory, welfare-loving, anti-liberty, scrooge-like, indulgent, lavish, unprincipled, closed-minded, philanthropic with other peoples money, big-government loving, selfish, uptight, unrealisitc, unenlightened, discriminatory, totalitarian, partial, strict, overpermissive, intolerant, biased, bigoted, prejudiced
-------Real-life experience
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#48 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
        Originally posted by Grimis

          Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
          Well, expect for...

          Nah, too easy.



        It's been two years since he lost; get over it already.



      It's been over a year since the World Trade Center was attacked. Get over it already.

      Same stupid arguement.

      EDIT: And you know the point I'm making here, so don't pretend like you don't and attack me for saying we should forget about 9/11.

      (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 22.11.02 1123)



    I can't beleive that there is a fucking person alive who thinks that Al Gore losing a fucking election is more important than an ACT OF WAR ON THE UNITED STATES.

    Jesus christ I can barely type since I am so fucking irate from the stupidty of what you just said.



See, this is why I went back and re-edited my post to make it perfectly clear exactly what I was talking about, but I knew damn well that you still would pretend to not see my point so you didn't have to adress it and instead choose to pretend I said something else entirely.

My point was that the passage of time doesn't suddenly make an event unimportant. I'd think that would be clear to someone who pretends to be as intelligent as you do, but I guess not.



LIBERAL - adj: abundant, ample, bounteous, copious, lavish, plentiful, big-hearted, bountiful, charitable, free, generous, indulgent, lavish, magnanimous, munificent, open-handed, philanthropic, unselfish, unstinting, broad-minded, easygoing, enlightened, fair-minded, humanitarian, impartial, lenient, magnanimous, open-minded, permissive, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unprejudiced
-------Oxford Paperback Thesaurus
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#49 Posted on
I'm still pissed about the Hayes stealing the election from Tilden in 1876.



Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1178 days
Last activity: 975 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    See, this is why I went back and re-edited my post to make it perfectly clear exactly what I was talking about, but I knew damn well that you still would pretend to not see my point so you didn't have to adress it and instead choose to pretend I said something else entirely.

    My point was that the passage of time doesn't suddenly make an event unimportant. I'd think that would be clear to someone who pretends to be as intelligent as you do, but I guess not.



I don't think so. And even if you did try to make a point, it's perfectly easy to fail when you write something so incendiary that your point no longer mattered.

And then you insult my intelligence because you decided to write something completely asinine to make a point.

This is why you cannot generally have an argument with a liberal...



LIBERAL- adj: abundant, incapable, self-serving, racist, confiscatory, welfare-loving, anti-liberty, scrooge-like, indulgent, lavish, unprincipled, closed-minded, philanthropic with other peoples money, big-government loving, selfish, uptight, unrealisitc, unenlightened, discriminatory, totalitarian, partial, strict, overpermissive, intolerant, biased, bigoted, prejudiced
-------Real-life experience
TheCow
Landjager








Since: 3.1.02
From: Knoxville, TN

Since last post: 2359 days
Last activity: 2358 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#51 Posted on
Hey, I have had many a civil argument with a conservative before. It can happen - we're not all crazy, you know.

Moe, that was wrong on so mnay levels... still funny, nonetheless. Stupid payoffs.







Which Neglected Mario Character Are You?

vacheroi
Chorizo








Since: 29.5.02

Since last post: 3782 days
Last activity: 3778 days
#52 Posted on

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Well, the Dems aren't going to nominate him, so don't worry.

    When asked about the Tawana Brawley case, Al's position is essentially, whether right or wrong, that he's not going to apologize for believing a powerless teenage girl from "the community" over whitey, even if it turned out the girl was lying. I've always kind of admired the fact that if he would apologize for this he could go a lot farther in politics, but he's always stuck to his guns even though it's an incredibly unpopular position that's held him back.

    Al (and the others) definitely exploited that whole scenario, hyped it up, used it to get on TV, and didn't fact-check at all. And I personaly wouldn't take any teenager's word for anything, considering the incredible loads of bullshit that came out of my mouth during those years, and think Al was really stupid for doing so. But it isn't like he masterminded the whole thing, then recruited Tawana Brawley to stuff herself in a garbage can.

    It wasn't a cop, it was an ADA. And saying he's not paying him the judgement (he eventually did after some fund-raising) was really stupid.



I suppose I wouldn't hire him for my rape investigation department. But honestly, I don't care.

What I do care about is anti-gay bashing laws, health care, fair use and no war. I'm not some hippie squatter, I'm a fairly well off small business owner. I know a lot of people like me and neither me or them are voting Democrat nationally no matter how close to sainthood they are if they don't address these issues.
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 155 days
Last activity: 155 days
#53 Posted on
"My point was that the passage of time doesn't suddenly make an event unimportant. I'd think that would be clear to someone who pretends to be as intelligent as you do, but I guess not."


I just think it was a horrible analogy in the first place. You can't really compare a terrorist attack that killed 3000 people and traumatised the nation to an election that, however "controversial" followed the rule of election law (unless you are Alec Baldwin). I think a better analogy would be to say that you lefties haven't gotten over the election like I haven't gotten over the Devil's losing the damn Cup in 2001. Talk about demoralizing...




Maiden RULES!!!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1225 days
Last activity: 24 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#54 Posted on

    Originally posted by vacheroi

      Originally posted by Pool-Boy
      Jeez- Shall we just completely throw out the electoral college and completely disenfranchise every single voter who does not happen to live in a big city?


    Well, why should your vote be worth several of my neighborhood's?

    On the original topic: I'd vote Dem if they ran Sharpton. I know a whole lot of other people vote third party/don't vote who would also. It's probably not the most sound short term strategy but I personally don't know anyone left of Daschle who's planning to vote Democrat nationally in '04(or from that point on if things stay the same.)



OOOKK... time for a little civics lesson...
Votes count EXACTLY the same... this is a fact.
HOWEVER, we live in a multi-tiered Democracy. To simplify it, we have local, State, and Federal governments.
The local government handles all the issues that affect your city.
State governments are akin to small nations. Constitutionally- that is the way they are supposed to be.
The Federal Governments is outlined in the constitution as a glorified alliance between States. The President of the United States (gee... it is even in the name of our nation!) is akin to a Secretary General of the U.N., only with real power.
When you vote for President, you are not DIRECTLY voting for President. You are voting for who your STATE will cast its electoral votes for. A state gets "a number of electors equal to the combined total of its Senate membership (two for each state) and House of Representatives delegation (currently ranging from one to 52, depending on population)." Hence, states with larger populations get more votes.
Most states cast all of their votes for the canditate who wins in their state, but some split their votes proportionatly.
STATES vote for the President of the United STATES, not a direct tally of the popular vote. This was the way our government was designed in the Constitution, and it works. What is the point of a state like Iowa even bothering to vote when New York, Texas, and California are going to completely dominate elections because of their populations alone! Without the electoral college, States like Iowa, Montana, and Rhode Island have no reason to participate in this alliance of states that we have.
If you disagree, and feel that the constitution is wrong in this matter, I can understand that. However... most of you people who are complaining that Gore won the popular vote and that it is wrong that Bush still won are the same people that attacked ME unmercilessly when I argued against something in the constitution. I will now say the same things to you-
It is in the constitution. That is the way we run our government. If you do not like it, tough.
Before you start going nuts again about how Gore should have won because of the popular vote, I suggest you learn a little about the Electoral College, its history and purpose, before you blindly attack it.




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
vacheroi
Chorizo








Since: 29.5.02

Since last post: 3782 days
Last activity: 3778 days
#55 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy



    we live in a multi-tiered Democracy


The word you're looking for is republic, btw.

I specifically quoted the part of your post that I was responding to. Namely the part where you ask whether we should do away with the Electoral College and some hyperbole about disenfranchisement. I don't recall supporting anyone who "attacked [YOU] mercilessly." Just stating my opinion in regards to your question. We are here to share opinions, correct?

FWIW, I might care about states' rights a little more if the federal government didn't go and overrule things like medicinal marijuana that states passed resolutions about.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
AIM:  
#56 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      See, this is why I went back and re-edited my post to make it perfectly clear exactly what I was talking about, but I knew damn well that you still would pretend to not see my point so you didn't have to adress it and instead choose to pretend I said something else entirely.

      My point was that the passage of time doesn't suddenly make an event unimportant. I'd think that would be clear to someone who pretends to be as intelligent as you do, but I guess not.



    I don't think so. And even if you did try to make a point, it's perfectly easy to fail when you write something so incendiary that your point no longer mattered.

    And then you insult my intelligence because you decided to write something completely asinine to make a point.

    This is why you cannot generally have an argument with a liberal...



Honestly...

The point was to say something totally outlandish and, I thought, obviously not true or something that anyone believes as an analogy to your "It was two years ago. It doesn't matter.". That's a stupid argument, no matter what you're talking about.

And, for the record, I don't think you're stupid - you're certainly not as smart as you think you are, but then again, no human being who's ever lived is as smart as you think you are.



LIBERAL - adj: abundant, ample, bounteous, copious, lavish, plentiful, big-hearted, bountiful, charitable, free, generous, indulgent, lavish, magnanimous, munificent, open-handed, philanthropic, unselfish, unstinting, broad-minded, easygoing, enlightened, fair-minded, humanitarian, impartial, lenient, magnanimous, open-minded, permissive, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unprejudiced
-------Oxford Paperback Thesaurus
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1225 days
Last activity: 24 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#57 Posted on

    Originally posted by vacheroi

      Originally posted by Pool-Boy



      we live in a multi-tiered Democracy


    The word you're looking for is republic, btw.

    I specifically quoted the part of your post that I was responding to. Namely the part where you ask whether we should do away with the Electoral College and some hyperbole about disenfranchisement. I don't recall supporting anyone who "attacked [YOU] mercilessly." Just stating my opinion in regards to your question. We are here to share opinions, correct?

    FWIW, I might care about states' rights a little more if the federal government didn't go and overrule things like medicinal marijuana that states passed resolutions about.


You'll get no argument from me on the federal government pushing the state governments around... between medical marijuana, drinking age and holding funds for schools/roads hostage to get what they want, the Federal Government has grown WAY to powerful.




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#58 Posted on
In regards to Gore "losing" in 2000...why wouldn't people be upset? This is the presidency of the United States; if I had "lost" in such a controversial fashion, I'd be pissed too.

Look at it this way: had Gore won over Bush in the same way, would you still be talking about it?



    When asked about the Tawana Brawley case, Al's position is essentially, whether right or wrong, that he's not going to apologize for believing a powerless teenage girl from "the community" over whitey, even if it turned out the girl was lying. I've always kind of admired the fact that if he would apologize for this he could go a lot farther in politics, but he's always stuck to his guns even though it's an incredibly unpopular position that's held him back.

    Al (and the others) definitely exploited that whole scenario, hyped it up, used it to get on TV, and didn't fact-check at all. And I personaly wouldn't take any teenager's word for anything, considering the incredible loads of bullshit that came out of my mouth during those years, and think Al was really stupid for doing so. But it isn't like he masterminded the whole thing, then recruited Tawana Brawley to stuff herself in a garbage can.

    It wasn't a cop, it was an ADA. And saying he's not paying him the judgement (he eventually did after some fund-raising) was really stupid.


The Law & Order episode about this was pretty interesting.




I was born in a manger, like that other guy. You know, he wore a hat?
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AWArulz, agreed. I too was a little put off by the cry-a-thon they held on ABC or whatever the fuck station they went on and just basically tried to cry their way out of the hole they dug for themselves.
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